A (sad) Sign Of The Times

[Pete44ru]

Fishersville VA Gun Show .22's

Cheapest brick was $70 !

Bulk packs of Federal $80 (like the one that sold for $19 for in November).

Individual boxes(50) CCI subsonic $9 - And, people were buying some !

S&B LP primers were there for $38 , Winchester SR for $50.

Primers now cost what .22's cost last year.


.

[Sixgun]

Pete,
As long as people are buying them, that's what the price will be. My bud at Targetmaster (610-459-5400) still has a near full supply of .22 ammo of most makes............still priced within reason and you know what??............people are just buying what they need..................because...............they know the ammo will be there next week or next month or whatever.

He ain't stupid though. If some cat comes in and wants to buy a huge supply, he tells 'em to hit the road with no sugarcoating in the conversation. Keeps 'em from trying to play the game of getting friends to buy it. A lot of customers think he and his guys are mean.............no, just smart. He was never one to be taken advantage of.

Centerfire ammo of most calibers is also available but..................you have to buy a gun or use his indoor range to buy it.

On Friday I told him I needed a brick of 500 CCI Mini Mags and he says to me, "You don't need that much right now, here's a box of 100 to get you through the match this weekend. Come see me next month right before the next match". The guy can read people like a book. ---------------------------Sixgun

[Malamute]

I dont beleive wholeasle prices have gone up much if at all. Those selling for more may be having to buy for more, but I believe many are simply taking advantage of the situation. The local shop has ammo for fairly normal prices, and wal mart has ammo for normal prices, when you can catch it in. It's just mainly everyone buying it in freakout mode that keeps it all gone from the shelves. If people went back to normal buying habits, supplies would catch up on the shelves.

[jnyork]

As long as idiots keep paying scalpers prices, the prices will be set by the scalpers. If everyone would just back off , take a few deep breaths and quit paying those prices, it would take about 60 days for things to get back to normal

[olyinaz]

As long as idiots keep paying scalpers prices, the prices will be set by the scalpers. If everyone would just back off , take a few deep breaths and quit paying those prices, it would take about 60 days for things to get back to normal

Aggravating isn't it! But if it'll take 60 days for supplies to return to normal, how do you get people to back off?? It's nuts and it's worse than last time. I think the only thing that will stop it is supply on the shelves. THAT would stop it cold - if people saw that it's available and calmed down.

AR-15s are expensive enough that I think everyone who was in freak out mode finally got one and now supplies are starting to return to normal with stock on the shelves (normal prices at big box stores, still inflated somewhat at most gun shops). But even at 50/brick most people can afford to snatch on impulse - so here we sit with NONE available on the shelves. Really chaps my hide.

At least that's my take on it. Dunno, I could be completely wrong.

[OldWin]

Sadly, a lot of people are idiots. They only worry about this stuff when they can't get it. I won't buy anything and haven't since this started. But after this has happened a few times I've learned not to be caught by it. Most of those standing at Wal Mart waiting for the ammo to be put out didn't have a full box in their house before. They just keep fueling it. I'd use a boomerang before I paid 80 bucks for bulk pack 22's that quite honestly have crappy quality anyway.

Ok I'm done, whoo! Too much coffee I guess.

[Blaine]

When it's there, some non-scalping stores like Cabela's and WallyWorld charge the going rate, and it's not the 80-100 dang dollars a brick I saw at the gun show yesterday Some "thing" head had Varget for 42 a pound. He got all uppity when I told him no, that's not the going rate...Cabela's had some for 28 a jug.

[mod71alaska]

I need some 9mm FMJ to shoot a new Glock 19 I bought a couple of weeks ago at my LGS. I just saw online where a dealer is selling the Remington bulk UMC 115 gr. MC (FMJ) 250 rd box for $374.95 shipped. Yes, that's right...$374.95 per 250 rd box! My local gun shop when he had this ammo a week ago sold the same 250 rd. UMC box for $74.95. That's right...same box for $74.95! One per customer per day and he didn't have very much, but he didn't price gouge and has a very loyal customer base including me. Hard to understand the price difference.

I still need some 9mm FMJ if anyone would sell me some at a reasonable price.

[rimrock]

Went to local gun on 4/13. I was surprised to see many ARs reasonably priced. I did see 22lr bricks at $95--WOW!! Only vendor I saw selling primers had plenty of LR at $38/brick. He had sold our of SP just before I found him.

[Hobie]

You were there? Dang! I saw a brick of Colibri for $60 as was a bulk box of Thunderbolts! I bought nothing.

[dennie]

I was at the Hara Arena gun show near Dayton, Ohio on Saturday. There was plenty of .22 rimfire ammo, but prices were $40 to $100 a brick. Lots of primers too, $35-$60/k. Several dealers had .223 ammo for nearly a dollar per round. I saw several ARs, S&W, Bushmaster, and a few names I have never seen before. They started at just under a thousand bucks and up to about $1500. Several lever guns laying around, mostly Marlins, and nearly all .30-30s. Prices in the $4-500 range. They did have a Win. 9422m in nice shape for $675. I also saw lots of powder, but prices were jacked up to more than I would give. A couple venders even had Unique and W231! Lots of land fill quality knives, hatchets, belts, holsters, flash lights, etc. I did buy a brat and iced tea while I was there.
dennie

[Grizz]

this type of conversation always amazes me. it's the action of a free market. I don't fault anyone for buying and selling what is currently legal to own and trade. If you want to sell your 22 ammo for 1$ per brick there is nothing stopping you. If you want to sell your 22 ammo for 100$ there's nothing stopping you too.

people are expressing a moral component where none exists. the fact is that the market perception has spotlighted 22 ammo as an opportunity. 22 ammo has been commoditized and market based economics allow the demand to set the prices. this is not only the fundamental basis of the American economy, it is the way wealth is created and how it passed through different hands.

some of us saw this coming and collected enough that we are not affected by a supply shortage. some of us see the supply shortage as an opportunity to pay for the ammo with other people's money. this is how ALL money making operations work. this is how money is made in the stock market or livestock market or bond market or bail bond market.

want to make a lot of money? it's pretty easy schematically. find one or two stocks that have oscillating prices. not the high rollers that cost a fortune and not the penny stocks that are a straight gamble. buy when the price is low, say less than 20$ per brick, or the equivilant. as prices roll up toward the highs sell off incrementally until you have paid off the cost of your inventory. in the current 22 market you would be able to pay off 3/4s of your inventory by selling a quarter of it. if you want to you can sell another quarter and keep that cash for the next down cycle.

if you want to day trade, you do this every day. this is what the 22 ammo traders are doing. they go where the price is low and buy what they can. then they go where the price is high and sell what the market is demanding.

it works with cars. it works with airplanes. it works with the stock market. it works with the scrap metal market. and it works with 22 ammo.

this is the essence of free enterprise. blaming someone else for lack of foresight, or for actively trading in a lucrative volitile market is suggesting that national socialism is preferable to honest profits. I think that those shops that are selling at lower tier prices and regulating the sales are actually looking at the big picture and want our business, want us to keep buying guns over the counter and to return there for all our needs. they are not selling ammo at a loss, they are using the foregone profit potential as advertising and good will investments.

it's gonna be the same way when food sources start drying up. some folks are gonna eat because they prepared for the scarce times. some are going to be wards of the state because they did not.

can you believe there's a Bible verse for that?

Grizz

[Blaine]

Grizz, I'm not gnashing my teeth, I'm laughing, and "palm/face".......I've loaned out some .22 and 20ga buck to a good friend. Still have plenty.

[Grizz]

Ah you get it eh? I'm laughing too. I mean, it's that or what?

Why should Americans be so confused by capitalism?

[L_Kilkenny]

As for the moral component......

Being in small business I have no problem with sellin your goods or services for what ever you can get. As a matter of fact it's just plain dumb not to. But as I've stated before, I do have an issue with so called dealers creating a defacto local monopoly by cruising the retailers and the internet and buying up everything before the average Joe has a shot at it. They INTENTIONALLY attempt to make it so average Joe has only 2 options....... Don't shoot or buy at their inflated prices. While I don't think it should be illegal, I do applaud retailers who try to keep their ammo out of these sharks hands. Then again, I don't have any moral component issues with poppin some of these guys in the mouth either. Just legal ones.

At least one local gun shop has ammo on hand at before panic pricing. None of it for sale to folks off the street. He only sells the ammo to people who buy a gun from him and is trying to make it so those new owners can at least go to the range and try out their new toy. He protects his business (who wants to buy a gun they can't get ammo for) and helps them out too. He doesn't allow big bulk purchases from even those who buy a gun.

AR's were everywhere at last months show and while I wasn't at the show last weekend, I hear it hasn't changed. Prices are still inflated, have come down a little, but all the panic buyers have theirs already and not many takers in the market right now. If I had to I'd bet AR pricing is closer to normal by the next big show (June).

[Blaine]

As for the moral component......

Being in small business I have no problem with sellin your goods or services for what ever you can get. As a matter of fact it's just plain dumb not to. But as I've stated before, I do have an issue with so called dealers creating a defacto local monopoly by cruising the retailers and the internet and buying up everything before the average Joe has a shot at it. They INTENTIONALLY attempt to make it so average Joe has only 2 options....... Don't shoot or buy at their inflated prices. While I don't think it should be illegal, I do applaud retailers who try to keep their ammo out of these sharks hands. Then again, I don't have any moral component issues with poppin some of these guys in the mouth either. Just legal ones.

At least one local gun shop has ammo on hand at before panic pricing. None of it for sale to folks off the street. He only sells the ammo to people who buy a gun from him and is trying to make it so those new owners can at least go to the range and try out their new toy. He protects his business (who wants to buy a gun they can't get ammo for) and helps them out too. He doesn't allow big bulk purchases from even those who buy a gun.

AR's were everywhere at last months show and while I wasn't at the show last weekend, I hear it hasn't changed. Prices are still inflated, have come down a little, but all the panic buyers have got theirs and not many takers in the market right now. If I had to I'd bet AR pricing is closer to normal by the next big show (June).

Just curious....I was talking to some vendors last Sat at The Show where there were gun/ammo packages available. Seems that the ammo has to be part of the deal for the gun, not to be separated, or it is illegal to discriminate by selling to one, and not another.....Maybe....I don't know...

[L_Kilkenny]

Just curious....I was talking to some vendors last Sat at The Show where there were gun/ammo packages available. Seems that the ammo has to be part of the deal for the gun, not to be separated, or it is illegal to discriminate by selling to one, and not another.....Maybe....I don't know...

I see stuff sold as packages all the time... Scopes on guns, variety pack breakfast cereals, 12 pack of beer, free binoculars with purchase of spotting scopes, etc etc. Don't imagine that anyone can force retailers to break out a package to sell separately or why a gun/ammo deal would be any different. In my not so expert opinion of coarse.

[Grizz]

@L_Kilkenny

I was self-employed for most of my adult life and this year is the first time in around 40 years that there was no business return. I quit being in business because of the treason in the government, all branches.

The topic suggests a lack of understanding of how free markets operate, or a complete disagreement with them, such as the current 3 branches of the federalistas. The current ammo situation was as predictable as rain.

A lot of folks are waiting for the market to return to normal, but in unmanipulated markets there are new normals established and the old benchmarks are probably not reachable in our lifetimes.

It's not personal, it's just business.

Grizz

[tman]

@L_Kilkenny

I was self-employed for most of my adult life and this year is the first time in around 40 years that there was no business return. I quit being in business because of the treason in the government, all branches.

The topic suggests a lack of understanding of how free markets operate, or a complete disagreement with them, such as the current 3 branches of the federalistas. The current ammo situation was as predictable as rain.

A lot of folks are waiting for the market to return to normal, but in unmanipulated markets there are new normals established and the old benchmarks are probably not reachable in our lifetimes.

It's not personal, it's just business.

Grizz

I agree, ammo is a luxury, Energy, food and medical care isn't.It's an incovience when us poor folk can't go shooting. But it's blood in the streets when we can no longer afford to eat

[Grizz]

@L_Kilkenny

I was self-employed for most of my adult life and this year is the first time in around 40 years that there was no business return. I quit being in business because of the treason in the government, all branches.

The topic suggests a lack of understanding of how free markets operate, or a complete disagreement with them, such as the current 3 branches of the federalistas. The current ammo situation was as predictable as rain.

A lot of folks are waiting for the market to return to normal, but in unmanipulated markets there are new normals established and the old benchmarks are probably not reachable in our lifetimes.

It's not personal, it's just business.

Grizz

I agree, ammo is a luxury, Energy, food and medical care isn't.It's an incovience when us poor folk can't go shooting. But it's blood in the streets when we can no longer afford to eat

ammo is not a luxury in my household, it is the key to feeding my family when the stores run out. that and some fishing gear. the land is abundant and food is plentiful. A saw and axe supply energy. Wind supplies energy.

Wherefore can't you forage and hunt for food? In Alaska the food is laying around everywhere and surrendered for the taking. you would have to be very deliberate and diligent to starve to death.

where you choose to live and how you intend to tend to your future are your own free choice and no one owes us anything but opportunity, the very thing the govt is destroying as fast as they can.

http://giveusliberty1776.blogspot.com/2 ... ation.html

we're either on that side or the other side, we can't have it both ways.

[AJMD429]

As long as idiots keep paying scalpers prices, the prices will be set by the scalpers. If everyone would just back off , take a few deep breaths and quit paying those prices, it would take about 60 days for things to get back to normal

Pretty much the truth.

If people were able to 'withold purchasing' of health-insurance for 90 days, that would drop the price of decent health insurance, too; too bad our regulatory environment doesn't let the free market operate there.

[tman]

We all can't move to Alaska , and if the masses did, they would kill off all the game and fish, posion the land and water and over run you and take all of your supplies. So we all have a stake in not letting things get to far out of hand. Better to look for ways to rebuild the middleclass than to pit the poor against the working poor.

[Grizz]

I don't know Doc. I've boycotted doctors for decades and the prices keep going up anyway.

I've asked if they would drop their price for cash and no paperwork and they decline.

There is no free market in medicine as nearly as I can tell.

why would buyers of 22 ammo be characterized as idiots? they have cash and the price is not a barrier to trade, the way that healthcare price is a barrier.

if they can afford the ammo, wouldn't they be more idiotic not to buy it? if the poop hits the propellor tonight, the guys sitting on a partial box of 50 and cash are going to appear to be idiots, and the guys who bought at today's prices are gonna be smiling. and if the brick price drops to 20 no harm no foul, the high rollers will just buy more and dollar cost average their supply.

I dollar cost averaged into my stuff and don't feel any pressure to pay up for more. Wish the rest of my life were equally simple.

Grizz

[JohndeFresno]

Fishersville VA Gun Show .22's...Cheapest brick was $70...Bulk packs of Federal $80....

OK, I can top that.

3 day gun show at the Fresno Fair - one ammo company backed up the trucks and planned to be there for all three days by limiting sales to 5k rounds per customer. Sold out that morning!

But that isn't what tops your complaints - this is:
A friend parked his car in a paid lot by the gate, viewed some exhibits, and came back to find that somebody had sawed off his catalytic converter! It cost him $1500 to replace it.

THAT didn't happen in the good ol' days.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

this type of conversation always amazes me. it's the action of a free market. I don't fault anyone for buying and selling what is currently legal to own and trade. If you want to sell your 22 ammo for 1$ per brick there is nothing stopping you. If you want to sell your 22 ammo for 100$ there's nothing stopping you too.

people are expressing a moral component where none exists. the fact is that the market perception has spotlighted 22 ammo as an opportunity. 22 ammo has been commoditized and market based economics allow the demand to set the prices. this is not only the fundamental basis of the American economy, it is the way wealth is created and how it passed through different hands.

some of us saw this coming and collected enough that we are not affected by a supply shortage. some of us see the supply shortage as an opportunity to pay for the ammo with other people's money. this is how ALL money making operations work. this is how money is made in the stock market or livestock market or bond market or bail bond market.

want to make a lot of money? it's pretty easy schematically. find one or two stocks that have oscillating prices. not the high rollers that cost a fortune and not the penny stocks that are a straight gamble. buy when the price is low, say less than 20$ per brick, or the equivilant. as prices roll up toward the highs sell off incrementally until you have paid off the cost of your inventory. in the current 22 market you would be able to pay off 3/4s of your inventory by selling a quarter of it. if you want to you can sell another quarter and keep that cash for the next down cycle.

if you want to day trade, you do this every day. this is what the 22 ammo traders are doing. they go where the price is low and buy what they can. then they go where the price is high and sell what the market is demanding.

it works with cars. it works with airplanes. it works with the stock market. it works with the scrap metal market. and it works with 22 ammo.

this is the essence of free enterprise. blaming someone else for lack of foresight, or for actively trading in a lucrative volitile market is suggesting that national socialism is preferable to honest profits. I think that those shops that are selling at lower tier prices and regulating the sales are actually looking at the big picture and want our business, want us to keep buying guns over the counter and to return there for all our needs. they are not selling ammo at a loss, they are using the foregone profit potential as advertising and good will investments.

it's gonna be the same way when food sources start drying up. some folks are gonna eat because they prepared for the scarce times. some are going to be wards of the state because they did not.

can you believe there's a Bible verse for that?

Grizz

Grizz,
I couldn't agree more. The best path to prosperity for all is the free market. A dealer should sell his product for whatever he can get for it.
The thing that drives me nuts is the dealers that try to manipulate governments to gain an advantage. Case in point. I was recently contacted by an Austin area gun dealer that is backing a Texas state sales tax on guns bought on-line. He thinks he can sell more guns from his store if the state of Texas pushes sales tax for internet sales. Getting the government to do your bidding usually results in unintended consequences.
Just found out this guy is from California and recently moved to Texas. It appears he may have brought his politics with him.

[bdhold]

been a long time since I've been to a gun show, but my buddy who attends many says the overpriced ammo isn't selling, there are layers of stickers on the boxes with the prices coming down, and the people trying to sell (gouge) them look really stupid.

[Grizz]

Getting the government to do your bidding usually results in unintended consequences.

Exactly. It's called national socialism, or naziism for short. We see it every where, which is why it is so refreshing to see the free market pop up from time to time.

[L_Kilkenny]

ammo is not a luxury in my household, it is the key to feeding my family when the stores run out. that and some fishing gear. the land is abundant and food is plentiful. A saw and axe supply energy. Wind supplies energy.

Wherefore can't you forage and hunt for food? In Alaska the food is laying around everywhere and surrendered for the taking. you would have to be very deliberate and diligent to starve to death.

where you choose to live and how you intend to tend to your future are your own free choice and no one owes us anything but opportunity, the very thing the govt is destroying as fast as they can.

http://giveusliberty1776.blogspot.com/2 ... ation.html

we're either on that side or the other side, we can't have it both ways.

See, now we're delving into issue outside of ammo prices and free market. If you really believe in such things than the current shortages and prices should have zero effect on you. You should have already stocked up. So well stocked ammo shelves should be nothing more than a luxury for you too.

Alaska is also in an area that most of us can't relate too. I just love it when I hear folks in the lower 48 say when the SHFT they are gonna head to the mountains and play Davy Crocket. Most couldn't pull it off if they were alone in the woods, add the 1000's that say they'll be there right along side them and none of them stand a chance. While easier in Alaska results would probably be similar.

[Grizz]

ammo is not a luxury in my household, it is the key to feeding my family when the stores run out. that and some fishing gear. the land is abundant and food is plentiful. A saw and axe supply energy. Wind supplies energy.

Wherefore can't you forage and hunt for food? In Alaska the food is laying around everywhere and surrendered for the taking. you would have to be very deliberate and diligent to starve to death.

where you choose to live and how you intend to tend to your future are your own free choice and no one owes us anything but opportunity, the very thing the govt is destroying as fast as they can.

http://giveusliberty1776.blogspot.com/2 ... ation.html

we're either on that side or the other side, we can't have it both ways.

See, now we're delving into issue outside of ammo prices and free market. If you really believe in such things than the current shortages and prices should have zero effect on you. You should have already stocked up. So well stocked ammo shelves should be nothing more than a luxury for you too.

Alaska is also in an area that most of us can't relate too. I just love it when I hear folks in the lower 48 say when the SHFT they are gonna head to the mountains and play Davy Crocket. Most couldn't pull it off if they were alone in the woods, add the 1000's that say they'll be there right along side them and none of them stand a chance. While easier in Alaska results would probably be similar.

Well L, you nailed it. The current shortages and prices have zero effect on me. I stocked up.

I fed my family off the land in Alaska for a lot of years. I can live off the land and have and will again.

And you missed it because I am into exactly the issue of prices and free markets and intimated that by making the cross-application to food staples. Free markets also apply to where and how we live. Living where there is a food surplus is part of that choice.

And you missed it because you don't have a realistic awareness of northern peoples and what they are capable of.

I'm not expressing theoreticals, I'm relating my experience and observed experiences of others when I write about this stuff. It's what my history is, sorry if it's no use to you.

Grizz

[tman]

The drug lords and their armies would sweep thru Alaska, rape and pilage the land, water, food and the inhabitants faster than you could comprehend. We all all in this together, never under estimate the Government, corporate, criminal mindset.

[Grizz]

The drug lords and their armies would sweep thru Alaska, rape and pilage the land, water, food and the inhabitants faster than you could comprehend. We all all in this together, never under estimate the Government, corporate, criminal mindset.

you're so funny it's hilarious. children should not be raised by television; there oughta be a law.

[tman]

REALLY

[Malamute]

Was in a local shop yesterday, the prices are about normal, though he asid his costs have gone up some, about $2-$4 a box on pistol rounds. He still prices with his standard markup depending on his cost. He had a couple dozen SBR's in. (scary black rifles). Prices are a little above pre-freak-out levels, but not at the extra high levels they got to a couple months ago in some places.

Wal mart didnt have much amo, but the trucks had been held up in bad weather for several days. Probably some in today, they expected trucks in last nite. Prices have been normal whenever they get stock in, its just all bought quickly so the hoarders cant get it.

[JohndeFresno]

I still have a gun mag at home - I forget which issue, but it was within the last year - that had an article extolling the hobby of handloading, and how it has declined in the past several years due to the excellent selection and quality of factory loads.

NOT!

Reloading has taken off again, and for the reasons I took it up in the Clinton era: Because some folks realize that some day the ammo might just be scarce (as it is now) or rendered too expensive for the little guy, through legislation or taxing or both.

See for yourself - Google some reloading tool or component, not even mentioning the ammo! I have been considering a new Hornady Lock-N-Load press to replace my RCBS Piggyback press, due to improved features and ease of caliber changeover. Guess what - "Backordered" shows up, if it is available at all, everywhere.

The same for practically every press except the Lee Turret press. By the way, for folks looking for a reasonably fast and easy way to load handgun calibers without spending a lot of money, that is a very good choice! Buy several turrets at their cheap price, while you can, if you use the Lee setup.

[Ysabel Kid]

I did manage to get into the "Dixie Gun & Knife" show this past weekend. Y2K and I arrived an hour before it opened, and there was still 200 people or more ahead of us. By the time they started letting folks in, and we got to the door, the line behind us was a good 45 minutes long (I know given the past times I've waited). It did quickly thin out after that, and was the lightest attended show I've been to in over a year. Part of it may have been the weather - it was beautiful, and I'm sure some elected to do things outside. Part was that some folks probably just didn't want to deal with the hassle. The last show in February we couldn't even get into. Waited almost an hour in the car just to get into the parking lot, and then saw a 3 hour foot line and just gave up.

Anyway, inside, I was actually surprised by the number of black rifles, parts, and magazines available - and at reasonable prices. Sure, some folks though they were selling gold by the pound, but most were fair. I bought a 2nd Gen Magpul P-Mag for $20 - new in the bag. That's about as fair as you can get.

.22's were a different story. Ruger BX-25 mags went from $50 to $80 bucks each (with the double one being $95). Only saw one brick of .22 LR's anywhere. The few 50 or 100 round boxes I saw were darn near 10x the price they were prior to Sandy Hook. It was more than crazy. Unfortunately, I imagine we'll never see the prices go back to sanity. Unreal...