308 vs 243

[93marshooter]

I have reported here on my new to me Savage 99F .243. I have some idea of trading it for a 99 in .308. I have killed a deer with .308 and it is a hammer. How does the 243 do as a deer round?

[Lassiter]

The .243 is a perfectly capable deer round, provided that the shot is correctly placed. It's not one that I (personally) would prefer if the shots are likely to be long or a less than perfect angle. The .308, on the other hand, is a pretty good all around choice for deer or black bear. Just my personal opinion. It's free and worth every penny.

[Old Ironsights]

As a deer round the difference between .243 & .308 is negligible.

243 shoots flatter but has less mass.

308 is backward compatible with more ammo.

Using a 243 on Elk or bigger is more dependent on skill than with a .308.

FWIW... I want a 99(C) TD with all 3 barrels.... .243, .308, & .358w...

Antelope/Whitetail.... Muley/Elk... Elk/Moose....

[madman4570]

.243 is for sure no 308 (kinda have mixed feelings on the .243)

If both guns were otherwise equal in everything else such as quality/accuracy etc.-----------------------308 without a single doubt.

[Mescalero]

Again the classic American big is better, without any other consideration.
There are other factors.

[Blaine]

In my free, and worth every penny opinion, .243 is not as good as .308 if only because it tears up more meat...

[shooter]

What all do you want the caliber to accomplish? For just deer either will work just fine. Some look down on the .243, but I have never shot at a deer that didn't hit the ground with mine. Plus you can load much lighter bullets with the .243 if you are inclined to hunt varmints. The .308 is probably, IMO, a better all around big game cartridge. There isn't anything in North America that can't be taken with the .308. I want one, but I won't get rid of my .243.

[Mescalero]

You have got to learn velocity/bullet/construction/purpose.
And discount myth.
Why am I defending .243? my Husky kicks the carp out of me!
Because it does what I ask it to do.

[6pt-sika]

The 308 falls in the category with the 06 and 223 which means I ain't no advocate of them !

Don't know why but I have never liked those three rounds !

I do however like the 243 both as a deer round and as a groundhog round .

I've killed a few deer with one no problem but I've killed a heck of alot more groundhogs with a 243 .

Kinda funny I like just about all the cartridges based on the 308 more then the 308 itself !

The 243 , 260 , 7-08 and 338 Federal are all on my favourites list .
The 308 and 358 are NOT .

Which is also kinda funny because I like the rimmed version of the 358 the 356 WIN .

Oh yeah I spend a fair amount of time on a British forum and those guys are eat up with the 243 WIN for just about everything up to and including Red Stag which is a slightly smaller version of an elk !

[6pt-sika]

In my free, and worth every penny opinion, .243 is not as good as .308 if only because it tears up more meat...

To me that would be a moot point !

I do not care if I knock both the front wheels out as long as it doesn't run off and isn't recovered !
And since I generally shoot in the pocket behind the front shoulder for the heart alotta times I'll get one or both shoulders .

I suspect with my 150 grain 308 loads versus my 95 grain 243 loads fired at the same distance and into the same amount of resistance you'd find the 150 grainer would make a bigger mess anyway !

You want something that doesn't tear up to bad get you a 375 H&H or a 416 REM MAG , every deer I've killed with them was just as that crotchety old guy from Montana with the big hat used to say in print , "you can eat right up to the bullet hole"!
And again i ain't no follower of Elmer Keith but I do agree with that !

[Mescalero]

Ask Big Sky 56 about .243.

[pwl44m]

My first Deer was killed with a mod 88 Win. in 243. Stopped by the local Sherrifs dept to have it validated. The smart alec deputy asked what I killed it with. I said 243 and He said "why are You using a Pop Gun"-go figger. It was a mighty big deer for My area too, dressed out at 64 lbs.
Perry

[Blaine]

You want something that doesn't tear up to bad get you a 375 H&H or a 416 REM MAG

You, and Robert Ruark

[6pt-sika]

You want something that doesn't tear up to bad get you a 375 H&H or a 416 REM MAG

You, and Robert Ruark

Dude if yah got it ya might as well use it

[Dave]

Those are both great rounds and I have killed deer with both. Now I use the 243 if I am not using the 30-30. The 243 is plenty powerful for deer. I have killed deer with it out to 250 yards and that is a long shot for me. No gun will do right if the hit is sloppy, but assuming a good hit you will not look far for your deer with the 243. Many times they are on the ground before the gun comes out of recoil.

Either round is a good choice but a good shooting 243 isn't a gun I would part with. It is a very useful cartridge more powerful than 257 Roberts which was a respected elk round in its day.

[AJMD429]

FWIW... I want a 99(C) TD with all 3 barrels.... .243, .308, & .358w...

Antelope/Whitetail.... Muley/Elk... Elk/Moose....

That would be one cool levergun...!

[AJMD429]

You want something that doesn't tear up to bad get you a 375 H&H or a 416 REM MAG , every deer I've killed with them was just as that crotchety old guy from Montana with the big hat used to say in print , "you can eat right up to the bullet hole"!

I know they don't make a Savage 99 in 375 Ruger, so it's off-the-thread, but since the 270 grain Ruger 270 grain Hornady factory load zero'd at 200 yards, will only be 1.8 inches high at 100 yards, and only down eight inches at 300 - it isn't much different than a 170 grain 308 load, and maybe an inch less 'flat' than a 270. Plus as you said, that big hole and non-fragile bullet would not destroy much meat to get a very rapid and humane kill.

[JB]

In my free, and worth every penny opinion, .243 is not as good as .308 if only because it tears up more meat...

If the 243 is tearing up more meat, it's due to the improper bullet selection. I once bought a 25-06 off a guy because it "wouldn't penetrate" and "blew up on the shoulders". When he handed me what was left of his hunting rounds, I found he'd been deer hunting with a varmint bullet.

For deer sized game the 308 holds the advantage. Plus you'll get one of the most accurate cartridges ever made. It's been proven on the rifle ranges.

[North Country Gal]

I've shot deer with the 243 and never had cause to complain. Shots were 150 yards or less and were properly placed. Now, if I planed to hunt elk at some time with a 99, I'd opt for the 308 or the 300 Savage. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who has problems taking deer with a 243, assuming they are using the right loads, is going to have problems taking deer with any cartridge. Going bigger isn't going to cure that.

The 308 is a great cartridge. Choose it because you want and like the 308. No need to get into a discussion of which is the better deer cartridge. They're both good.

[FWiedner]

I know this:

A 150lb sow will drop like a brick when shot in the head at point-blank range with a .308 Win 180gr PP.

A 150lb sow will turn and look at you for a moment and then attempt to continue to eat before suddenly falling over to one side when shot in the head at point-blank range with a .243 Win 110gr PP.

A 150lb sow shot in the head at point-blank range with a 9mm Win 124gr HP will get pizzed and attack anything it can reach while screaming loudly and making a bloody mess.

[Thunder50]

For deer, I couldn't even begin to guess how many thousands of deer have fallen to the 243, same with the 308. Use a good bullet (nosler partition comes to mind) and you don't have any worries. Recoil will be a bit less with the 243.

My neighbors daughter killed her elk with a 243. Three shots, three elk, over the years. Longest at 287 yds. She used partition bullets and put it just where it needed to go.

Now, if you can trade straight across for the 308, I would go for it myself. Its one of my favorite rounds.

[86er]

What deer and where? Deer is such a generic term. In the Southwest we have full sized, mature deer at less than 100 pounds. Columbia blacktail can be low 100 pounds. Northern whitetails have been known to go 300 pounds or a bit more. Muley's vary by region too. The bigger the deer and colder the climate the more I think the 308 makes more sense. You'll need more penetration and energy for quick results. Next question is will you hunt from a stand or blind or will you be stalking/walking? This can affect the group size due to the rest available. Only you know how accurate you can be under your hunting conditions, but there have been a lot of previous comments that mention accuracy as being somewhat more important when using the 243. With either cartridge you need to chose a proper bullet for the job, proper sighting system for the distances and stay within your own limitations. I've only shot a 243 with 100 gr bullets at factory velocity out of a Rem 700 ADL rifle. Compared to my 308 with 165 gr bullets at 2500 fps in my Savage 99 with lightweight scope the recoil is very similar to me. The 243 with 105 down to maybe 85 grain bullets have offerings appropriate for deer. It can double for smaller animals from antelope to woodchucks. The 308 with as much as 220 gr down to 120 gr bullets have offerings appropriate for deer. There is not a whole lot of smaller offering so to me it would always be a big gun for varmints. On the other hand, there are 308 loads that will do fine on game bigger than deer like a medium bear, elk or even moose. I think the versatility of the 243 is reduced as you go up in size of game. Maybe you should ask yourself what else you are likely to use the cartridge for besides deer to get your answer. Good luck!

[Blackhawk]

I agree with whats being said. Shot both and love both. The edge has to go to the 243 for felt recoil while the edge goes to the 308 for broader range of bullets and for larger game. Either way both are great calibers.

Johnny

[93marshooter]

I have a .308 bolt action and a M44 Mosin that I can shoot all day as recoil is no issue. I guess I hang on to the Savage 99 .243 to see what it will do on deer and hogs. If I can find a place to hunt this year.

[Old Savage]

With the 85 gr Barnes bullet, all copper, I would say the 243 is more effective in the smallish/medium sizes here in that it shoots flatter at 3225 fps and does plenty of damage. Ranges here can be longish over uneven terrain that complicates range estimation. The bullet performs well at 50 to 275 yds from the cases we have personally had.

[guntar]

Assuming appropriate bullets for both rifles:

- the 243 will kill any deer that walks with good to excellent shot presentation

- the 308 will kill any deer that walks even if the angle is bad.

Other than that, take your pick.

[Mescalero]

FWiedner,
Bet that 9mm shot got things lively for a while!

[FWiedner]

FWiedner,
Bet that 9mm shot got things lively for a while!

Lively is a conservative description.

It was actually rather disturbing.

You'd think a critter would just stand still and let a fella put it down.

In hindsight, I wish I'd used more gun.

[Mescalero]

Good info, for the hogs back in N.M.

[mod71alaska]

My most sensible advice is to put the .308 on layaway, save your allowance and buy the 99 in .308 so you have a 99 in BOTH .243 and .308 calibers! . .243 and .308 compliment each other very well.

[El Chivo]

Doesn't pertain to your dilemna, but how about in between - 260 Rem? Same case and .264 caliber.

[El Chivo]

Doesn't pertain to your dilemna, but how about in between - 260 Rem? Same case and .264 caliber.

If you shoot a lot, you may burn out your .243 barrel faster.

[tman]

The 308 WCF. has killed everything on this planet. You may prefer something bigger for heavy/dangerous game, but the farmers and poachers of Africa routinely take the Big 5 with it, being a military cartridge with easy access to it. The .243 WCF., in the hands of a good shot , take alot of elk. Since rifles chambered for either, are generally the same length and weight, I'll go with the .308. Plus, you can load the .308 down to .243 levels, but you can't load the .243 to .308 power and bullet weight.

[93marshooter]

I have .223, 30-30x2, .308 bolt , 30-06 x2, 7.62x54r, and the savage 99 243. If
Any thing I'm over gunned. But the 99 really is a great rifle for balance and style. It went to the top of the list.

[Old Ironsights]

mif anything, my Savage 99 in .308 is (in comparison to my MBR) a brutal kicker.

highly accurate though.

I have ZERO issues with the .243 as an effective round when used by a Rifleman.

Don't sweat the nay-sayers...

(BUT ... if you want to use it on anything 200#+... you better be a deadeye...)

[Old Ironsights]

FWIW... I want a 99(C) TD with all 3 barrels.... .243, .308, & .358w...

Antelope/Whitetail.... Muley/Elk... Elk/Moose....

That would be one cool levergun...!

BEST GUN EVER...

(looking for investors to start a 99C TD company...)

[93marshooter]

Recoil/kick? I have been shooting a local service rifle match with my Mosin Nagant M44. It takes 35 to 45 rounds. It makes other guns seen mild. Tolerating recoil takes focus on target, trigger control, and hearing protection, and other shooting skills. And a gun you can shoot. My worst experience was a 45-70 levergun. Years ago my father in-law bought his first bolt action hunting rifle a Mauser MarkX in 30-06. He bought some 220 gr. bullets right off the bat as his first ammo. They beat him up until I was able to see what he had an got some 125 gr. rounds to become accustomed to that rifle.

[rimrock]

I have a .308 and like it. If you plan to use this gun to introduce new shooters to hunting then .243 would be better IMHO becuase of less felt recoil--maybe even if you've never been in tree stand and need less recoil to feel confident of a clean kill. Don'i pay attention to my words, they can't hurt you. Make your choice with your head held high. In Central Texas, deer are mostly oversized great danes which will easily fall to hv rounds well placed.

[Lastmohecken]

In the Savage 99, I might choose the .243 over the .308, because sometimes I think the .308 just might be a little hot for the 99 action, much preferring the 300 savage in 30 caliber. But be that as may, I wouldn't get rid of a good shooting .243 Savage 99, and the .308 win is my favorite rifle round, but that's in a Browning BLR.

Based on the deer I have seen and tracked shot by others with the .243, I believe bullet placement and bullet choice is more critical then with the .308 Win., however I don't have a minutes doubt that if I had to hunt deer with the .243 for the rest of my life, I could get by just fine, but I still like the added power available in the .308 and the larger wound channels I have seen, and better blood trails if needed.

Of course bullet placement trumps everything else.

[Charles]

I bought a Winchester 70 Featheweight 243 in 1959 when it was still a fairly new round and the talk of the town. I hunted with it for over 30 years and took several dozen whitetail, mule deer, a few pronghorn and a truck load of javelina, coyotes and other smaller stuff. I killed them all with one shot and I never lost an animal. I still have the rifle.

I do need to say, I passed up many shots and only took the ones where I was 100% certain of putting the bullet where I wanted it.The 243 Winchester is an adequate deer round and will do just fine in the hands of a patient hunter and skilled marksman.

The above said, if I was starting all over again, I would go with the 308 Winchester. It will do anything the 243 will do, plus some more it won't. I own four 308 rifles including two Winchester 88s which I consider the nee plus ultra deer rifle and round.

[cshold]

"The Rifleman's Rifle: Winchester Model 70"

“Beware of the man who owns one rifle.”

“The .243 Winchester - Possibly the Perfect Round”

The .243 Win.works for me…

[t.r.]

.243 is one of those cartridges that benefitted from the advent of Premium bullets. Bonded bullets and Partition style bullets provide deeper penetration than so-called standard bullets. Deep penetration provides a wide exit wound same as 25-06. .243 is a fast stepping cartridge that shoots flat and hits hard.

All that being stated, I've toppled many deer and antelope with plain old Winchester Point Ammo and Remington core-lokt ammo. .243 is a dependable deer killer same as 25-06.

TR

[Lastmohecken]

Assuming appropriate bullets for both rifles:

- the 243 will kill any deer that walks with good to excellent shot presentation

- the 308 will kill any deer that walks even if the angle is bad.

Other than that, take your pick.

Well said, IMHO, and my experiences. I have no doubt I couldn't get by just fine with the .243, and I have sort of been looking for one in an older BLR or Savage 99, but I have taken a pretty good pile of deer with the .308 with 180gr bullets because I have owned a sweet handling BLr in .308 for many years, and frankly I prefer a gun that is capable of taking a deer from any angle, raking shot, etc. I won't take a raking shot on a doe, but good racks are still not that common for me, and I am not in the habit of letting opportunities walk or run off if the horns get my blood to flowing, and that is where a larger caliber heavy bullet shines.

[Blaine]

Just a bit of clarification.... Here in Western Region, Bear season coincides with much of deer and elk season.....so, .243 ain't gonna happen with a bear tag in my pocket...Just my un-experienced opinion, I'm sure bear is done all the time with a .243....

[6pt-sika]

Just a bit of clarification.... Here in Western Region, Bear season coincides with much of deer and elk season.....so, .243 ain't gonna happen with a bear tag in my pocket...Just my un-experienced opinion, I'm sure bear is done all the time with a .243....

A kid in PA back when I used to do their bear season killed a 660 pound field dressed blackie with a 243 shooting a single hand loaded 90 grain bullet ! Not my perfect choice but how dead ya want it !

[6pt-sika]

My only 243 at the moment is a Ruger #1B I gave my pop for Xmas a few years back . I however have a friend that's got about a 10 year old Remington 700BDL LH in 243 I wouldn't mind getting for the wife and either leave it as is or rebar eel to 260 REM !

[Blaine]

Just a bit of clarification.... Here in Western Region, Bear season coincides with much of deer and elk season.....so, .243 ain't gonna happen with a bear tag in my pocket...Just my un-experienced opinion, I'm sure bear is done all the time with a .243....

A kid in PA back when I used to do their bear season killed a 660 pound field dressed blackie with a 243 shooting a single hand loaded 90 grain bullet ! Not my perfect choice but how dead ya want it !

Yes, and some old Eskimo lady killed a bar with a .22 short....get real

[6pt-sika]

Just a bit of clarification.... Here in Western Region, Bear season coincides with much of deer and elk season.....so, .243 ain't gonna happen with a bear tag in my pocket...Just my un-experienced opinion, I'm sure bear is done all the time with a .243....

A kid in PA back when I used to do their bear season killed a 660 pound field dressed blackie with a 243 shooting a single hand loaded 90 grain bullet ! Not my perfect choice but how dead ya want it !

Yes, and some old Eskimo lady killed a bar with a .22 short....get real

That is real !

I saw the bear at the check station , I saw the kid and I saw the rifle .

That was in 2002 or 2003 .

The kid did say he shot it once and it ran around in a small circle , someone asked him why he didn't shoot it again and he said he was afraid he might make it madder LOL's ! I think one shot with that thing did the bear in about a minute or less !

I also expect if you go to Alaska and ask around there have been a good umber of polar bear killed with a 22 Hornet . Seems to me I read something a number of years ago that the ammo makers claimed they sold more Hornet ammo in Alaska then any other place . Seems those folks used it for any and everything .

Also Mr.Skeptic , I remmember reading a magazine article back in the 70's about Byron Dalrymple shooting a blackie out in Colorado , Wyoming or Montana with a single shot from a 243 at about 150-200 yards seems to me the bear weighed about 250-300 pounds gutted .

[Blaine]

Well, luckily I have a variety of much superior calibers....I believe when I joked about you using .375/416 on deer, you had a fairly caviler retort for me... Bear is where you need the more reliable stopping power, Bubba, not killing ability....

[6pt-sika]

Well, luckily I have a variety of much superior calibers....I believe when I joked about you using .375/416 on deer, you had a fairly caviler retort for me... Bear is where you need the more reliable stopping power, Bubba, not killing ability....

Read what I wrote when I remarked about the boy using a 243 . I said "not my perfect choice".

My response about the 375 H&H and 416 is and was , if ya got it you might as well use it !

Whats so Cavalier about that ?

A black bear isn't very hard to kill if you keep your wits about you Bubba !

Of the ones I've popped all were DRT . Of the 8 or so my gunsmith buddies killed only one ran over ten yards Bubba and that one was shot with an M1A twice , both killing shots .