Win 71 - bad accuracy

[Old Shatterhand]

My Winchester M71 now has been thrice to the range. First with the original sights, then with original rear and fiberoptical front, and last time with a Husqvarna rear sight and fiberoptical front. It has been an discouraging experience: the rifle scatters the bullets over the entire target. A typical three-shot group is 5 - 7 inches at 50 yards. The actual load is with Barnes 250-grs and Norma URP, a powder similar to IMR 4350.

Of course I have checked the rifle. The butt stock fits well and steadily in the tang. The fore end seems to stress the barrel a bit, and supposedely something should be fixed there.

I would be very grateful for some hints how to fix it. I think that there have been something written on the fore end issue before, but i can't find it.

Regards,

Pete

[AJMD429]

If you can, I'd recommend removing both the forend AND the magazine tube and firing some shots off sandbags. Most likely the gun WILL shoot well at that point. If not, you have more troubleshooting to do, but if it shoots well without tube and forend, then put the tube on and shoot again. Sometimes the tube itself stresses the barrel, and the mounting needs 'loosened' as appropriate for that type levergun; other times it's the way the forend pushes on things.

You can do the above experiment by only removing the forend first, too, but I'd just get to the bare-bones gun first, so you know you're on the right track.

Good luck with it. I think there are some 'accurizing' threads on here or on the 'leverguns.com' section.

[Don McDowell]

Clean the barrel make sure there's no powder lead or copper fouling left in it (that'll require lots of time and elbow grease with a cleaning rod, with brushes and patches on a jag), and then scrap that stupid fiberoptic sight, then go to work on your loads. Try different powders and powder charges

[Malamute]

I agree with the cleaning. Not a "normal" cleaning of a few patches and brushing with ordinary solvent, but a rigorous copper removal cleaning, that requires special solvents and serious work. I've had several rifles that shot horribly until they were very well cleaned. Mine took working on them, and soaking overnight, and working on them again over several days.

My 71 shoots the 200 gr Hornadys into 2" or less at 100 yards off the hood of the truck. It has a Lyman reciever sight and a Sourdough blade front.

[earlmck]

Not a "normal" cleaning of a few patches and brushing with ordinary solvent, but a rigorous copper removal cleaning

Don and Malamute are right on about the cleaning, but you'll save yourself a lot of work if you get a can of the foaming bore cleaner to do the job. I happily use either "Wipe-Out Brushless Bore Cleaner" or "Gunslick Foaming Bore Cleaner". The most terrible copper-crudded up bore I ever acquired was an old 32 Special that took 6 applications of the foaming cleaner (with the attendant half-hour soak). I'd have never had the patience to get that one clean with the old patch-and-push method.

Also as bad as that is shooting I'd be worried that somebody messed up the crown on that one. If it doesn't straighten out when you remove forend and magazine, I'd be looking at the crown next.

And by the way, I'm sure loving my fiber-optic front sight I "inherited" on a recently acquired rifle. I'm going to be getting more of those! And I used to think the small ivory bead was the best for my shooting.

[Mike D.]

Why the fiberoptic sight and heavy bullets? 200 grains are best suited to the .348 and more bullet than you ever need for NA game. Go back to the original steel front sight and standard rear.

[BigSky56]

Your not the first to have accuracy problems with barnes bullets I would try the 200 gr hornadys my best accuracy load has been 53 grs of IMR 4895 3/4 " at 100 and 2450 fps but its a lousy load for cold weather will drop a foot at 100yds at 0* Re-loader 15 is a good cold weather powder and so is Re-loader 17 which you can use IMR 4350 data but you get more velocity and is the premier cold weather powder IMO, as you are in Sweden I bet it gets cold when moose hunting! Ive used the hornadys to take deer and elk and have gotten over 30" of penetration on elk and the 200 gr only dropped to 186 grs when it stopped. also there is a difference in accuracy between the Win-71 and the Brn-71. If you cant get hornadys there I can mail you a few to try. danny

[Ravenman]

Pete,
How is the accuracy with Winchester factory ammo? My Browning 71 likes the factory 200grs. Silvertip ammo. Sandbag rest at 100 meters original sights.




With Hornady 200grs. FN and N204 59.0grs. and CCI 200 primers I can dublicate the Silvertip accuracy vice. I also tried the IMR 4895 (53grs.) powder with the Hornady 200grs. bullet. A bit more accurate than the Norma 204 load but I didn't shoot the load at low temperatures.

[stew71]

Pete,
... My Browning 71 likes the factory 200grs. Silvertip ammo. Sandbag rest at 100 meters original sights.

Man, that is ONE pretty rifle.

[tman]

+1 with trying factory ammo. Best way to start your troubleshooting.

[Ray Newman]

Agree with earlmc 'bout examining the crown for any damage from a cleaning rod or pull through.

[Dave B]

Good luck with your trouble shooting. I'm looking forward to hearing what you determine to be the issue to be.

Dave B

[guido4198]

As far as the rifle: I'm also thinking bbl condition(copper or possibly lead fouling), muzzle crown. The Hornady 200's are the "standard" for many decades of reloads. LOTS of excellent loads have been identified using a variety of components. Try those, in a proven combination.
Please keep us advised.

[Sixgun]

When accuracy is that bad, its not little things like fouling, whatever. Like other have said, its your ammo........or.........your not "skeered" to shoot it, are you? Sometimes with big guns, we all have the tendency to anticipate the recoil and will flinch.-----------Sixgun

[Mike D.]

I haven't taken my 71 Standard out for a few years, but it always produced small groups. I consider anything under 2" to be stellar for a lever action rifle.
Here it is under it's little brother, my Model 64. The rifle came from the original owner and was ordered with deluxe sling swivels and Lyman No 56 receiver sight.

[Old Shatterhand]

Thanks for all inputs!

There are a lot of good advices, and I will try most of them. Thats means: dismounting of fore end and mag tube, cleaning of the bore, inspection of the crown and bore and some cartridges with Hornady 200 grs. Factory ammo in .348W is not available here - I doubt that there are more than a dozen of M71 here in Sweden.

Regarding the sight: the fiber sight has already been changed to a common silver bead. I find the fiber sight to bright and a bit fuzzy, but that fuzzy, that I should be the reason for that bad accuracy. The original rear sight has a too narrow notch and its overside casts disturbing glare. The Husqvarna sight has a clear edge with a sharp u-notch and is free from glare.

Regarding the recoil: the recoil is heavy but quite manageable and not unpleasant. I have experienced flinching with other guns, but flinching is to me connected with an unwillingness to fire the rifle. But to fire this one is great fun except the bad patterna. It's just to relax and enjoy the recoil.

After a visit to the range, I will report the results here.

Pete

Husky sight

Siktblad 003[1].jpg

[Old Shatterhand]

Yesterday I brought the M71 to the working bench where I dismantled fore end and magtube. First the bore was cleaned with solvents, but it was fairly good with only little residues and only slightly mantled. The crown was undamaged.

However, the fore end seemed to have pressed to the barrel on the right side. With a curved card scraper some wood in the sides of the barrel channel was removed exept one inch on each side just in front of the reciever. The dove tail piece, where the fore end iron is attached to the barrel was badly battered and had to be trued up. I had planned to shoot the rifle without mag tube and fore end, but decided to see how it shot with the fore end worked up. After re attaching mag and fore end, I did a test with a sheet of paper, and it ran smooth down between barrel and fore end.

At the range I shot from the bench at 50 yards with rest and this time the pattern was about 2½ inch. It not quite satisfying, but much better than earlier.

And perhaps it is time to get a reciever sight. The shooter's vision isn't anymore sharp enough iron sights. Time goes.

And thanks for advicing me!

Pete

[AJMD429]

The big bulldozer-blade sight blade on that Husky sight reminded me why I like the more 'open' Marbles Bullseye ones. If you don't want the hassle of installing receiver sight, or don't need the ease of adjustments (i.e. just sight in with your favorite load and leave it), the Marble's Bullseye is worth looking at. It's sort of a cross between a full-buckhorn and a ghost-ring. Goes in the barrel dovetail just like the original sight. For me they have proven both fast and accurate, even though they are generally barrel-mounted. My only beef is that they are like 'factory open sights' and "drift-adjustable" for windage, which makes them harder to initially sight-in. Once sighted in, though, I pretty much only adjust the elevation, for different loads/distances. Anyway, my 'old eyes' seem to do well with them.

You might find my "tons of peeps" thread (link > Tons of Peeps) of interest - it has pictures that show about what the view actually looks like to my eyes....