180 gr plus loads in the 30-30?

Last Spike · Post by **Last Spike** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:05 pm

I was reading Sam Fadala's tome on the Winchester 30-30 where he goes into some detail on handloads which used 180 and 190 grain bullets for increased penetration - good for moose and elk.

I note that Hornady has a 180 grain round nose bullet (#3075). I also see that there is a 220 grain round nose bullet (#3090), but believe there will be issues using this long bullet in a 30-30.

What I would like to know is if anyone has experimented with handloads using Hornady's 180 grain offering and what issues may have come up?

On a side note, are there any other flat nose/round nose bullets commercially available in the 180 to 200 grain weight range that also could be considered?

Thank you for any information forthcoming,

Harry

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:18 pm

Harry,

I can't answer your questions. In all the shooting I've done with the 30-30 I've stuck with the 150 and 170gr bullets.

My question to add to yours, is if you can safely push a 180gr or heavier bullet fast enough from the 30-30 to get it to expand properly?

Joe

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:21 pm

30-30 WIN 150 GR. DPX HUNTER 2300 FPS/ 1762 FTLBS

From what I have been reading these are the cats meow
for the 30-30 and penetration.

Slick13 · Post by **Slick13** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:22 pm

Plus how much more penetration is a 180 or 190 grain bullet going to give compared to a 170 grain bullet at .30-30 velocities anyways?

~Michael

Last Spike · Post by **Last Spike** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:43 pm

To clarify, penetration that results in at least one, preferably both shoulders broken.

Fadala mentioned some of the better 170 grain bullets such as Nosler's Partition having broken at least one shoulder. So, yes, one could stick with the Partition or similar stoutly built 170 grain offerings, but, if it comes down to lack of supply of these in your area, I think that considering the 180 grain bullets and similar for handloads is a valid question.

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:02 pm

SIERRA 180 gr. RN

Powder: IMR 3031
25 gr. -- 1752 fps
26 gr. -- 1767 fps
27.3 gr. -- 1903 fps

Powder: Winchester 748
30 gr. -- 1836 fps
31 gr. -- 1903 fps
32 gr. -- 1977 fps

Powder: H-335
28 gr. -- 1879 fps
29 gr. -- 1903 fps
29.5 gr. -- 1931 fps

190 gr. cast RCBS 30-180-FN
sized .311"
26.0 gr. H335 = 1800 fps
50 yards = 3 shot groups under 1"
110 yards = best 3 shot group was 1 11/16"

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylo ... 4_3030.htm

BlaineCGarverakaTubbyTuba · Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:52 pm

Try a fairly large meplat hardcast in the 170gr neighborhood

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:28 pm

It looks like you're talking strictly cast bullets?

If you went with a jacketed bullet I'd think you have trouble getting much expansion at all since bullets that heavy are usually meant to be fired at higher velocities.

Rusty <><

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:42 pm

I imagine that you could size down cast bullets designed for the .303brit. They seem to be the only ones that I can find right now in the grn range that you are lookin for. Check out Lyman or RCBS they have a couple molds for that application.

Junior · Post by **Junior** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:50 pm

Spike, there's lots of sources for custom cast bullets by the 100 or by the 1,000. I suggest either the 30-180-FP like Jim T said or the Lyman 311041. Both have big ol' meplats. My 30-180-FPs in ww alloy run 195 grs RTL. My 311041s in ww alloy run 183 grs RTL.

WCF3030 · Post by **WCF3030** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:55 pm

I shot a 250 + pound pig with a Speer 180gr http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.e ... t=11082005 over 31grs of IMR 30-31 from my 22in barrel Savage 340. The shot was right behind the shoulder 40yds, quartering in and took out the far shoulder. leaving a good 2in hole and a hemerage the size of a Volleyball.
The V-spray on the Ferns was impressive. The pig dropped in its tracks.
Now having said all that I've globbered a 302lb boar right between the eyes while he was laying down on his belly looking at me and the 170 Rem cor-loc went through his skull down his neck and the bullet was found just underneath the skin in his shoulder. He did not move either.

Hopefully in the next year I'll be able to repeat that performance but with one of my Lyman 311041 173gr bullets that I'm just now getting to shoot well.
3 shots were scope adjustments and then 8 rounds inside a inch at 60 paces. I expect better my next time out.

LeverBob · Post by **LeverBob** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:51 pm

Good post...Using heavier than normal bullets on Elk & Moose has made sense since Bert Riggall (the great Rodky Mtn. guide) began using them on same.
Sam Fadala got the 30 WCF itch after reading H.V. Stents article in the 1980 Gun Digest-already a fan, I just got crazy with the experiments.. What an article it was too! It was sooo goooood that Sam had to write the book after a comment by another person who said that the 94 Winny was no good beyond 45 yrds. (or some such thing). Stent knew what he was talking about. What a great book by Sam too! I read mine every month for a year-have it almost memorized (like the Bible). Still reading it!
Stent related that Riggall loaded for the locals. They were knocking the elk & moose deader than last weeks N.Y.times.
His load:
Pull 190 gr. .30 cal. bullets from .303 Savage ammo.
Load 31 Grs. of Dupont 3031 with a std. primer.

You can substitute any cast bullet from 180 to 200 grs. that will fit & feed in a 30-30 rifle. Use a LEE crimp die, as the crimp groove will pobably not line up.

Oh yes...have fun!

LeverBob
30WCF Crazy

Last Spike · Post by **Last Spike** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:45 pm

Thanks, guys!

Good information! I certainly wasn't going to neglect the cast boolit angle either.

And being here in Alberta, the places I hunt elk and moose often have grizzly, so just being prepared if Ol' Grizz shows up is a good thing.

KWK · Post by **KWK** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:24 am

Sorry, no first hand experience, but I can offer results from the QuickLOAD simulator.

For reference, QL predicts 170 gn FN bullets will, from 24", go about 2200 fps and 150 gn FN bullets will go about 2375. Both estimates are close to factory specs.

For a fictitious 200 gn FN, it predicts 2000 fps. Hawk Bullets will make you such bullets, but those are not cheap. The std. 220 gn RN bullet QL predicts to go a bit under 1900 fps.

My notes have several references to older works claiming the .303 Sav was preferred over the .30-30 for elk. It launched about 195 gn at around 1900 fps (sources vary as to the weight and speed).

I'll also note that the 200 gn FN at 2000 fps would be nearly identical to the 220 gn RN the original .30-40 sporting loads sent to the same 2000 fps, and all the older writers felt that Krag load was adequate (but not ideal) for elk.

WCF3030 · Post by **WCF3030** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:48 am

I went back and read your post again.
I've loaded the Hornady 180gr in the 30-30.
What I found out quickly is that to seat it at the crimp groove will make the COL to long to feed in my Levers.
I seated the bullet father in to feed and used 30.5gr of IMR 3031 and they proved to be accurate. I have not yet used them on game.

Post by **Hobie** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:50 am

LeverBob wrote:Good post...Using heavier than normal bullets on Elk & Moose has made sense since Bert Riggall (the great Rodky Mtn. guide) began using them on same.
Sam Fadala got the 30 WCF itch after reading H.V. Stents article in the 1980 Gun Digest-already a fan, I just got crazy with the experiments.. What an article it was too! It was sooo goooood that Sam had to write the book after a comment by another person who said that the 94 Winny was no good beyond 45 yrds. (or some such thing). Stent knew what he was talking about. What a great book by Sam too! I read mine every month for a year-have it almost memorized (like the Bible). Still reading it!
Stent related that Riggall loaded for the locals. They were knocking the elk & moose deader than last weeks N.Y.times.
His load:
Pull 190 gr. .30 cal. bullets from .303 Savage ammo.
Load 31 Grs. of Dupont 3031 with a std. primer.

You can substitute any cast bullet from 180 to 200 grs. that will fit & feed in a 30-30 rifle. Use a LEE crimp die, as the crimp groove will pobably not line up.

Oh yes...have fun!

LeverBob
30WCF Crazy

That is probably Sam's best book effort. Now asking $68+ a copy, it is still worth every penny. I'm glad I got mine when I did.

Last Spike · Post by **Last Spike** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:59 am

One other thing, it never hurts to have more recipes than you know what to do with. I also had a chance to go through the Levergun articles to see what other recipes there were so what I've received in this thread along with the info in the articles should keep me occupied for some time.

Thanks again!

Harry

180 gr plus loads in the 30-30?

180 gr plus loads in the 30-30?

SIERRA 180 gr. RN

Heavy bullets in the 30-30

Re: Heavy bullets in the 30-30