.30 carbine... Am I missing something?

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Panzercat
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.30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by Panzercat »

Like any other cartridge, I couldn't help but to note the cult following around the .30 carbine, to the point where there have even been 1911 pattern pistols designed around the cartridge. My question is why? What am I missing in the cartridge specs that elevate this round somewhere above thoroughly average? granted there's not a whole lot of useful, real life data out on the interwebs besides its history, so I figured I'd ask all yas...

...The .30 Carbine. Why :?:
...Proud owner of the 11.43×23mm automatic using depleted Thorium rounds.
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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by Rusty »

It's pretty close to a .32-20 on paper.

They were a lot more fun to shoot when ammo was cheap.
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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by damienph »

I use mine mostly for taking coyote targets of opportunity. I handload 90gr XTPs in my Blackhawk and 110 JSPs and JHPs in my 1943 Inland M1 Carbine. It's easy to load for, accurate and fun to shoot.

Image
Image

I think that the 30 Carbine might be one of those "if you have to ask..." questions.

I've always wanted to shoot one of the AMT Automag III pistols. Now that would be (should be) fun!
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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by AJMD429 »

damienph wrote:I think that the 30 Carbine might be one of those "if you have to ask..." questions.
If you have to ask, you have to ask twice, because the two guys I know who had them were darned near deaf from shooting them... loudest handguns ever I've heard...

...kinda cool, though. :wink:
Last edited by AJMD429 on Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by damienph »

AJMD429 wrote:
damienph wrote:I think that the 30 Carbine might be one of those "if you have to ask..." questions.
If you have to ask, you have to ask twice, because the two guys I know who had them were darned near deaf from shooting them... loudest handguns ever I've heard...
WHAT?
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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by Old Ironsights »

damienph wrote:I use mine mostly for taking coyote targets of opportunity. I handload 90gr XTPs in my Blackhawk and 110 JSPs and JHPs in my 1943 Inland M1 Carbine. It's easy to load for, accurate and fun to shoot.

I think that the 30 Carbine might be one of those "if you have to ask..." questions.

I've always wanted to shoot one of the AMT Automag III pistols. Now that would be (should be) fun!
Doesn't that carrying handle double the weight of that revolver???
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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by InTheWoods »

Seems like many, many folks (including me) on this site adore their 32-20s and nobody questions why. I have a Browning 53 in 32-20 and an IBM carbine and love shooting both. Both have the same power and serve the same general purposes around my place (fun shooting, pest shooting, etc.). The .30 carbine also sits 'magazine loaded' in a corner not far from the front door for 'security' purposes (loaded with Remington soft points).
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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by pwl44m »

Maybe not so much the Caliber as the Gun for Me (I would be down for 20 for that word), U mentioned History and I suppose that does it for Me. They are easy to load and don't take much powder and a Hoot ta Shoot. I have an Older Dakota in 30 carbine and YES they r loud.
So if U don't have one- get one- then report back, with Pics of course.
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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by MrMurphy »

Single most produced weapon of the entire history of the US Armed Forces until the advent of the M16 (which, after forty years, eventually passed it). Been around forever, loaded with SP it's about as powerful as a .357 with a lot more rounds.


Never saw the need for one in a pistol except maybe as a companion to the M1 carbine, but hey.... most calibers out there aren't a 'need'.

I wouldn't mind a .30 carbine, they're handy and reliable, but they're also not cheap anymore.......
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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by jeepnik »

MrMurphy wrote:Single most produced weapon of the entire history of the US Armed Forces until the advent of the M16 (which, after forty years, eventually passed it). Been around forever, loaded with SP it's about as powerful as a .357 with a lot more rounds.


Never saw the need for one in a pistol except maybe as a companion to the M1 carbine, but hey.... most calibers out there aren't a 'need'.

I wouldn't mind a .30 carbine, they're handy and reliable, but they're also not cheap anymore.......
Yep, and LeMay bought the darned M16 to replace the aging M1 carbines the USAF got when they became a separate service. I know the USAF still had some as late as 1977, and I qualified with one in 1972. Never saw any M2's except for one someone shortened on both ends. Loud litte machine pistol.
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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by 2ndovc »

Lite and accurate little carbines. Perfect for kids and ladies to learn and shoot semi-autos.

I had six or seven at one time, but sold them off when they got pricey.
Kept the early Winchester to go with my Winchester M1.

I haven't taken anything bigger than woodchucks but woouldn't feel undergunned
in the North East woods with one and pocket full of spare mags.

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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by rjohns94 »

I thought they made perfect frog guns. :lol:
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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by M. M. Wright »

I was issued a Winchester M2 in 1962. They actually let me check it out and take it for several airings. Shot mostly armadillos with it. Fort Hood TX don't you know. We'd get ammo in clips with the rubber boot on top, just throw it away and shoot the mag empty then release it to the ground. Never thought about picking one up. If you tried real hard it would keep everything in about 8 inches at 100 yards. Deer seemed to run on forever when shot with one. Course that was with FMJ.
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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by Marvin S »

I used to have one of the AMT auto mag 30 carbine pistols and with ball ammo it was very loud and had a muzzle flash the size of a 50gal drum.
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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by 1894c »

damienph wrote:
AJMD429 wrote:
damienph wrote:I think that the 30 Carbine might be one of those "if you have to ask..." questions.
If you have to ask, you have to ask twice, because the two guys I know who had them were darned near deaf from shooting them... loudest handguns ever I've heard...
WHAT?
Huh...you say something... :O
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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by damienph »

Old Ironsights wrote:Doesn't that carrying handle double the weight of that revolver???
What the scope does for me is more than double the effective range that I can shoot it at.

I also have a scoped 7 1/2" Super Blackhawk that I am much more confident taking longer shots at deer than with my (non-scoped) 4 5/8" SBH.
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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by wolfdog »

Out of a carbine the little 30 will take deer cleanly out to 100 yards with 110 grain softpoints. Only thing I killed with my blackhawk when I had it was aradillos, it blew them up pretty good.
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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by JB »

Out of a carbine the little 30 will take deer cleanly out to 100 yards with 110 grain softpoints.
I think you're spot on with the softpoints and 100 yard range. When I was a kid I knew a number of good ol boys loaded them up with hardball and thought they were long range deer rifles. There were a lot of wounded deer running around!

With the right handloads they're an o.k. handgun round, but you getting a lot of flash with minimal return with slow burning rifle rounds in a short barreled revolver.
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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by alnitak »

As others have said...

They have a classic look, don't break and shoot in any conditions, great for wife and kids as far as recoil, reasonably accurate (pie plate at 100 yds with open sights), easy to reload, and with 110 soft points, are a handy, maneuverable HD weapon...and are just plain fun to shoot!
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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by gak »

alnitak wrote:As others have said...

They have a classic look, don't break and shoot in any conditions, great for wife and kids as far as recoil, reasonably accurate (pie plate at 100 yds with open sights), easy to reload, and with 110 soft points, are a handy, maneuverable HD weapon...and are just plain fun to shoot!
Well summarized. I've owned/shot an original (one owner -us, no-refit) '44 Inland for fifty years without a hitch (other than a brief bout of lousy ammo and a few misguided aftermarket mag purchases years back) Great gun. Used to go with me anywhere I would take a long gun "just because" - as camp SD/HD and aforementioned plinking fun and very effective pest'ing duty - 'til I retired it (as daily duty) for a very decent import '43/post-war refit Inland I don't feel as bad about banging up. Both are on my short list of "wouldn't part with" guns.
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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by cas »

Panzercat wrote:
...The .30 Carbine. Why :?:

Some people actually enjoy shooting and do it for fun.
Slow is just slow.
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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by Rusty »

... also, Jim Cirrillo, who was on the NYPD stakeout team for a number of years claimed the .30 carbine in G.I. form was the best long gun they ever used when loaded with softpoints.
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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by hfcable »

for me, at least, one of the handiest and most naturally pointable [ is that a word? is that the word?] i have ever tried. great balance, etc. kinda like the ruger 10/22

wish it was made in .357
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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by Ji in Hawaii »

Because it was available in a levergun (to keep on topic) the Marlin model 62! :D

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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by hfcable »

i have one of those, and it is fast and slick and accurate!!
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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by AJMD429 »

Friends Call Me Ji wrote:Because it was available in a levergun (to keep on topic) the Marlin model 62! :D

Image
That's almost as 'ugly' as my Ruger 96... :wink: 8)

Interestingly, when I was looking at getting a .32-20 barrel for a suppressed 200-grain bullet-dispenser, the .30 Carbine came up as an option in the same case-size range, but in the end, the .300 AAC Blackout won the contest. All three are about the same size, though.
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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by Old Ironsights »

Funny how alike they look isn't it... ? :twisted:
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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by otteray »

Friends Call Me Ji wrote:Because it was available in a levergun (to keep on topic) the Marlin model 62! :D

Image

Too bad they only have the 4 round mag. At least I have a bunch of those. Kinda expensive to replace, last time I checked.
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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by Trailboss »

I carried a 30 Carbine back in the late '70s deer hunting. Wasn't too impressed with it as a deer cartridge, but at the time I was using hardball ammo. Never lost a deer, but often needed more than one hit. Also tried a Winchester 351 and 401 around the same time with similar results. Next carried a 32 Winchester and never needed a second hit. Still have the 32 Win, but have added other calibers as well. I would gladly use a 30 Carbine as a HD weapon, but have other choices that are as good.
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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by piller »

An uncle of mine bought one after WWII, and he had it out at my Grandmother's farm one time. We shot it, and it was pretty accurate out to 100 yards. We filled an old Zerex plastic 1 gallon bottle with sand and put it out at around 100 yards and each took a few shots. I don't remember anyone missing. It was fun and with earplugs was not real loud. My Uncle was issued one in WWII, and he liked it. Of the 3 Uncles who served in the war, he was in supply and never shot a single round in combat. The other 2 didn't say much. Anyway, the little .30 carbine was fun from what I remember. I just don't see the need to ask why any caliber. If you like it, then have fun with it.
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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by ceb »

I have a lot of fun out of my little Inland carbine, functions well, and mine will shoot into 3-4 inches from the bench at 100yds. Easy to load for, and with a soft point bullet, its a pretty effective cartridge for whatever I'd want to shoot here in Illinois.
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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by Ben_Rumson »

I was unable to convince a co worker that the M1 carbine was a bad choice for hog hunting... This is because him being a neophyte hog hunter he took the only gun available to him hog hunting... His uncle’s M1 carbine w/ball ammo out and killed two hogs with one shot... Pass through from the one he aimed at got a smaller one standing next to the primary target... Can’t argue with success...
And I always like to post this pic for the sake of argyment
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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by Mescalero »

I have two,
one in .30 carbine
one in 5.7MMJ
Both will still be with me when I take the journey.
The .30 carbine benifits greatly from reloading/powder/bullet selection.
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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by O.S.O.K. »

The answer has been written IMHO. The fact that so many carbines were made and then went out to surplus along with inexpensive ammo (for a long time) created a market for "go with's".

Simple as that.

Why so many 30-06's?

Why so many 45ACP guns?

When you compare the 30 Carbine to these two and the AR/.223, it doesn't look so popular.

I personally have a Saginow M1Carbine and it is a fun shooter. Not to mention a very servicable defensive gun for the ladies to wield.
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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by 6pt-sika »

I have a pair of M1's that my father and grandfather got from the NRA in 1962 I believe for the ungodly sum of $12.50 apiece . My fathers was a Winchester and I believe United Postal Meter made my grandfathers anyway my grandfather thought his to be the Worlds BEST Turkey rifle with factory loaded FMJ's . He shot quite a few of them thru the back with FMJ's not destroying any meat at all !

I shoot them very littlke anymore and certainly haven't hunted with either of them since I can't remmember . I wouldn't be overly worried about getting another , but I have no intentions of letting either of the 2 I have getting away from me . But thats purely a sentimental thing .
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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by Mescalero »

With the right bullet and load, they are much more than the general public knows.
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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by Old Ironsights »

I've always though of them as sort of a rimless .357 Max in terms of performance. I'm probably way off, but that's just how it's always struck me.
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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by OldWin »

I think the biggest problem with 30 carbine is that it has always been judged against cartridges out of its class. In my opinion the M-1 carbine is a vicious (buzz word of the times) personal defense weapon. It way outperforms 9mm out of a carbine or smg and the super short barrel 223's are awful for blast/flash.
I don't feel a carbine is much less effective than an AR in 223. Now I've angered the gods!!! I find most arguments for the rifle academic. It's accurate but way beyond it's cartridges effective range. For close work there are more reliable and effective choices. It's also packed on a lot of weight over the years.
And yes, I have owned and shot AR15's.
I feel an updated carbine loaded with soft points is a good choice used for it's intended purpose.
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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by O.S.O.K. »

The 30 Carbine generates about 836 ft lbs of energy out of a M1. It is actually quite a bit less energetic than a .357 Magnum from a carbine which gives over 1100 ft. lbs.

In it's fmj guise, it will penetrate quite well, but the wound channel will be realatively small.

With soft points, that penetration will be limited and the wound channel a bit bigger of course.

The 5.56x45 generates about 1300 ft. lb.s - but is an animal of a different stripe - lighter/higher veocity and does a lot more damage than the 30 caliber in fmj forms but with less penetration. It came from target rounds that were then modified for higher velocity and best terminal performance on a man.

The 30 Carbine was designed as a replacement for the 1911 colt for secondary fighters and so was compared to that IIRC.

I am sure that picture up thread of the two bears is of a man who placed his shots into the craniums of the bears. That, or he was in a stand or other realatively safe place and put them in the heart and then waited for the bears to expire - but I'm betting on the head shots...

I think the alure of the 30 Carbine has primarily been as a fun, economical plinker and a very handy and capable varmint dispatcher. Home/ranch defense probably plays a part in this too.
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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by OldWin »

I think the most effective the 556 has ever been has been with a 55gr bullet out of a 20" barrel. All the changes since may have made it more accurate and better able to penetrate barriers but has made it slower and lessened it's wound capabilities. How it originally behaved is what the soviets were copying with the 5.45x39.
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Re: .30 carbine... Am I missing something?

Post by gak »

O.S.O.K. wrote:The 30 Carbine was designed as a replacement for the 1911 colt for secondary fighters and so was compared to that IIRC.
But it grew beyond it's "behind-the-lines" secondary fighters role, not only in mission but in recognized capabilities and hence popularity. It was a very effective street and trench sweeper and cave/building clearer, and out performed the Thompson at extended ranges. In the Pacific Theater, it was not uncommon for a Thompson gunner to call over a carbine (when a better-yet Garand was not convenient) to take out a sniper in yonder palm tree he was having trouble with. The many myths about its inability to penetrate are largely off the mark (as some remarkable tests have shown). If anything it over-penetrated (with the required ball/fmj), as many have said, in many instances when it would have been more optimal to be otherwise--before it could more effectively dump all its energy. Helmets (and old car bodies I can attest to) are nothing to the .30 Carbine. At times its strength, others its weakness. But a pipsqueak it wasn't/isn't--"within its range"--unless as one of the posters alluded to - you oddly compare to the Garand as too many folks do. Apples and oranges.

A dedicated (discrete purchase) deer gun it isn't--though as a youth I did use for, unsuccessfully (because I didn't get a good shot at)...though like many other small cal/cartridge choices of course it "can," just doesn't mean "should." Frankly I'd level the same at the .223. If it's all you've got and a "survival" situation, sure. Otherwise, do yourself and the deer a favor and get a real deer gun.

As others have said, stellar plinking-popper and, I only imagine (thankfully) great nd handy SD/HD with soft points.
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