Altering a Miroku Winchester?

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Canuck Bob
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Altering a Miroku Winchester?

#1 Post by Canuck Bob » Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:04 pm

I am looking to discuss Browning parts to completely eliminate the tang safety and complicated rebound trigger assembly. Someone recently reported swapping out a huge pile of dainty parts for a couple of Browning parts to return a Winchester to the original style half cock safety and original trigger parts. I failed to bookmark.

My interest is in a Miroku Winchester Deluxe Takedown 92 long rifle in 32-20.

I cannot use Steve being a Canadian and if I tackle this change I might use a gunsmith but not without careful instructions and detailed parts acquisitions. Oddly enough the tang safety does not concern me but the overly complicated trigger and sear arrangement does. I am already considering the widely published rebound hammer strut mods but thought that maybe a few parts could just eliminate the whole issue.

The first set of questions is receiver pivot points and pin sizes compatibility?
Can the trigger be simplified and the safety left alone?
Which parts to pull and what parts to buy?
Proper way to cover the tang safety hole if deleted (ie. welding method and rod used)?

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Re: Altering a Miroku Winchester?

#2 Post by JayF in AZ » Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:39 pm

I'm interested in this too, for my Winroku 86. I wonder if a tang sight would completely cover the safety slot?

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Re: Altering a Miroku Winchester?

#3 Post by 7.62 Precision » Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:43 pm

I have done it on an 1886 Winchester. I have photos of the process, it is easy. If you cannot find a Browning hammer, the Winchester hammer might need to be altered.

The 94 Winchesters are a bit different, and so are the '95s. Not sure how easy it is on a '92, but likely similar to the 86?

The right sight base will cover the safety slot on the 1886.

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Re: Altering a Miroku Winchester?

#4 Post by Pete44ru » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:49 pm

.

IIRC, The subject used to be in an article in the "Winchester Resources" on our old home page ( http://www.leverguns.com ) - but the link to http://web.tampabay.rr.com/jimstags/win1892/index.htm results in a "cannot display web page" error message, so perhaps the source's web site is no more.


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Re: Altering a Miroku Winchester?

#5 Post by Malamute » Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:14 pm

I did my Miroku 92 with Browning parts. It was relatively easy, but theres one old hole in the lower tang that needs to be welded up (or ignored) and one drilled for the Browning spring seat base.

The new hammer would have to be grooved on the side to get the tang safety to work.

The regular Lyman tang sight will cover the slot, the front screw hole will be in the recess, but I think I'm going to have a silver plate made and have my initials engraved on it, like Ji did with bone on his 94. They can be welded up, but I was told it can cause complications refinishing with the gold on mine.

I like mine converted, but altering, or more correctly, adjusting the rebound to operate reliably wouldn't be very difficult, and would be much cheaper and simpler. Not sure if I'd go to the trouble again unless parts were cheap and easy to get. The trigger can be simplified fairly easily I think, and eliminate a couple small parts.

Rossi parts may work also. I think Steve mentioned that once.
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Re: Altering a Miroku Winchester?

#6 Post by Nate Kiowa Jones » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:09 am

Malamute wrote:I did my Miroku 92 with Browning parts. It was relatively easy, but theres one old hole in the lower tang that needs to be welded up (or ignored) and one drilled for the Browning spring seat base.

The new hammer would have to be grooved on the side to get the tang safety to work.

The regular Lyman tang sight will cover the slot, the front screw hole will be in the recess, but I think I'm going to have a silver plate made and have my initials engraved on it, like Ji did with bone on his 94. They can be welded up, but I was told it can cause complications refinishing with the gold on mine.

I like mine converted, but altering, or more correctly, adjusting the rebound to operate reliably wouldn't be very difficult, and would be much cheaper and simpler. Not sure if I'd go to the trouble again unless parts were cheap and easy to get. The trigger can be simplified fairly easily I think, and eliminate a couple small parts.

Rossi parts may work also. I think Steve mentioned that once.
Yes, the Rossi hammer, hammer strut and trigger will work, but none of these parts browning or Rossi are drop-in. To get the most from the conversion the inertia firing pin should be change to a full length original style, too.
That was how this one was done.

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Re: Altering a Miroku Winchester?

#7 Post by medicdave » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:43 am

Would a browning 71 hammer work if an 86 wasn't availible?

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Re: Altering a Miroku Winchester?

#8 Post by AJMD429 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:52 am

Before 'welding up' a hole, I'd just put a filler-screw in it if possible.
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Re: Altering a Miroku Winchester?

#9 Post by 7.62 Precision » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:49 pm

medicdave wrote:Would a browning 71 hammer work if an 86 wasn't availible?
The original Winchester 71 hammer is a bit different, not sure about the Browning. The original Miroku Win. hammer can work by cutting a true half-cock notch. For looks, the slot on the side of the hammer for the safety bar should be closed.

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Re: Altering a Miroku Winchester?

#10 Post by jjames » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:08 pm

I did my Winchester 1886. It was pretty straight forward other than having an issue with either the new browning hammer or the slot in the tang for the hammer. After fully assembling the rifle with browning parts, the bolt would not lever fully back. Upon inspection the hammer would not drop low enough for the bolt to slide across it. After much discussion with the folks I bought the parts from we really couldn't determine what was out of spec but you could definitely see a small difference in the original hammer and the browning hammer. I ended up having my machinist relieve the back side of the browning hammer rather than messing with the slot in the tang. Works like a charm now

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Re: Altering a Miroku Winchester?

#11 Post by SamL Colt » Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:25 am

Hello being new to the form, I would like to ask if anyone knows what type of metal the Miroku Winchester receivers are made of. I want to weld up the tang safety and then color case harden the receiver so the metal must match.
Also where can I get the parts to replace the hammer, trigger, and firing pin?
I appreciate the help gentlemen!
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Re: Altering a Miroku Winchester?

#12 Post by AJMD429 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:29 am

Welcome to the forum, and thanks for refreshing an interesting topic I had missed. I don't own any of the rebounding Winchestersor Japchesters, but may someday.
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Re: Altering a Miroku Winchester?

#13 Post by Pete44ru » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:16 am

SamL Colt wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:25 am
Hello being new to the form, I would like to ask if anyone knows what type of metal the Miroku Winchester receivers are made of. I want to weld up the tang safety and then color case harden the receiver so the metal must match.
Also where can I get the parts to replace the hammer, trigger, and firing pin?
I appreciate the help gentlemen!
SamL Colt
Welcome to the fire !

The Miroku/Winchester receivers are made of drop-forged steel, just like the Winchester & Rossi Model 92/1892/86/1886 rifles.

I would suggest re-reading some of the earlier replies in this thread, then surfing the various Winchester/Browning parts vendor's website for the parts you will need.


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IF IN THESE TYMES OF JEOPARDY,
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Re: Altering a Miroku Winchester?

#14 Post by Mossyoak1957 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:36 pm

Here is a picture of my 1886 Miroku/Winchester safety delete filler.

The ugly safety bothered me more then the re-bounding hammer I left that be.

CLICK ON THE LINK TO SEE IT
https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/servic ... 34/enhance

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Re: Altering a Miroku Winchester?

#15 Post by SamL Colt » Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:15 pm

Hello Pete44ru, I have spent hours reading old posts surfing the web people talk about welding up the tang safety but no one ever tells what kind of metal they used. Maybe I am just too old school but have searched for parts online all to no avail. They are either out of business or do not have the parts.
I have emailed Steve at Steve’s guns to ask him about buying parts and called. The number has been disconnected but his web site is still up. On most older post the links no liner work and most all phone numbers disconnected.
I have been tig welding for 30 years and been a Gun smith but unfortunately I mainly just make machine guns. My true passion is old Winchester’s and old Colts. If others Can do this then I know I can too. My best friend finally pushed me to just do the conversions and finish work myself and paid me to make him the first Samuel Colt Walker Custom. So that is what made me decide to follow my dream and make things I love instead of just more machineguns. I am just looking for the correct type of metal so the plug and filler rod can match for color case hardening. I do polishing bluing etc. I have seen Steve’s beautiful work and own a couple Turnbull (one 1886 & one 1873 with custom barrel lengths etc.). So I know I can do this if I can find out they type of metal in the receiver to match and find a source for the browning or Rossi parts.
I really appreciate any help with this endeavor.
Thank you all in advance, I will post pictures of the work before during and after if anyone is interested later.
Samuel Colt Walker
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Re: Altering a Miroku Winchester?

#16 Post by SamL Colt » Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:21 pm

Mossyoak1957. Nice plug. Where did you find that? The bluing appears to match! Or did you make it? I want to find or make a plug like that but tig weld it in. I just want it to be of the correct metal. I will then Polish it to 600 grit and color case harden the receiver finger lever hammer and butt plate. So looking for the actual receiver material to match the receiver.
I am a perfectionist so it drives me nuts when things are not perfect! Lol.
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Re: Altering a Miroku Winchester?

#17 Post by Mossyoak1957 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:50 pm

SamL Colt wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:21 pm
Mossyoak1957. Nice plug. Where did you find that? The bluing appears to match! Or did you make it? I want to find or make a plug like that but tig weld it in. I just want it to be of the correct metal. I will then Polish it to 600 grit and color case harden the receiver finger lever hammer and butt plate. So looking for the actual receiver material to match the receiver.
I am a perfectionist so it drives me nuts when things are not perfect! Lol.
The guy I just bought the gun from actually builds gatling guns for Colt he is a Retired Master machinist he made the filler plug.

If you want his number let me know I'm sure he can lead you in the right direction,he is a heck of a nice guy and loves to talk guns.

Here is the Gatling guns he builds: Click on links
https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/servic ... 39/enhance
https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/servic ... 62/enhance

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Re: Altering a Miroku Winchester?

#18 Post by Poohgyrr » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:48 pm

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Re: Altering a Miroku Winchester?

#19 Post by SamL Colt » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:15 pm

Thank you so much Gentlemen! I do appreciate the help.
Oh my,when I sold my explosives company I wanted to buy one of his 1877 Gatling gun bulldogs! But my wife was addiment it would end up being a decoration in our living room so not just no but hell no! Our house could already be a museum with all the antique guns decorating the walls. Lol! The man who builds those Gatling guns, his work is impeccable! I am a perfectionist so I appreciate quality work!
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Re: Altering a Miroku Winchester?

#20 Post by SamL Colt » Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:57 pm

Missy oak I would love to get the Gatling gun builders info and talk to him.
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Re: Altering a Miroku Winchester?

#21 Post by crs » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:51 pm

To all the multitudes of owners of Miroku/Winchester 1886 rifles whom are bothered by the tang safety and other such things:

I bought my Miroku/Winchester 1886 .45-90 TD with 26 inch octagon barrel to shoot and to hunt with. Specifically to see what it could do versus a 1886 .45-70 AND to see if it would make a good elephant gun; it scored high on both counts.
Having shot double shotguns for decades, the tang safety was a HO - Hum to me (machts Nichts), but the 11 pound trigger pull was a real problem. $100 bought me an action slick up job (so it felt well broken in), a 4 pound trigger pull, and a reliable hammer strike that always set off the primer. This was done by a local man that tuned 1886 rifles for cowboy action shooting.

Viola! It worked and the rifle has been perfect ever since/for years now. It has been hunted hard by me and by 86er who took an elephant, leopard, and multiple cape buffalo with it. I am satisfied with the rifle as it has met all my expectations and killed everything we shot. BTW, it is also fun to shoot targets with from time to time.

So, I bought a hunting rifle to do certain things and it did the job.
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My question is, why did you buy a Miroku 1886? You know that it can never be an original Winchester and therefore not a collector item in our lifetimes.
Why not just tune it and shoot it and hunt with it? If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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Re: Altering a Miroku Winchester?

#22 Post by Griff » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:07 pm

Image Sam'l Colt, Welcome to THE Forum. Steve's Gunz is still in business, but he'sd moved from down by Orange, TX up north of Austin. Got to his "contact" page and fill out the form. I think that'll still get you in touch with him.
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Re: Altering a Miroku Winchester?

#23 Post by SamL Colt » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:02 pm

Gentlemen always nice to hear the feed back. I filled out the contact info at Steve’s guns a couple days ago. Still hope to be able to talk to him soon. I love his work having seen a couple of his Rossi 92s in person.
As to the question why, by CRS, I like functioning works of art, I like things that are customized! It gives me great personal satisfaction to finish projects. I drive a plain Jane stock 1997 F250 heavy duty ford truck. a customized truck is not important to me just a reliable well maintained truck. However my antique guns are my passion and working on them gives me more pleasure than anything. All the Winchester’s I have worked on in the past have been originals but this is my first go at refinishing a reproduction. To be able to make a work of art that shoots and shoots well that is the goal. If it was not popular or desirable then companies like Turnbull restorations would not be in business. It isn’t for everyone and not everyone’s cup of tea and that is ok!
I am not trying to make it an original but just make a work of art that functions like John Moses Browning intended and not how some left wing liberal lawyer says should work! Sounds like you like your rifle like I like my truck, reliable but true to how you bought it. Nothing wrong with either way, just personal preferences! Hope that explains it and everyone does what makes them happy in things they are passionate about.
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Re: Altering a Miroku Winchester?

#24 Post by vancelw » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:42 am

crs wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:51 pm
To all the multitudes of owners of Miroku/Winchester 1886 rifles whom are bothered by the tang safety and other such things:
It bother us because we know what we like...and those aren't on the list.
It always amuses me to see the multitude of people who want to "convince" us that we are wrong for knowing what we know and like.

Plus...part of gun-loving is trading and upgrading. If I have something I don't like, I sell it and replace it with something I do like.
The hunt is part of the fun.
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