Good Gunsmith for Winchester 92 Rebarrel?

[lcrken]

I just picked up a Win 92 in 32-20 that is in very nice condition, except the bore is really worn, almost no lands left. Can anyone recommend a gunsmith who can fit a new octagon barrel to it? Someone here in Southern California would be nice, but I'm happy to ship it anywhere I can find someone I can trust to do it right.

Ken

[Pete44ru]

.

Welcome to our corner of the www, Ken - We hope you'll stay awhile & chat about your project (Pics help).

You can do no better than another leverguns forum member, who happens to be the pre-eminent Model 92 gunsmith in the USA - http://www.stevesgunz.com

Steve, aka: Nate "Kiowa" Jones, is the real deal, and you won't get screwed, on either the work quality or cost.

Just an idea, though.......... Some older guns have been shot extensively with cast boolits, filling the rifling grooves enough to fool many into thinking the rifling's "gone".

Have you tried a vigorous bore scrubbing with the proper lead solvents & brush ?

If you haven't, you just might be able to save yourself enough to shoot yourself silly.

Of course, if you REALLY want an octagon bbl, then there's no saving you.



.

[Terry Murbach]

IF THAT '92 RIFLE IS AS NICE AS YOU MAKE IT SOUND I WOULD NOT---NOT !!!---CHANGE THE BARREL, I WOULD HAVE IT RELINED IN IT'S ORIGINAL CALIBER. RELINING WORKS BEAUTIFULLY !!

[Rusty]

Try cleaning it well and shooting it as is first. It might work as it.

And welcome to the board.

[JerryB]

Ken, welcome to the best forum on the web. A 92 32wcf is the finest of the Winchesters made. I have one made in 1917 that I bought from an uncle in the early 1950's. Several years ago it started keyholeing and was not very accurate. I tried changing my loads and it did not help. Kirk from up in Ontario help me through a cleaning process that did the trick. Don't do anything to that rifle barrel yet. Have you shot it yet? Try cast and jacketed bullets too.
Cleaning the barrel is possible, use a good bore cleaner and get some 0000 steel wool. Wrap some around a bore brush and start scrubbing, you'll see lead on the brush. The steel wool will not ruin your bore. It may take some time but it is worth the effort. It sure made a difference in my rifle. My best load is an 85grain XTP HP over some 5744 powder. Good luck with your rifle and don't give up on it yet.

[mack]

Sounds like some real sound advice here. A re-barrel is the last resort. How the bore "looks" doesn't matter, how the target looks is another story. I would try every cleaning I could think of, every load, a re-crown maybe, then re-lining, and as a last resort a new barrel. They don't make them like that anymore and I wouldn't want to change anything on it I didn't have to.

[Ysabel Kid]

IF THAT '92 RIFLE IS AS NICE AS YOU MAKE IT SOUND I WOULD NOT---NOT !!!---CHANGE THE BARREL, I WOULD HAVE IT RELINED IN IT'S ORIGINAL CALIBER. RELINING WORKS BEAUTIFULLY !!

Hi Terry -

I have a 92 in .25-20 WCF in much the same condition as Ken's .32-20. Who would you recommend for a re-lining?

Ken - welcome to the forum?

[jdad]

John Taylor does near invisible relines using TJ Match Grade liners. www.johntaylormachine.com

this is a Marlin 1893 (38-55) he relined. Can you see it?

[Ysabel Kid]

John Taylor does near invisible relines using TJ Match Grade liners. http://www.johntaylormachine.com

this is a Marlin 1893 (38-55) he relined. Can you see it?

Nope; can't see it! Thanks!!!

[M. M. Wright]

I had my 92 in 32WCF relined a few years ago. Was done by Williams gun shop in Tahlequah OK. using a Redman's liner. Very accurate and it retains all the original markings on the barrel. I did end up having Steve Young slick up the action so it would feed perfectly. My "go to" gun when I walk out the door for just about anything. You'd probably be money ahead by letting Steve do the reline and action work. He's just the best on 92s. (not bad on SAA either)

[williamranks]

I've got a '92 here in 25-20 with a replacement barrel from 1929.
When I bought it the rifling was almost nonexistent but after 3 treatments with Blue Wonder, letting it soak between treatments, and a lot of LeadAway cloth it now has good deep rifling.
What looked like a worn out barrel was full of soft lead.

[Modoc ED]

This guy has been spoken of highly by some on the forum in the past.



Don't know if he's still around but it would be worth a shot (no pun intended) to try and get in contact with him.

[lcrken]

Thanks for the friendly welcome and all the helpful replies. I do intend to take it out to the range and try it out before doing anything to it, hopefully this Monday. I hadn't thought about cleaning it first, because the bore looks really clean and shiney, but I suppose it could look that way if leaded and recently cleaned. In any case, I'll scrub it first, just in case. I'll post my results from the range.

If I do need to have it worked on, the liner idea appeals to me. The rifle has a really nice blue turned to brown finish, which I would be happy to keep. Lining would also save me from the extra labor cost involved in getting a new octagon barrel fitted. It has the 26" octagon barrel now, and I want to keep that appearance.

I bought the rifle mostly for short range silhouette competition in the cowboy rifle pistol cartridge class, which I've been shooting with a modern Winchester 94 in .45 Colt. I think the 32-20 has more accuracy potential than the .45, and I also like the idea of using a rifle with some history to it.

Ken

[lcrken]

And thanks to JerryB for the reloading advice. I just bought a set of 32-20 dies, and I already have a box of 85 grain XTPs and a box of 115 grain cast bullets I bought recently, and a fair amount of 5744 left. All I'm waiting for now is some cases I have on backorder from Starline. I found one box of 32-20 on the shelf at Cabellas in Reno while I was passing through, so I can at least see how well it shoots without waiting for brass.

Ken

[lcrken]

So I took the rifle to the range today with a box of Remington factory cast bullet ammo. I'd already cleaned the bore thoroughly, and found it was as many of you had suggested. There was still leading in it. After a long session with a bronze brush, I can see all the rifling, but it's pretty faint. It still looks pretty worn, although shiny, and pushing a lead slug through it reveals tight and loose sections. It was fun to shoot, but can't say I'm impressed with the accuracy. From a rest, I fired 25 rounds, and only 9 were in an 8" circle. The group size for all 25 was something like 15". The buck horn sights aren't the greatest for my eyes, but I don't think that was a very significant factor. I shoot a couple or other leverguns with similar sights and get 100 yd groups in the 3 - 4" range. I plan to fit a tang aperture sight, but I don't think that will magically make the rifle more accurate. I'm pretty sure at this point that I'll be sending the rifle off to be relined. The trigger is nice, but the lever action leaves something to be desired. It takes two strokes on the lever to load a round, a short one to pop the cartridge up, than a slight back off on the lever and a full stroke to seat it. I'll get someone like Steve to go through the action as well as putting in a liner. I plan to shoot this rifle regularly, so it's worth it to me to get it properly sorted.

Ken

[Mike Armstrong]

+1 on relining. One big advantage is you can keep the original barrel markings. And making a barrel for a '92 involves a lot of work....expensive work. Not as simple as a bolt action or a single shot, for sure.

I've had a .25-20 relined as well as a .38-40, and they came back perfect. I used Mark Beinke (says his name the German way, BEN-kah) in Klamath Falls, OR; his company was Beinke and Beinke. Not sure if he's still in business, but worth a try.

A .32-20 can be VERY accurate, and is always fun to shoot.

[lcrken]

Latest status update. Steve has a one year backlog, and I don't want to wait that long. He recommended John Taylor, and I've sent him an email to see what his schedule looks like. At worst, I'll do it myself (I have a nice machine shop out back), but I'd have to spend almost as much for the liner, drills, and chambering reamer as Steve charges, so I'd much rather have it done by someone who has done a lot of them and already has the tools. I guess my other option is to look for another lever gun in 32-20 that isn't so worn, like maybe a more modern Marlin or Browning, if I can find one. It's always good to have an excuse for gun shopping.

Ken

[lcrken]

Just heard from John Taylor. He also has a one year backlog. It's looking more and like I might have to do it myself, or find another 32-20.

Ken

[Tycer]

Shoot Yance a PM. He did mine and it was his first. Maybe he can give you some pointers. Turned out great.

[jdad]

Just heard from John Taylor. He also has a one year backlog. It's looking more and like I might have to do it myself, or find another 32-20.

Ken

Wow! I've never had more than about a 6 week turnaround, for any type of smithing, from John. I guess the word has gotten out about the quality, of his work.

[Griff]

and Welcome to THE Forum. Sounds like a great little rifle you found there. You might be surprised at how much leading could still be in that barrel. I know I got a .30-30 that had probably NEVER been cleaned, and between lead, copper and powder fouling, it appeared as tho' it didn't have any grooves left! It took far to many cleaning sessions to clean that I care to count. Some ol' gun crank told me to keep cleaning after he looked at it... And it finally came around.

And if you're willing to tackle the re-line, then the action work is probably well within your skillset. Look over Maruader's Rifle Tune-ups, and maybe order Steve's DVD. While both of those are geared the Rossi clone of the Winchester, they're enough alike that tips for one, will generally apply to the other.

In your, specific "hiccup" where you have what sounds like I'd describe as a need to "double clutch" the lever in order to feed the round, you may check the carrier screws and the carrier screw holes for more than appreciable wear. Could also be wear on the lever itself.

[lcrken]

That's good advice, Griff. I spent a lot of time with Hoppes and bronze brushes, but I suppose there could still be some lead left. I'll work on it some more and give it another try before doing anything drastic.

Ken

[Malamute]

I dont think Hoppes and bronze brushes are up to a truly severly leaded bore, or at best, it may take a prohibitively long time. One of the foaming bore cleaners, or better yet, one of the electronic bore cleaners may be whats called for.

One friend had a 1917 US Enfield that had a trashed bore, he worked it over a half dozen times with foaming cleaner and it came out to be a decent bore. The results from some guys with the electronic cleaners has been pretty dramatic at times also.

Hoppes is a good general purpose solvent, but isnt that good at severly fouled bores.

[lcrken]

It's been a while, but I finally have an update. I did manage to get the bore really clean, with all the leading removed, and found a lot of really serious damage. Looked like there had been some serious corrosion, leaving pitting deep enough to remove the rifling completely in a couple sections. I tried it again at the range anyhow, with a couple different loads, both cast and jacketed, and the groups were still all over the target at 100 yds. I couldn't tell the group size, because some rounds weren't even on the paper, but it was at least 24", and probably more. I ended up sending it off to Randall Redman for relining. His backlog is 6 months, so I'll have to wait a while, but that was still half the time I was quoted by Steve and by John Taylor. I'll post the results when I finally get it back. In the meantime, I'll just keep using my Winchester 94 in .45 Colt for the short range silhouettes.

Ken

[Malamute]

Thanks for the update. Let us know how the reline works out for you.

Should be a fun shooter when its done.

[QCI Winchesters]

I wish we had a re-lining service here in Canada, so many otherwise nice '73's and '92's in .25-20 and 32WCF have ruined bores. I understand it was from a combination of Sharpshooter smokeless powder, and corrosive priming. Same as the bores in .32WSL rifles are usually rotten, too.

[ndnchf]

FWIW - I had Redman's reline a #4 Rolling Block in .22 LR many years ago. They did a great job and it is a real tackdriver.

Yes, John Taylor has a long wait. About 3 months ago I sent him a very nice 1873 Winchester carbine that has a bad chamber, but an excellent bore. He is going to put a new chamber in it, but he told me then it would be a 9 - 12 month wait. But it is in good hands and I have other guns to play with, so that's ok.