If you ever do have to shoot in self-defense...

Welcome to the Leverguns.Com Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here ... politely.

Moderators: Hobie, AmBraCol

Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.

Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 25172
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

If you ever do have to shoot in self-defense...

#1 Post by AJMD429 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:29 am

Hadn't heard some of these suggestions before...

http://www.boortz.com/weblogs/nealz-nuz ... -intruder/
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "

User avatar
Hobie
Moderator
Posts: 13891
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:54 pm
Location: Staunton, VA, USA
Contact:

Re: If you ever do have to shoot in self-defense...

#2 Post by Hobie » Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:02 am

If one establishes Rules of Engagement in one's own mind that should require those actions or actions substantially the same as those recommended there will be no need to fake anything. Neal's instructions could be read as if you should fake these things but you should do those things (or something similar dependent on the specific circumstances) in any such action. A rehearsed plan helps you act appropriately. I did put a lawyer's number on my phone.
Sincerely,

Hobie

"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson

User avatar
Pitchy
Posting leader...
Posts: 10788
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:15 am
Location: Minnesooooota

Re: If you ever do have to shoot in self-defense...

#3 Post by Pitchy » Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:01 am

Cool article, i find this statement important.
If you shoot an intruder, especially an unarmed one, come time for explanations you had better be able to clearly articulate his ability and opportunity to cause death or great bodily harm. Also, your reasoning that you or others were in immediate jeopardy of such harm making the use of deadly force necessary.
Because I Can, and Have
-------------------------------------------------------------
USAF-72-76
Friends are just people that will turn on ya some day, Jesus won`t.
Disclaimer, not responsible for anyone copying or building anything i make.
Always consult an expert first.

M. M. Wright
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3620
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:57 pm
Location: Vinita, I.T.

Re: If you ever do have to shoot in self-defense...

#4 Post by M. M. Wright » Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:04 am

Anyone who keeps or carries for self defense should read and study Mas Ayoob's "In The Gravest Extreme". This small book just might keep you out of big trouble. Yeah, it is old but still relevant to today.
M. M. Wright, Sheriff, Green county Arkansas (1860)
Currently living my eternal life.
NRA Life
SASS
ITSASS

jshinal
Levergunner
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:57 pm

Re: If you ever do have to shoot in self-defense...

#5 Post by jshinal » Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:33 am

M. M. Wright wrote:Anyone who keeps or carries for self defense should read and study Mas Ayoob's "In The Gravest Extreme". This small book just might keep you out of big trouble. Yeah, it is old but still relevant to today.
Well said, and seconded. The important thing about Ayoob's book is that it discusses how to think about using deadly force, because it's something we're not commonly experienced in. Learning how to think, when and why to act, and what the consequences and complications are, helps us perform properly in that moment when it's most difficult.

It's like having a plan for a fire drill - having a thought-out plan and practicing it saves lives during an emergency when every split-second is vital.

User avatar
Grizz
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 6964
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:15 pm

Re: If you ever do have to shoot in self-defense...

#6 Post by Grizz » Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:08 pm

I think about this a lot. I have a perimeter fence. No one has the legal right to enter this perimeter without my prior knowledge and consent. The legal mumbo-jumbo is that there is no implied consent for anyone to pass the fence perimeter.

When that happens I am already on security alert, or dog alert, because someone has chosen to illegally grant himself trespass.

If after that trespass someone chooses to batter his way into my dwelling, I am on full mortal defensive alert. No one can bash in my door or window to gain access to my space without causing me to me in mortal fear for my wife's safety and for my life. The act of war that an intruder would use to gain access is already way past my requirement to be in fear for my life and the safety of everyone who shares my house.

The effort and will necessary to intrude is weapon enough to destroy me bare handed. The hostility and effort required to break in is ample evidence of the hostility, bloody intent, and ability to cause my household grave bodily harm and death. My only decision is how much pain, injury, suffering and death do I want to allow the hostile to inflict.

Breaking and entering is a hate crime and should be classified that way. How could it be anything else?

User avatar
Ji in Hawaii
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1903
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:05 pm
Location: Moku Manu, Hawai'i

Re: If you ever do have to shoot in self-defense...

#7 Post by Ji in Hawaii » Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:39 pm

Don't talk to the police watch video --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
Last edited by Ji in Hawaii on Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Illegitimus Non Carborundum
Akā, ʻo ka poʻe hilinaʻi aku iā Iēhova, e ulu hou nō ko lākou ikaika;
E piʻi ʻēheu aku nō lākou i luna, e like me nā ʻaito;
E holo nō lākou, ʻaʻole hoʻi e māloʻeloʻe,
E hele mua nō lākou, ʻaʻole hoʻi e maʻule.
`Isaia 40:31

User avatar
El Chivo
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3597
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:12 pm
Location: An American in California

Re: If you ever do have to shoot in self-defense...

#8 Post by El Chivo » Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:46 pm

unless you get a jury the same color as the perp.
"I'll tell you what living is. You get up when you feel like it. You fry yourself some eggs. You see what kind of a day it is."

Pisgah
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1510
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:01 pm
Location: SC

Re: If you ever do have to shoot in self-defense...

#9 Post by Pisgah » Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:54 pm

While I can agree with the gist of what he's saying, I cannot help but say that making up even the smallest lie about any such episode is foolish in the extreme. In the scenario posed, for example, you and your wife are going to be interrogated separately. I can guarantee there will be some discrepancy between your account and hers, and that is all an investigator needs to dig, dig, dig -- if he has a mind to. In the jurisdiction in which I live, any apparently clear-cut case of self defense is generally investigated more as a formality than anything else, and quickly closed without prosecution; in other jurisdictions, a homeowner shooting an intruder is almost considered guilty of murder until proven otherwise.

Best advice, tell the police you acted in fear of your life, and that you will cooperate fully with their investigation as soon as your attorney is present -- period. Do not lie in any way, shape or fashion.

User avatar
Grizz
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 6964
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:15 pm

Re: If you ever do have to shoot in self-defense...

#10 Post by Grizz » Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:59 pm

Agree. DON'T LIE. DON'T SAY ANYTHING. The only statement I would make is that I was terrified that we were going to die, and I'm too upset to talk now.

I expect I would be too upset to talk. I expect I'd be puking my guts out and shaking like an earthquake.

Grizz

and as Ji says, don't talk to the police.
Last edited by Grizz on Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Griff
Posting leader...
Posts: 18468
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: OH MY GAWD they installed a STOP light!!!

Re: If you ever do have to shoot in self-defense...

#11 Post by Griff » Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:00 pm

As one of the respondents said: "Boortz's "advice" here is dangerous depending on the state you live in."
Griff,
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93

There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!

User avatar
Blaine
Posting leader...
Posts: 27439
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:22 pm
Location: Spanaway, Washington

Re: If you ever do have to shoot in self-defense...

#12 Post by Blaine » Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:44 pm

A tip I got long ago said to call 911, and plead for an ambulance because you were forced to shoot someone threatening your life, and he needs help (whether or not he's already dead is beside the point). Then shut the hell up until you have a lawyer at your side. The police are hard wired to make an arrest at this point.
A Man's Manners Are A Mirror In Which He Shares His Portrait. :idea:

"He Who knows himself a braggart let him fear this, for it will come to pass that every braggart shall be found an azzhole."

Larkbill
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 430
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:31 pm
Location: St Peters, Mo.

Re: If you ever do have to shoot in self-defense...

#13 Post by Larkbill » Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:58 pm

According to my CCW instructor there are only three things you say to the police until your lawyer is present:

1.Oh my gosh, I thought I was going to die!

2. Is that guy I had to shoot ok?

3. Are you getting help for him?
___________________________________________________________________
I'm not paranoid because I carry a gun. Why should I be paranoid. I've got a gun.

User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 25172
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Re: If you ever do have to shoot in self-defense...

#14 Post by AJMD429 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:47 pm

Larkbill wrote:According to my CCW instructor there are only three things you say to the police until your lawyer is present:

1.Oh my gosh, I thought I was going to die!

2. Is that guy I had to shoot ok?

3. Are you getting help for him?
Yep pretty much what Ayoob says, too.

I didn't get the impression Boortz was saying to lie about anything though, but just to be sure to verbalize and demonstrate your concern for the bad guy.
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "

User avatar
Sixgun
Posting leader...
Posts: 12017
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:17 pm
Location: Where Good 'Ole Donald Trump Is #1 And Slugs Are Ignored

Re: If you ever do have to shoot in self-defense...

#15 Post by Sixgun » Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:20 pm

Grizz wrote:Agree. DON'T LIE. DON'T SAY ANYTHING. The only statement I would make is that I was terrified that we were going to die, and I'm too upset to talk now.

I expect I would be too upset to talk. I expect I'd be puking my guts out and shaking like an earthquake.

Grizz

and as Ji says, don't talk to the police.
Right! Only an idiot would use deadly force if he was not in real fear of his or his families life. So..........if you justifiably used force, just shut your mouth until the trial comes up.......because you know thats coming.--------Sixgun
Single Action Colts. Poof! Poof!

Image
14 and Counting

2571
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1168
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:59 pm
Location: detroit

Re: If you ever do have to shoot in self-defense...

#16 Post by 2571 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:31 pm

El Chivo wrote:unless you get a jury the same color as the perp.
Inappropriate remark for this forum.

User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 25172
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Re: If you ever do have to shoot in self-defense...

#17 Post by AJMD429 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:47 pm

2571 wrote:
El Chivo wrote:unless you get a jury the same color as the perp.
Inappropriate remark for this forum.
I won't judge the appropriateness of the remark for the forum, but I can definitely attest to the sad-but-true-ness of the remark. We live in an extremely divisive society of late, because once the government learns to broker money and power by picking winners and by transferring 'wealth', resentments and hostilities grow rapidly. We can thank the LibTards and our 'inclusive' Bobo for this...white vs. black, old vs. young, collge-educated vs. not, men vs. women, urban vs. rural, hippie vs. redneck, rich vs. poor...NONE of these need to be 'conflicts', but they all are nowdays, thanks to a government which thrives on conflict. :evil:
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "

User avatar
horsesoldier03
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1783
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 7:32 pm
Location: Kansas

Re: If you ever do have to shoot in self-defense...

#18 Post by horsesoldier03 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:24 pm

If I just shot the guy, I would not be administering CPR. I would call an ambulance. If I am not mistaken, Police officers are not required to give CPR after a shooting, but they will call EMS. If I am not mistaken, it is against most departments policy for them to provide aid. IMO, a good lawyer could turn it around and say that you were afraid your shooting wasnt justified so you then tried to save his life.

+1 with what others have stated regarding, ONLY SHOOT IF YOU ARE 100% certain there is an immediate threat to your life or the life of a loved one.
“Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.”

User avatar
rusty gunns
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 140
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 3:12 pm

Re: If you ever do have to shoot in self-defense...

#19 Post by rusty gunns » Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:51 pm

Sixgun wrote:
Grizz wrote:Agree. DON'T LIE. DON'T SAY ANYTHING. The only statement I would make is that I was terrified that we were going to die, and I'm too upset to talk now.

I expect I would be too upset to talk. I expect I'd be puking my guts out and shaking like an earthquake.

Grizz

and as Ji says, don't talk to the police.
Right! Only an idiot would use deadly force if he was not in real fear of his, or his families life. So..........if you justifiably used force, just shut your mouth until the trial comes up.......because you know thats coming.--------Sixgun

I'm a retired police officer from Long Island, New York, so let me offer some input here.
If you shoot this mutt simply because he got on your property and Pi**ed you off, you're probably not going to survive this unscathed.

If you are a right thinking person, when he forced his way into your house, you were scared. I would be. You honestly believed he meant deadly harm to you and your family.

If you don't think he did, squirt him with wasp spray (A truly excellent home protection non lethal weapon, by the way) and heave him through the window.

If you think he's going to try to kill you and yours, then shoot. And shoot to kill.
Call the police and your lawyer. In that order.

If Cpr, or any first aid seems appropriate, then go ahead, but when the police get there you say only that he was going to kill you, and you were in fear of your life (And it isn't a lie) then say something like. "Respectfully, officer, I just spoke to my lawyer. He said that I can't say anything to you."

You can give him your name, date of birth, all your pedigree, but if ANYONE asks about the incident repeat "Respectfully, sir, my lawyer told me I can't talk about this until he is with me."

And never lie. As mentioned, cops, then detectives, then homicide detectives will be "interviewing" you and anyone else that saw anything for hours. Lies dribble out. Things made up never fit together. And should you get caught in one single lie, you are so screwed. And things said before your lawyer gets here can not be sucked back in. My dad used to say "You can't unring the bell"

I hope it never happens, and my views are far from Gospel, but from my personal experience I have found.

Be right, be truthful, be respectful and cooperative to the cops, (Even though some may act like they think you're a murderer, don't get into defending yourself to him) be steadfast in waiting for your lawyer.

Just my opinion.
The problem using historical quotes in your signature is that there is no way to verify its authenticity.
-Abraham Lincoln

Pair of Colt 73 44-40 (1897)
Parker Bros 10 Gauge (1878)
Winchester 73 44-40 (1881)
Marlin 89 38-40 (1891) Marlin 89 44-40 (1891)
Win 92 38-40 (1892)
Win 92 Short Rifle 44-40 (1901)

User avatar
Grizz
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 6964
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:15 pm

Re: If you ever do have to shoot in self-defense...

#20 Post by Grizz » Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:58 pm

Right! Only an idiot would use deadly force if he was not in real fear of his or his families life. So..........if you justifiably used force, just shut your mouth until the trial comes up.......because you know thats coming.--------Sixgun
Actually, hard to believe, but in WA self defense shootings, if a DA decides to bring charges and the defendant is acquitted in a jury trial, the state has to pick up all of the trial costs, including all the defendant's costs. It puts a real damper on frivolous prosecutions by ambitious corrupt DA's.

Crazy, eh? a pro-citizen law.

Grizz

piller
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8748
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:49 pm
Location: South of Dallas

Re: If you ever do have to shoot in self-defense...

#21 Post by piller » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:20 am

If I have to shoot someone, I will be demanding that the Cops arrest him. Until time of death is called, he isn't officially dead, and I am not qualified to give that official time. If I must shoot, I will shoot until the threat is stopped. Again, I am not qualified to officially call the time of death.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost

User avatar
El Chivo
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3597
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:12 pm
Location: An American in California

Re: If you ever do have to shoot in self-defense...

#22 Post by El Chivo » Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:14 am

2571 wrote:
El Chivo wrote:unless you get a jury the same color as the perp.
Inappropriate remark for this forum.
I disagree. Ignoring reality will not help you in this situation. In a ladies' tea party, fine. In a shooting situation, no. That's what we're discussing here.

Notice I didn't say what color - or did you do that for me? I would imagine it's a valid concern for a black homeowner shooting a white criminal in the south as well as the reverse.
"I'll tell you what living is. You get up when you feel like it. You fry yourself some eggs. You see what kind of a day it is."

gimdandy
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 225
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:04 pm
Location: Idaho

Re: If you ever do have to shoot in self-defense...

#23 Post by gimdandy » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:35 pm

M. M. Wright wrote:Anyone who keeps or carries for self defense should read and study Mas Ayoob's "In The Gravest Extreme". This small book just might keep you out of big trouble. Yeah, it is old but still relevant to today.
best said

BAGTIC
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 648
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:37 pm

Re: If you ever do have to shoot in self-defense...

#24 Post by BAGTIC » Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:45 am

Grizz wrote:
Right! Only an idiot would use deadly force if he was not in real fear of his or his families life. So..........if you justifiably used force, just shut your mouth until the trial comes up.......because you know thats coming.--------Sixgun
Actually, hard to believe, but in WA self defense shootings, if a DA decides to bring charges and the defendant is acquitted in a jury trial, the state has to pick up all of the trial costs, including all the defendant's costs. It puts a real damper on frivolous prosecutions by ambitious corrupt DA's.

Crazy, eh? a pro-citizen law.

Grizz
I have set on six trial juries in my life and I can assure you there are some jurors who would vote to convict just so the taxpayers would not get stuck with the lawyer's bill.

User avatar
Grizz
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 6964
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:15 pm

Re: If you ever do have to shoot in self-defense...

#25 Post by Grizz » Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:15 pm

BAGTIC wrote:
Grizz wrote:
Right! Only an idiot would use deadly force if he was not in real fear of his or his families life. So..........if you justifiably used force, just shut your mouth until the trial comes up.......because you know thats coming.--------Sixgun
Actually, hard to believe, but in WA self defense shootings, if a DA decides to bring charges and the defendant is acquitted in a jury trial, the state has to pick up all of the trial costs, including all the defendant's costs. It puts a real damper on frivolous prosecutions by ambitious corrupt DA's.

Crazy, eh? a pro-citizen law.

Grizz
I have set on six trial juries in my life and I can assure you there are some jurors who would vote to convict just so the taxpayers would not get stuck with the lawyer's bill.
That's fine as long as YOU are there to vote acquit.

mohavesam
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 323
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:40 am
Location: Rugerville AZ USA

Re: If you ever do have to shoot in self-defense...

#26 Post by mohavesam » Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:43 pm

BTDT. Just have a lawyer first. The cost of being in a shooting is astounding and even facing a civil trial 2 years later is a money pit one doesn't read about in magazines.

What I know now that I will share:
1. If you're gonna carry a gun, have a GOOD attorney on retainer.
2. Never carry a gun that leaves cases all over the scene. (revolver bias here).
3. Get ready for a long, long ride with your family's name "in the papers".
4. Never assume your wife or kid won't be the shooter. (train for after the shot).
- Oh yeah, you might consider having your gun collection located somewhere other than your primary residence. (search warrant advice here).

It's been over 20 years and I still lose my appetite thinking about it.
I'm positive God created the universe... I'm just not convinced He had any choice in the matter.
-A. Einstein

BAGTIC
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 648
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:37 pm

Re: If you ever do have to shoot in self-defense...

#27 Post by BAGTIC » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:37 pm

Grizz wrote:
BAGTIC wrote:
Grizz wrote:
Right! Only an idiot would use deadly force if he was not in real fear of his or his families life. So..........if you justifiably used force, just shut your mouth until the trial comes up.......because you know thats coming.--------Sixgun
Actually, hard to believe, but in WA self defense shootings, if a DA decides to bring charges and the defendant is acquitted in a jury trial, the state has to pick up all of the trial costs, including all the defendant's costs. It puts a real damper on frivolous prosecutions by ambitious corrupt DA's.

Crazy, eh? a pro-citizen law.

Grizz
I have set on six trial juries in my life and I can assure you there are some jurors who would vote to convict just so the taxpayers would not get stuck with the lawyer's bill.
That's fine as long as YOU are there to vote acquit.
I was the odd man out in three of these trials twice holding out for acquital and once for conviction. Although it is a common theme in movies in real life a principled juror is the exception. More likely you'll hear "I'll go along with whatever the rest of you decide as long as I'm home in time to prepare my husband's supper"; "We have already acquited them of the first charge and if we don't convict them of something the trial will have been a waste of taxpayer's money."; That policeman is an *** and I would not convict anyone he arrested"; "He is a nice old man without any money, left them catch drunk drivers in frount of the country club on Wednesday nights', "The defendants have lots of maoney and good insurance so let the insurance company pay for it. It won't break them." These are real examples. Notice that guilt or innocence did not play any part in these decisions.

User avatar
Grizz
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 6964
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:15 pm

Re: If you ever do have to shoot in self-defense...

#28 Post by Grizz » Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:19 pm

I did the same thing on a jury trial. I proved to the jury that the ada and a cop were trying to railroad someone and falsifying video evidence. I said there's no way to convict and the guy across the table slammed it and said "he's guilty as hell and I'm gonna send him to jail.?"

I just smiled and said "no, you're not." I was joined by someone who caught on to what the setup was and that was that. It delighted me no end to tell the little you-know-what what I thought about his farce.

speaking of jury duty, I hope all have internalized this info:

http://www.fija.org/docs/JG_Jurors_Handbook.pdf

http://www.fija.org/docs/JG_on_the_grand_jury.pdf

it's the only place left where we can exercise actual liberty.

Hannah_M_Padilla
Levergunner
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:54 am

Re: If you ever do have to shoot in self-defense...

#29 Post by Hannah_M_Padilla » Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:58 am

Hey, the link to the Jurors' Handbook is broken. I've found the file on another website: https://www.templateroller.com/template ... duane.html

User avatar
Grizz
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 6964
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:15 pm

Re: If you ever do have to shoot in self-defense...

#30 Post by Grizz » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:30 pm

thanks for fixing that!

wm
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1080
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:03 pm

Re: If you ever do have to shoot in self-defense...

#31 Post by wm » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:39 am

Ayoob is a great resource for this.

I have always followed his A O J framework for evaluating threats. Does the person threatening me have the Ability, Opportunity, Jeopardy to hurt me? If he does then it is go time.

Massad Ayoob "Judicious Use Of Deadly Force" forward to 38 minutes in the video to get to that specific element. But the whole thing is well worth watching a couple times a year as a refresher

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j4PS_8R5IE&t=4413s


Wm.

User avatar
jeepnik
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 5497
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:39 pm
Location: On the Beach

Re: If you ever do have to shoot in self-defense...

#32 Post by jeepnik » Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:27 pm

Lots of opinions. Has anyone posted experienced any of these situations?

Advice from the guy I'll call to protect me is simple. Call 911, call him. Follow the instructions of police but do not make "any" statement until he gets there.
Jeepnik AKA "Old Eyes"
"Go low, go slow and preferrably in the dark"
"Freedom is never more that a generation from extinction" Ronald Reagan
"Every man should have at least one good rifle and know how to use it"

User avatar
Blaine
Posting leader...
Posts: 27439
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:22 pm
Location: Spanaway, Washington

Re: If you ever do have to shoot in self-defense...

#33 Post by Blaine » Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:05 pm

Sit down, gun close but not in your hand. Hands up when they tell you....And SHUTUP until you're with a lawyer.
A Man's Manners Are A Mirror In Which He Shares His Portrait. :idea:

"He Who knows himself a braggart let him fear this, for it will come to pass that every braggart shall be found an azzhole."

wm
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1080
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:03 pm

Re: If you ever do have to shoot in self-defense...

#34 Post by wm » Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:05 pm

Depends on what you mean by experience. I always joke that I have won every gun fight that I have avoided. Ayoobs teachings has given me confidence in evaluating situations in which things were bad but not as bad as they could be. I've never regretted keeping my cool. And in retrospect keeping my cool has defused more then a few situations.

Knock on wood I have never had to fire my handgun in self defense. I was never one of those gun shop commandos who utter the phrase 'I hope some bast**** tries it on me. I'll blow him away!' but I had a more bravado in my 20s then I do in my 50s. I realize now that I'd rather not be inconvenienced with what follows a shooting.

Wm

User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 25172
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Re: If you ever do have to shoot in self-defense...

#35 Post by AJMD429 » Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:44 pm

I only had to 'use' a gun for self/family defense twice, and no shots were fired, so there was no 'shooting' thankfully. Like wm, I've potentially used one a few other times, but avoided even having to unholster, despite being shoved up against a wall, gotten spit on, or being robbed. Actually a couple times it got to the point that gun was in-hand, but still concealed. One was during a pharmacy hold-up; the stupid punk never knew how close he came to a lethal pneumothorax and bleedout, perhaps along with a severed spine, because he turned his back several times.
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "

guido4198
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1033
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:08 am
Location: S. E. Florida

Re: If you ever do have to shoot in self-defense...

#36 Post by guido4198 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:20 am

Coupla things come to mind on this topic. Some have already been posted, some not, so here goes:
1. NEVER lie to the investigating officers. If you feel like you need to lie to the cops after you've shot someone...it most likely wasn't an appropriate use of deadly force. The best response is NO response without your lawyer present.
2. NEVER shoot to kill. Never refer to "killing". Deadly force may only be used to terminate the threat. Once the threat is neutralized, continued use of deadly force is a crime.
And the BIG ONE:
3. Be Advised that if you are ever taken into court for any shooting incident....every word that you've ever posted on an internet forum or "social media" page may be dredged up and entered into evidence. It NEVER GOES AWAY.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: harry, ngreenwell and 5 guests