45-70 Rhino bullets

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86er
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45-70 Rhino bullets

Post by 86er »

My friend Chris in RSA sent me some bullets I had been looking for, and CRS was nice enough to carry them home and deliver them. They are 360 grain Rhino bullets made for 45-70 specifically. I had thought they'd be a bit light for any real big stuff and I was uncertain of what velocity they needed to work right. The owner of Rhino Bullets, Kobus told us of a lot of experimentation on culling and hunting lots of different game. A PH Etienne Van Der Blaune used a 22" Marlin rifle and shot 24 blue wildebeest. He reported 100% 1-shot kills and said nothing went more than 25 yards after being hit. He recovered 17 out of 24 bullets, but they all looked virtually the same. We then looked at recovered bullets from kudu, giraffe, gemsbok and waterbuk. Statistically, 70% of the bullets fired into game over 350 pounds were recovered, but that does not take into account the range. Only 22% fired into game under 350 pounds were recovered. There were also reports of 4 cape buffalo that were shot with these. The diameter and penetration were pretty impressive, but I would still use them for the first shot and follow up with solids. The load used was with South African powder that we don't have here, but the book load stated the velocity was 2125 fps. Etienne did not know the actual velocity he was getting because he never chronographed them. I have a 22" barrel, so I plugged in a load that the computer said would yield 2125 fps 5 ft from the muzzle. I ended up 10 ft from the muzzle to chrony but that shouldnt make any difference. The first load got 2065 average of 5 shots with a high of 2098 fps. One grain more only gave me 9 fps gain average and the SD went up. Another grain gave me 2074 average with 2118 fps as the high. However, the lever needed more force to open as it just started to stick a little. The first load would have to do but would it make the bullet perform as it was intended? Rhino's have a solid shank and bonded core that opens into petals. Every caliber range is different but .458's open into 4 petals. The petals are intended to make and X and not roll back on the shaft much. The first 3 shot group at 100 yards with XS sights off a sandbag gave 1.36" group, two shots touching one over the other and one a tad right and high. My friend has a herd of cows and occassionally he'll let me shoot a "mad cow", one that will not be accepted for human consumption. I called him to tell him to save me one and he said "Come on over, I have one with a open infection with puss on it's nose and an infected outer ear". The dog food plant will take it if it is cut up a certain way and still fresh so that's where this one was headed anyway. I checked the range at 54 yards and fired at a spot just above the elbow. The cow's eyes rolled back and it ran in a short U shape then fell over. It did not try to inhale or exhale until it fell down and then all its air came out. We picked it up with the tractor that had a 700 pound scale on it. She weighed 568 pounds. I found the bullet below the skin in front of the front shoulder. It was still stuck in meat but just touching the skin. Another few inches would have stretched the skin, maybe exited. The total penetration was 25" and the wound channel started about 8" into the animal. The path was wide as I could put a soda can in the hole inside. I washed off the bullet, picked it and weighed it. Still weighs 360 grains! The diameter is .986 across the widest part. Since the Kodiak bullets are now unavailable I am going to start using these instead. One advantage is that they do not have to go as fast to perform as well or better than the 350 gr or 405 gr Kodiaks. They come 20 bullets per box and cost 365 Rand, about $31 for 20 in RSA.

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RIHMFIRE
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Re: 45-70 Rhino bullets

Post by RIHMFIRE »

Wow...excellent performance
great report Joe
LETS GO SHOOT'N BOYS
piller
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Re: 45-70 Rhino bullets

Post by piller »

That moly coating makes them look black and shiny in the box. The shop that Chris' friend Stoffel took me to that I picked up the ones I brought back to you had most calibers, but not all, that we use commonly here in the U.S. I might have to get some and try them the next time I get to RSA, and I plan to go again some day.
D. Brian Casady
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Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
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madman4570
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Re: 45-70 Rhino bullets

Post by madman4570 »

More great information!
Thanks Joe!
keruli
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Re: 45-70 Rhino bullets

Post by keruli »

Does anyone have more pics of this bullet recovered from game? I would love to see them.

I have marlin 1895 GS and I hunt moose and bear in Finland. Last season I carried these bullets with me for the first time and shot only one moose. Bullets went through, so that is why i am intrested. Our hunting club has just few licenses for moose and bear yearly, so it takes years before I get reliable information based on my own experiences.

And even if you dont have any pics, but have used this bullet, please share your experiences.

PS. Sorry if my English sucks.
keruli
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Re: 45-70 Rhino bullets

Post by keruli »

Does Joe or anyone else gained more experiences about this bullet. If you have more pictures of this bullet recovered from game I would like to see those. Also pictures about damage in flesh would be interesting to see.

I am Finnish so please try to bear with my poor English.
86er
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Re: 45-70 Rhino bullets

Post by 86er »

I've not used them personally in Africa yet but I can talk about their use here in the US. In the photo you will see a 405 Woodleigh on the far left that was traveling 2000 fps. The range was 40 yards. It hit a small watusi on the top of the shoulder, broke in and verred toward the rear, clipping the spine and lodging in the rumen. It now weighs 326 gr. The next two bullets are Rhinos. They started as 365 grains and 2200 fps. The center one hit a water buffalo bull slightly quartering to between the neck and shoulder. The range was 60 yards. The bull dropped at the shot. The bullet was recovered in the opposite upper leg. It weighs 351.2 gr. The second Rhino bulllet has the same ballistics as the first and hit a large watusi female square between the eyes on a frontal shot at 35 yards. She dropped at the shot, dead. The bullet entered the front of the head, broke the upper neck, cut through one lung was was lodged against the skin behind the rib cage. It weighs 349.7 gr. These are the only Rhino's I've recovered. They have been used to take hogs, cow elk, axis deer buck and aoudad ram. All those were one shot kills with exit holes. The holes have been sort of diamond shaped or square and about 2" X 2". I would not rate them better than the 405 gr Kodiak Bullet @ 2006 fps but the same as far as lethality. However, I have shot over 35 animals with the Kodiak and only about 8 animals with the Rhinos. The Rhinos do perform measurably better than the 350 gr Kodiak @ 2300 fps but dead is dead and I wouldnt pass up using that bullet for anything other than the 405 Kodiak or 365 Rhino.
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Nath
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Re: 45-70 Rhino bullets

Post by Nath »

Excellent report Joe. Thanks.

A good read.

Nath.
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keruli
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Re: 45-70 Rhino bullets

Post by keruli »

Thanks Joe. Couple more questions...

Is that bullet really 45-70 version or is it 458 version? I wonder because I thinked that 45-70 version would "expand more" at that speed.

http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/reloa ... ino-2.html

In that site there are some pictures of my wet media test with 45-70 version. I know that wet media is harder than real game but still...

Another question. If shot goes through both shoulders, how much blood clot is there between membranes?
86er
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Re: 45-70 Rhino bullets

Post by 86er »

Those are 45-70 Rhinos purchased in 2012. The chest cavity shot and particularly shoulder shots have produced a jelly-like handful of bloody material inside the animal. Very severe damage.
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keruli
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Re: 45-70 Rhino bullets

Post by keruli »

Okey then. Thanks for the information.

Do you have pictures of that 405 gr Kodiak bullets. I have never even heard about them.
86er
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Re: 45-70 Rhino bullets

Post by 86er »

Use the "search" function and punch in Leverguns 2009 Safari Part 9: Bullets. There are pics and description of many 405 gr Kodiaks.
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keruli
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Re: 45-70 Rhino bullets

Post by keruli »

Thanks.

I think I will stick with Rhinos for now.
stepmac
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Re: 45-70 Rhino bullets

Post by stepmac »

keruli wrote:Does Joe or anyone else gained more experiences about this bullet. If you have more pictures of this bullet recovered from game I would like to see those. Also pictures about damage in flesh would be interesting to see.

I am Finnish so please try to bear with my poor English.
I wish that I could speak your language as well as you speak mine.
stepmac
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Re: 45-70 Rhino bullets

Post by stepmac »

I shoot a Ruger No 1 in 45/70 with Remington half jacketed bullets. The rifle, being light, kicks hard and shoots hard too. Are folks using 45/70s in Africa now? I've been on Safari in Africa, but was armed with a 35mm camera. Lots of one shot kills.
keruli
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Re: 45-70 Rhino bullets

Post by keruli »

stepmac wrote:
keruli wrote:Does Joe or anyone else gained more experiences about this bullet. If you have more pictures of this bullet recovered from game I would like to see those. Also pictures about damage in flesh would be interesting to see.

I am Finnish so please try to bear with my poor English.
I wish that I could speak your language as well as you speak mine.
Thanks for the compliment.

In Finland we start studying English at age 10 or so. But I haven't write English for many years so it is little struggling to try to remember spelling (have to check online dictionaries) and word order. I do understand writing pretty well it is just slow to write myself.
stepmac
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Re: 45-70 Rhino bullets

Post by stepmac »

keruli wrote:
stepmac wrote:
keruli wrote:Does Joe or anyone else gained more experiences about this bullet. If you have more pictures of this bullet recovered from game I would like to see those. Also pictures about damage in flesh would be interesting to see.

I am Finnish so please try to bear with my poor English.
I wish that I could speak your language as well as you speak mine.
Thanks for the compliment.

In Finland we start studying English at age 10 or so. But I haven't write English for many years so it is little struggling to try to remember spelling (have to check online dictionaries) and word order. I do understand writing pretty well it is just slow to write myself.
Keruli: Your English is easy for a native English speaker to undertand. You have some minor errors however: "I haven't write" should be "I have not written English", "It is a little struggling....", should be: "I am struggling a little to remember spelling and word order....". Final sentence should be, "I do undertand writing pretty well, but find that I write slowly."

I think that you are doing extremely well for someone who has not been writing English for a long time. Here, most Americans are semi-forced to learn Spanish. I would love to be able to speak French, which in I my opinion, is the World's most beautiful language. Can a 70 year old learn to speak French?
piller
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Re: 45-70 Rhino bullets

Post by piller »

stepmac wrote:
keruli wrote:
stepmac wrote:
keruli wrote:Does Joe or anyone else gained more experiences about this bullet. If you have more pictures of this bullet recovered from game I would like to see those. Also pictures about damage in flesh would be interesting to see.

I am Finnish so please try to bear with my poor English.
I wish that I could speak your language as well as you speak mine.
Thanks for the compliment.

In Finland we start studying English at age 10 or so. But I haven't write English for many years so it is little struggling to try to remember spelling (have to check online dictionaries) and word order. I do understand writing pretty well it is just slow to write myself.
Keruli: Your English is easy for a native English speaker to undertand. You have some minor errors however: "I haven't write" should be "I have not written English", "It is a little struggling....", should be: "I am struggling a little to remember spelling and word order....". Final sentence should be, "I do undertand writing pretty well, but find that I write slowly."

I think that you are doing extremely well for someone who has not been writing English for a long time. Here, most Americans are semi-forced to learn Spanish. I would love to be able to speak French, which in I my opinion, is the World's most beautiful language. Can a 70 year old learn to speak French?
If you wish to try, there is not any rule that I know of that prohibits you. The only barrier would be one which you yourself create. Go ahead and learn French and have fun while learning.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
piller
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Re: 45-70 Rhino bullets

Post by piller »

Yes, some of us have been fortunate enough to use .45-70 rifles in Africa. .45-70 is a cartridge that can be loaded hot enough in a good modern rifle to get the job done on game animals, in my personal experience, as large as a big Wildebeest even when it offers a very difficult shot. (Difficult shots are personally subjective, since what for me might be difficult may be easy for someone with more experience)
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
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