Alaska - rifles and COLD storage

[JohndeFresno]

Levergunners,
In Wolfe Publishing's "Successful Hunter Magazine" magazine number 60 (November/December 2012), Phil Shoemaker wrote a fascinating article, "Rifles in Alaska." It talks a bit about the history of homesteaders and choices in armament, among other things.

In that piece he states:
"At the close of World War I, ...a territorial commission published an information packet for prospective homesteaders..." that advised homesteaders:

"Those intending to hunt north of 620 or in any place where the temperature will be 250 below or lower, the gun should be taken apart (screw spring and all), every particle of gun grease removed, and every piece wiped thoroughly dry. Then moisten the fingers with three-in-one or nitro-solvent oil, pass the pieces through the fingers, making sure that the oil is applied to every part lightly so that it rests in the pores of the steel.

"Never take a gun into the tent or cabin, except to leave it there long enough to become warm, when all of the sweat should be wiped off. Guns left in the cold—never taken in—will remain in good working order. When they are finally put away, clean thoroughly and then incase heavily with gun grease."

For those of you who hunt with icicles on your noses, how do y'all store your guns? Are there new compounds, perhaps like Prolix, that allow you to bring in your firearms, or do you still have to endure the laborious process described above?

[Booger Bill]

250 below? Wow thats close to being in outer space! Think I read it gets about 300 below there. Got to mean -25 below?
I have read simular though.

[JB]

250 below? Wow thats close to being in outer space! Think I read it gets about 300 below there. Got to mean -25 below?
I have read simular though.

Yea, I'm guessing that's a typo. I agree about leaving the gun in the cold though. It's the condensation after bringing the gun into the warmth that can cause big issues.

[Pitchy]

Another plus for the SAA, autos can get so stiff they won`t work.
Of coarse ya can always carry your 1911 in your underwear to be sure it fires more than once
Never bring a ML in the warmth from the cold loaded or it won`t fire .
My lever guns just get a good wipe down with a oily rag after a trek in cold temps when i bring it in.

[JohndeFresno]

...so, things have not changed much!

I rechecked the magazine. It indeed says "250" - at least the pdf version of the magazine that I subscribe to online.

My guess is that the "250" was misinterpreted by the publisher, or maybe the software that translated the mag into an online pdf, when the author used "25" followed by the little suspended zero - the "degrees" mark.

Thank y'all for your input!

[Trailboss]

It is quite probable that the temperature will reach -80 below in some areas and wind chill will need to be subtracted from that. -80 minus another 50 for wind chill = -130 degress F is quite possible and in some areas probable.

[handirifle]

All I can say, is if I am hunting somewhere where the temps are -25 or lower taking the gun in and out will NOT be an issue. Me the gun and a good book are all staying indoors until the temps get somewhere closer to zero.

[earlmck]

The only time that's a concern around here is during elk hunting. All us boys do leave our guns out in the cab of the truck so they never get warmed up. And yes, we've certainly got 'em pretty well degreased and lubed very lightly to keep them working should we get some below zero stuff.

[Pitchy]

The year of 1996 it was 59 below actual temp, ya could throw a cup of coffee in the air and it would go puff in a cloud of vapor.
Don`t know that that has anything to do with this topic because i wasn`t outside with any of my guns.

[Gobblerforge]

Once my hunting iron goes outside in cold weather, it doesn't come back inside until I'm done hunting. I just lean it up against the barn or by the front door of the house where there is a roof so no precipitation can get to it. If you have to bring cold iron into warm, moist air, then put into a cold gun case and leave it there. The gun will not be exposed to a transfer of air and will warm up very slowly with the case and condensation should not happen.
Stay thirsty my friend,
Gobbler

[Malamute]

I dont do anything special when out in the cold. None of my guns have much lube in them at any time anyway. I take mine in and out of the cold, I just wipe them down with a dry rag when they sweat, and run a dry patch thru the bore once in a while if they sweat heavily. I get out nearly every day for a short while with the dog, so if its 10 below, oh well. Once inside, they are in and warm up, so the condensation isnt going to freeze in the action, which is the main problem with condensation causing problems, other than the gun being wet as it dries.

[bgmkithaca]

I can testify to degreaseing for cold temperature. Back in 69' caribou hunting in the Denali wilderness east of Cantwell, AK.
It got pretty cold and our rifles would not fire. Mine didn't even dent the primer until things warmed up some. Don't know how cold it was that morning but we got stuck to the rocks while relieving ourselves-LOL

[piller]

It all sounds reasonable that you would want little to no lube in weather that cold. The wind chill would have no effect on the gun. I halfway wonder about some of the new lubes that you spray on and they dry up to a thin film of a waxy teflon coat that is pretty slick. Would it work in 50 below zero temps, or would it bet stiff and brittle?

[GoatGuy]

I can testify to degreaseing for cold temperature. Back in 69' caribou hunting in the Denali wilderness east of Cantwell, AK.
It got pretty cold and our rifles would not fire. Mine didn't even dent the primer until things warmed up some. Don't know how cold it was that morning but we got stuck to the rocks while relieving ourselves-LOL

This is one post that I'm glad there are no pictures to accompany the telling of that happenstance.

Never have hunted in weather so cold that my rifle wouldn't work, but would expect keeping grease or heavy oil on them would work against good function at such temps. Sluggish firing pin strikes and such.

During winter months now my hands, and most particularly my fingers, get so cold anymore even with gloves fit for shooting, that hunting in northern climes just isn't in the cards for me at this point. Wish I had taken a caribou hunt years ago. Always wanted to tag one of those critters.

[mod71alaska]

I think the right gun lubrication always is important, but especially in extreme cold. When I lived in Alaska I always carried a rifle or 870 shotgun with me in the plane and on the snow machine. I hunted caribou camping out in temperatures as low as -45. (-45 F was as cold as you could fly the Super Cub with an air cooled engine.). The lubricant I used on my firearms was "Triflon"...a light weight lubricant with suspended Teflon. The lubricating properties were superior in extreme cold. I actually used it on my firearms year round because of Triflon's excellent water dispersing properties also. (Today I believe Triflon is marketed under the name "TriFlo", but I only can speak first hand about Triflon.)

Coming into a warm environment from the cold...and it doesn't have to be extreme cold...can cause condensation on your firearm and rust problems. The solution I found is simple: I aways put my firearm in a breathable, synthetic fleece lined case when going from cold to warm and let it warm up slowly to room temperature inside the case. No additional care is necessary. That also will prevent your rifle's wood stock from cracking. I lived a year in a remote log cabin in AK and that's what I did with no condensation, rust, or stock cracking problems at all, and I always brought my rifle into the cabin when it was cold. I don't like leaving my rifle outside for any number of reasons, not the least of which is safety and the loss of immediate access to it. In some places the safety issues are other people...especially children; in Alaska leaving a firearm outside also means the loss of your bear protection, which quickly can become a survival situation.

The maintenance and use of firearms are different from place to place, but the one constant to both is firearm responsibility and that is what we are talking about in the context of cold weather. I am a big believer in thinking through situational "what ifs". In the extreme cold of Alaska, what if my 71 or 870 failed to fire when I pulled the trigger? So, I lubricated my rifle and shotgun with Triflon and carried Triflon in my emergency pack in the plane. What if I left my rifle or shotgun outside leaning against the cabin...and a bear came up on the porch...or my friend unexpectedly flew in and his children came running up to the cabin first...or I saw a 60 inch moose through the window and the 71 was outside? Then and now...I always bring my firearm inside with me, and when it's cold I bring it inside in a breathable fleece lined case to avoid any condensation.

Enjoy your cold weather hunting!

mod71alaska

[JohndeFresno]

Thank you, everybody. Great pieces of advice.

[stew71]

That's why I live in California.

[Ben_Rumson]

They must have had something that worked pretty good in the sub zero temps at high altitude over Europe in WWII.. They wouldn't want 500 .5" Brownings in a bomber formations not firing.... I know the 8th Air Force lubed their instruments with Sperm Oil so they'd keep operating in the sub zero temps encountered at High altitudes... I guess the AAF didn't memo the Marines in Korea...They wound up using Vitalis hair oil at the Frozen Chosin to stay operational in place of whatever they were using before that...

[Malamute]

Is Triflon similar to Break Free? I think both are teflon bearing. I've used mainly break free, but generally lubing very sparingly. Similar to the " oil film on your skin" idea mentioned earlier.

I haven't been out in the level of cold that's found in Alaska, but down to 10-20 below, I haven't had any troubles.

I had some small rust spots form from condensation, which is why I dry them off when bringing them in. haven't had any trouble since simply drying them off with a simple dry, absorbant cotton rag after they sweat. Have used paper towels and fast food napkins, and sleeves also.

[7.62 Precision]

In Alaska we don't really count wind chill in temperatures, and it makes no difference to firearms (I know in places like the midwest or north east, many times when people talk about temps you have to subtract the wind chill to get actual temp).

The big deal with cold is with the firing pin and spring in bolt rifles. They should be dry, or lubed with something like Militec and wiped down prior to going into winter. Even at warmer temperatures like -10 or -15, bolt rifles can misfire due to lube in the bolt. I have known many people who missed a chance to get their meat because of this.

Many Leverguns tend to be more forgiving in the cold, but still I would lean toward lubing more lightly, or with the right modern lubes during winter. Probably more issues are likely with the newer Japanchesters with their firing pin springs and rebounding hammers.

For semi-autos, it depends on the design how they should be lubed - again the right lube helps.

As some have said, it can help with warming a rifle to warm it in a case, but keep in mind that they can still get very frosty (and then wet) inside a case, depending on circumstances. I mainly just dry it off if I am going into a house, or leave it cold if it is staying in a vehicle or I am outside in a sleeping bag, or sometimes a tent.

[bdhold]

I've been on the north slope in December, and 10 below is intolerable, while 40 below is comfortable.
At least at 40 below, cold and clear, you can walk between buildings in your shirtsleeves because you're carrying a film of warm air against your body.
10 below, however, is accompanied by 40 to 50 knot winds. We were in a stage II blow, requiring caravan driving, and visibility was below 20 feet. Our driver drove off the burm and we had to evacuate to the next vehicle. Full survival layers and triple socks. Had to walk 120 feet to the vehicle and for every two steps forward, the wind pushed me one step back. My feet were cold for four hours.
Of note, the Inuit bus drivers there wear short sleeves in winter.

[JohndeFresno]

I've been on the north slope in December, and 10 below is intolerable, while 40 below is comfortable...10 below, however, is accompanied by 40 to 50 knot winds...My feet were cold for four hours...

Wow.

...Of note, the Inuit bus drivers there wear short sleeves in winter.

And...Wow.

Great posts, guys.

[7.62 Precision]

I was drilling in the canyon leading into Valdez working on the flood repair one year. It was only between 10 and 15 below, 20 below a couple times, but the wind was whipping through the canyon so bad that there was no way to stay warm. I wore everything I had. Usually, you can stand behind the oil cooler radiator on the drill and you will be intolerably hot in a few minutes from the hot air that is blasted through the cooler. The wind was so strong that winter, that it blew forward, through the cooler and the fan, out the front of the drill. Even if I faced the drill into the wind, so much wind came through the drill and out through the oil cooler that the air was cold. 12 hours a day standing in that wind - I have never been so cold on any job. I hardly ate because it was so miserable to try to do anything that I just didn't eat. Besides, anything I tried to cook on the exhaust manifold would stay cold or even frozen on the top side, even if the part against the manifold burned. I had trouble finding a way to thaw drinks.

Toward the end of the job, I moved up into the pass for a few days. It was 40 below and maybe 15-25 knot winds, and I was warm.

[7.62 Precision]

Of note, the Inuit bus drivers there wear short sleeves in winter.

Eat seal and you will know why.

[JohndeFresno]

Coldest temperature in California
-45 degrees Fahrenheit
January 20, 1937
Boca, California

I guess I had better quit complaining when the weather gets "unseasonably cold" here.

[KirkD]

In my teen years, I used to hunt every day in the winter and the temperature in central Canada would often be more than 30 degrees below zero, sometimes 40 below and once, 50 below zero. I kept the gun in the house. There was no problem taking it outside into the cold. When I came in, the rifle would instantly become incased in hoar frost until it warmed up to room temperature. The inside of the house had very low humidity in the winter. I cleaned and oiled it regularly with a light oil. Nowdays, I put my more expensive, vintage Winchesters in a gun case before coming inside, and let them sit in the case for a couple hours so that no condensation forms on the metal.

[Grizzly Adams]

I spent 25 years in the Alaskan bush. I always degreased my lever guns prior to winter use. When I returned home, the rifle was left on the unheated entry porch (lockable) where I would pick it up for the next day in the field. When finished for the season, I did as Mod71Alaska did, and placed the rifle in a case and let it warm up gradually. Pistols (and cameras), I placed in a zip lock back, pushed the air out, and sealed prior to bringing them into a warm house.