Cat Sneeze loads for .444 Marlin...?

[AJMD429]

Just wondering if anyone has any...

I've heard of .45-70 ones, but no .444 Marlin ones.

[Chuck 100 yd]

I have shot lots of Trail Boss in mine.
250 gr. cast and about 13 gr. TB and they shot accurately and very soft. Any 10 year old girl could shoot it all day long.


50 yd. target.

[AJMD429]

Any idea the velocity...?

[AJMD429]

What if someone loaded up some of THESE to around 900 fps. . .

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/123383 ... -box-of-50

Wonder if it would be possible within the pressure-limits of the .444 Marlin...?

The closest I've found so far from 'factory data' is Hodgon's data for

300 grain Nosler bullet and 42.5 grains of H-4198 giving 2082 fps with a 24" barrel.

Reason for all this is I just got a 'night vision' scope, and was thinking what would be the best 'wild hog rifle' build I could come up with. I have a .444 Marlin just waiting to go hunting...

[6pt-sika]

Here's what I got in my 19" barreled 444 with the 1-38 Micro Groove barrel .

Ranch Dog 432-300GC with 12.5 grains TrailBoss 1072 avg for 3 shots .

MiHec 433-295GC with 12.5 grains TrailBoss 1086 avg for 3 shots .

Mountain Molds/Ranch Dog 432-325GC with 13 grains Trailboss 1025 avg for 3 shots .

I would assume a 250 grainer with 13 grains outta be in the 1200 range .

[6pt-sika]

A little more free insight !

In a 444 with a 1-38 Micro barrel ,

RD 432-240GC w/52 of H322 avg 2304 FPS

RD 432-240GC w/46 of H4198 avg 2291 FPS


In a 22" barreld Marlin 444 with a 1-20 Ballard barrel .

Mountain Molds 433-400GC w/ 43 of Varget avg 1634 FPS

BRP/RD 432-400GC w/37 of RL7 avg 1773 FPS

LBT 433-400GC w/43 of Varget avg 1651 FPS

BRP/RD 432-400GC HP w/43 of Varget avg 1628 FPS .

[AJMD429]

I'm thinkin' a subsonic 300+ grainer truckin-on downrange towards a feral hog or whatever would be pretty much worth putting a night-vision scope on the .444 Marlin...

[6pt-sika]

I'm thinkin' a subsonic 300+ grainer truckin-on downrange towards a feral hog or whatever would be pretty much worth putting a night-vision scope on the .444 Marlin...

If yours is 1-20 it shouldn't be difficult .

With the Micro Groove 1-38 barrels I was not getting the best accuracy with subsonic !

Matter of fact I pretty much decided a lever 44 MAG would be easier to do !

Also if you wanna suppress the darn thing a suppressor suitable (or what the manufacturer says is suitable ) for the 444 is a darn sight more cost wise then the ones we've been using on the 223/308 rifles . My gunsmith buddy called Yankee something or other to see about the cost on a 444 and if I'm not mistaken they said dealer cost was gonna be about a grand .

[6pt-sika]

Personally I think if you plan on shooting at the 100 yard range at night and subsonic a short barreled 308 bolt gun with a can and a night vision would be the ticket !

And thats simple to load for !

14.5 grains of Trailboss and the Sierra 220 grain RN bullet .

Dead on at 100 yards is 1 1/2" high at 25 yards , 3 1/2" high at 50 yards and 3" high at 75 yards !

So dead on at 100 is dead on all the way back as long as you're holding in the shoulder pocket .

[Sixgun]

Doc,
cast...cast...cast.....I've used Unique (loose in the case) for years in many different rifle calibers for loads from 500 to 1100. About 6 grains with a 385 gr. bullet is good for 600 in a 45-70 so I'm thinking 5 grains in a .444 and a 250 or so cast. This will sound like a .22 cb cap but will drill through well, I would not want to get hit by it.

Play with it and go one grain at a time until you get the power you want. I never did like Trail Boss with light loads in rifle cases as velocity spreads were huge, but that was my experience. Unique is the same make-up as Bullseye but with bigger flakes for a slightly slower burn rate. A buddy of mine likes Winchester 231 for the same purpose.

Like 6 point says, the heavier bullets in the 300 gr. range most likely will be inaccurate. Any good 44 mag. cast bullet will work as long as it feeds.

[JimT]

For a nice light load use factory 44-40's. Just make sure you clean the chamber really well afterwards.

[6pt-sika]

Doc,
I never did like Trail Boss with light loads in rifle cases as velocity spreads were huge, but that was my experience.

My first experience with TrailBoss was in a circa 1896 Marlin 1895 in 40-82 and I didn't like it to the point that I didn't use it again "until" I started messing with this subsonic stuff for my friends .

It does however work nicely in the 223 and 308 for the sub stuff . It was consistent and case filling in the 444 but with 1-38 I wasn't getting the best groups with the heavy lead bullets . I may go back however and try it with 250's as I have a box of Beartooth bullets in the 250 range that I have no earthly use for .

For the piggie killing from what my gunsmith buddy tells me about the piggies in Arkansas the largest he ever killed he shot with a 223 from an AR . Think he said that one was almost 300 pounds live weight .

[EdinCT]

Try nine grains of Unique fill the rest of the case with pufflon filler under any cast bullet 300grains or less.

[Rusty]

Doc, any idea what twist you have? 1:38 or 1:20? I'm thinking the 1:20 would shoot the sub sonic rounds better.

I was having a conversation along these lines with one of my local gun shop owners. He was wondering why all the night time hog hunters were going with a suppressed .30 cal when experience with muzzle loaders tells you that most game shot with a .45 cal round ball will be DRT.

I'm thinking big bore is the way to go.

[shooter]

I haven't tried Trailboss yet, but have loaded some 45-70's with Unique for a soft shooting load and have been pretty pleased. I didn't use a filler and got pretty decent groups. I'd have to look up the exact load I used, but I believe they were going around 1000 fps or so, and I was shooting at 100 yds.

[Catshooter]

AMD,

Do you cast? Sixgun has given you good advise.

A round .437 ball weighs 115 grains and is the best option for a 'cat sneeze' load. The cat sneeze part means very quiet and a round ball with a very light charge of the fastest pistol powder you have (Bullseye, Red Dot for example) out of a 24 inch or longer barrel will surprise you.


Cat

[AJMD429]

I guess I need to check my twist.

Lots of good ideas here though.

Just wondering if all that extra case-size and action-length in the .444 Marlin truly offers any advantage vs. a .44 Mag or .45 Colt for 'subsonic' feral hog loads. It makes sense you could use the extra length to get a longer, heavier bullet in the gun and out the barrel without excess pressure, but if the twist won't stabilize it anyway, maybe no need for all that extra length.

[6pt-sika]

I guess I need to check my twist.

Lots of good ideas here though.

Just wondering if all that extra case-size and action-length in the .444 Marlin truly offers any advantage vs. a .44 Mag or .45 Colt for 'subsonic' feral hog loads. It makes sense you could use the extra length to get a longer, heavier bullet in the gun and out the barrel without excess pressure, but if the twist won't stabilize it anyway, maybe no need for all that extra length.

If your rifle was made 1998 or later it will be 1-20 .

The first two digits of a 1998 rifle would be "02" , 99 would be "01" , 2000 would be "00" , 2001 would be "99" etc .

A microGroove 1-38 "should do okay with the 240-265 range cast but one never knows for sure until they've actually tried it in a particular rifle .

[Borregos]

These are not exactly "cat sneeze" but they are light loads that are accurate in my Marlin 444:

11.0gr Trail Boss, 240gr cast, 1140fps.
9.0gr Unique, 205gr cast, 1119fps.
12.0gr Trail Boss, 205gr cast, 1329fps.

Hope this helps.

[jager3]

Reduced loads that work in my 444P (1:20 twist and 18 1/2" barrel) are: 1.) 13.0/Unique/122gr (.433) round ball cast @ 1664fps 2.) 13.0/Unique/240SWC cast @ 1475fps. Both loads shoot 1 to 2" low at 50yards from my regular hunting load, while the worse group is not over 1 1/4" group in my rifle with 5 shots. Although still too much velocity for a "squirrel" load, it is a lot of fun to shoot and has very little recoil.

[SoTxBigBore]

Hi everyone, new member here migrating from a cast bullet forum. Most of my leverguns are 92/53 types. Right now I have a B92 in .44 Mag, an R92 in .45 Colt, and a B53 in .32-20. I recently bought a Handi-Rifle in .444, and if I may refer to a single shot here without being keelhauled, here goes... The rifle has not yet arrived; when it does I'll know what twist and type the rifling is. A friend has one and sez it's a 20" twist and looks to be six grooves of possibly Ballard rifling. My thoughts are, since there's no magazine, I can extend my seating depth out to the leade if need be, and unless a powder requires a crimp for good ignition, my seating depth is not restricted by cannulure location. I also like the idea of it not requiring flat/flex tip bullets. As far as cat sneeze/short range/petite shooter ammo goes, I figured to start with some of my standard .44 Spl/Mag recipes for a baseline. My '44 Plenum' carry load for my pet 4" M29 is the old Speer 225 gr JSWCHP over 10.0 of Unique, which has proven to be a great load for Central TX whitetails and SOTX coyote and javelina, and I use the Lee 215 gr SWC as a cast bullet training round for that load. My pet 'Skeeter' variant for the 4" M624 and 4-5/8" Blackhawks is a Keith with 7.0 of Unique. I've been playing with the .44 Spl/Mag in 6 different revolvers and four different rifles since the mid '70s and have a logbook full of loads, including tandem Lee 120 collar buttons, gascheck shotshells, etc so this forum should be fun.

[gamekeeper]

Welcome to the fire.... I'm sure advice will soon be forthcoming......

[AJMD429]

....next step....threads and a suppressor....

[fordwannabe]

Doc did I send you the video of my Marlin in 45/70 with the can on it? I think I did last year. 10 grains of TB