Loaded detachable mags, are they legal in vehicle ???

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madman4570
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Loaded detachable mags, are they legal in vehicle ???

Post by madman4570 »

Guys,
I have been hearing all this "stuff " about many states having laws that are (not clear)(iffy)to do with items in a vehicle.
Pertaining to a long gun(rifle for example) with laws such as (an unloaded firearm but having availability to ammo)is considered(Loaded Firearm)---------also an unloaded firearm with a detached loaded mag somewhere else in the vehicle====Loaded firearm.

Then there is what is (Loaded)??? Mag in gun,loaded or not loaded?? /Mag out of gun but loaded/Mag loaded but in trunk/????

Looks like if you have say a Kel-Tec Sub2000 in a case(folded/can't fire/no mag in well but a full mag also in case detached====loaded firearm???
Looks like if you have a Loaded mag in gun/chamber empty=========loaded gun
Looks like if you have a empty gun in case/full mag in your pocket===========loaded gun

Term "firearm" appears not to be a legal length rifle/shotgun in Penal Law?????????? What is it called???????
Looks like police also don't show exemption of loaded rifle/shotgun in car---so are they illegal too???????????

Do they just do this stuff to confuse everyone so no one knows for sure.

What does your State say about transporting a long gun with ammo/ammo mags/etc????????????
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Re: Loaded detachable mags, are they legal in vehicle ???

Post by Malamute »

My state doesn't care in the least if any or all my guns are loaded in my vehicle. Handguns, rifles, shotguns, it doesn't matter. Case, no case, no problem.

The usual state of my vehicle,

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Re: Loaded detachable mags, are they legal in vehicle ???

Post by FWiedner »

madman4570 wrote:Do they just do this stuff to confuse everyone so no one knows for sure.
Yes.

:|
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Re: Loaded detachable mags, are they legal in vehicle ???

Post by Pete44ru »

A mag by itself is not a firearm, it's an ammo box until it's inserted into a firearm - so it makes no difference in my state whether it loaded or not.

.
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Re: Loaded detachable mags, are they legal in vehicle ???

Post by Hobie »

Loaded mag in firearm in VA is loaded BUT not necessarily a problem.
§ 15.2-1209.1. This section empowers the governing body of any county to adopt ordinances making it unlawful for any person to carry or have in his possession, for the purpose of hunting, while on any part of a public highway within such county a loaded firearm when such person is not authorized to hunt on the private property on both sides of the highway along which he is standing or walking; and to provide a penalty for violation of such ordinance not to exceed a fine of $100. The provisions of this section shall not apply to persons carrying loaded firearms in moving vehicles or for purposes other than hunting, or to persons acting at the time in defense of persons or property.

§ 15.2-915.2. This section empowers the governing body of any county or city to, by ordinance, make it unlawful for any person to transport, possess or carry a loaded shotgun or loaded rifle in any vehicle on any public street, road, or highway within such locality. Any violation of such ordinance shall be punishable by a fine of not more than $100. Game wardens, sheriffs and all other law-enforcement officers shall enforce theprovisions of this section. No ordinance adopted pursuant to this section shall be enforceable unless the governing body adopting such ordinance so notifies the Director of the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries by registered mail prior to May 1 of the year in which such ordinance is to take effect. The provisions of this section shall not apply to duly authorized law-enforcement officers or military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, nor to any person who reasonably believes that a loaded rifleor shotgun is necessary for his personal safety in the course of his employment or business.

§18.2-308 - Prohibits the carrying of any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material; any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor, slingshot, spring stick, metal knucks, or blackjack; any flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which may be known as a nun chahka, nun chuck, nunchaku, shuriken, or fighting chain; any disc, of whatever configuration, having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart; or any weapon of like kind by any person hidden from common observance about his person. Any of the enumerated weapons shall be seized and forfeited to the Commonwealth. A weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature.
Gotta love the lawyers...

Of course there's another consideration we touched on when discussing woods-bumming guns...
It shall be unlawful to have in possession a bow, crossbow, or any firearm which is not unloaded and cased or dismantled on all National Forest lands statewide, or on Department-owned lands and on lands managed by the Department under cooperative agreement in counties west of the Blue Ridge Mountains except during the period when it is lawful to take bear, deer, grouse, pheasant, quail, rabbit, raccoon, squirrel, turkey or waterfowl on these lands; and on Department-owned lands and on lands managed by the Department under cooperative agreement in counties east of the Blue Ridge Mountains except during the period when it is lawful to take bear, deer, grouse, pheasant, quail, rabbit, raccoon, squirrel, turkey, waterfowl or migratory game birds on these lands. (See exception for valid concealed handgun permit holders).
This is the last word and more precise than my previous explanation (although we in VA understand it due to long exposure to the circumstances).
Sincerely,

Hobie

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madman4570
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Re: Loaded detachable mags, are they legal in vehicle ???

Post by madman4570 »

NYS Penal law, definition # 15 as applies to article 265 and 400:

15. "Loaded firearm" means any firearm loaded with ammunition or any
firearm which is possessed by one who, at the same time, possesses a
quantity of ammunition which may be used to discharge such firearm.



WTF???????


or------

2. No firearm except a pistol or revolver shall be carried or
possessed in or on a motor vehicle unless it is unloaded in both the
chamber and the magazine,

New York Environmental Conservation - Title 9 - § 11-0931

is that (any magazine whether attached to gun or not??????????????
Last edited by madman4570 on Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Loaded detachable mags, are they legal in vehicle ???

Post by Griff »

Varies hugely by State, and sometime even by region within a State, i.e. city, etc. And a lot is not codified into law, per se... it'll be enforced under "case law", where like the Federally mandated, but not codified into law, "Miranda Warning"... not a law, but a circumstance that's been ruled on by a Judge, and either upheld thru appeal or even never appealed.

To ascertain the truth of whether it's legal to carry loaded magazines, with or without a firearm in attendence, it's best to consult a criminal lawyer specializing in your State. Any other reply might accurately reflect the "law" in that state or other political entity, but might not reflect YOURS.

While I couldn't even answer about CA law at the present time... your magazines are probably fodder for the grist mill... but I can tell you that I (over speveral years time) arrested at least 50 persons for possession of a concealed weapon, (baseball bat)... based on their circumstance and their statements... never had said arrest thrown out of court, or...?
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Re: Loaded detachable mags, are they legal in vehicle ???

Post by AJMD429 »

madman4570 wrote:Do they just do this stuff to confuse everyone so no one knows for sure.
Yep. That way if you have a gun that is too 'cool' for a mere civilian-peasant to own, and you encounter a not-so-nice cop who has a case of firearm-envy, he/she has an excuse to confiscate it, never to be seen again... :evil:
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Re: Loaded detachable mags, are they legal in vehicle ???

Post by alnitak »

We are good to go here in VA, but you may be in trouble in MD. IIRC, the mags have to be empty and stored separately from the pistol. It varies greatly by state.
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Re: Loaded detachable mags, are they legal in vehicle ???

Post by Grizz »

FWiedner wrote:
madman4570 wrote:Do they just do this stuff to confuse everyone so no one knows for sure.
Yes.

:|
roger roger

if Malamute got stopped in WA-state he'd go to jail without passing go.

IT'S NUTS!

I think the best counter-strategy would be alinsky the voting and marriage and driver's license laws to be the same as the gun laws for each district regulatory authority. don't let up until we get our full constitutional civil rights restored on every square inch of America... but I'm not political that way...
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Re: Loaded detachable mags, are they legal in vehicle ???

Post by Old Ironsights »

Add a couple of variables:

In many states, a loaded firearm is OK if it is a sidearm as. It falls under the local CCW rules... UNLESS said firearm is also a "legal" firearm of a hunting season for which you have a Tag, in which case it falls under the "no loaded firearms" rules under Fishy Game Law...

So your .45 Colt could be legal in town but "illegal" wherever a Fishy Game Cop is scoping for "rule violators" in out-of-town deer areas... :roll:

If that isn't enough proof that the .gov has run amok and needs to be replaced I don't know what is.
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Re: Loaded detachable mags, are they legal in vehicle ???

Post by ving-thorr »

Malamute wrote:My state doesn't care in the least if any or all my guns are loaded in my vehicle. Handguns, rifles, shotguns, it doesn't matter. Case, no case, no problem.

The usual state of my vehicle,

Image


+1, same here in Arizona, anything goes. I love the west.
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Re: Loaded detachable mags, are they legal in vehicle ???

Post by CalvinMD »

In Md your lucky they even let you carry your ammo in the same car as the gun.....major Anal-orifices in our state :x
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Re: Loaded detachable mags, are they legal in vehicle ???

Post by Malamute »

ving-thorr wrote:
Malamute wrote:My state doesn't care in the least if any or all my guns are loaded in my vehicle. Handguns, rifles, shotguns, it doesn't matter. Case, no case, no problem.

The usual state of my vehicle,

Image


+1, same here in Arizona, anything goes. I love the west.

That's where I was before coming up this way. I love the west too! I can drive from Az to here and north of me without any concern, tho utah used to have a funny quirk about having either an empty chamber in a self loader or the chamber under the hammer and next round up empty on revolvers.
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Re: Loaded detachable mags, are they legal in vehicle ???

Post by 1894 »

madman4570 wrote:NYS Penal law, definition # 15 as applies to article 265 and 400:

15. "Loaded firearm" means any firearm loaded with ammunition or any
firearm which is possessed by one who, at the same time, possesses a
quantity of ammunition which may be used to discharge such firearm.



WTF???????


or------

2. No firearm except a pistol or revolver shall be carried or
possessed in or on a motor vehicle unless it is unloaded in both the
chamber and the magazine,

New York Environmental Conservation - Title 9 - § 11-0931

is that (any magazine whether attached to gun or not??????????????
Yep , just enough legal ambiguity that even the cops and game officers cannot say with 100% certainty either way. I've talked to a few and know several other folks that have also asked several each of DEC officers and cops including State troopers on this issue. No same answer outta any of them. CCW weapon is covered , but anything else is up in the air enough to give pause to anyone thinking that just dropping the magazine outta their rifle and putting it in the console in plain sight. That is the little experience I've had with this issue here in this state. I'll leave further interpretation as to what you can / can't and should / shouldn't do , up to you to decide.
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Re: Loaded detachable mags, are they legal in vehicle ???

Post by adirondakjack »

OUTSIDE of the five borroughs of hades, NYS only says "unloaded" for long guns (even for pistol permit holders BTW. You can have your handgun loaded if permit conditions allow, but still not have a loaded rifle).

If gun and loaded mag are BOTH within easy reach of driver, that can be construed as "loaded" for CONSERVATION LAW purposes (road hunters, etc) For decades, I had a rifle in the back seat, loaded mag on the front seat, and never had a cop give me grief. In a pickup with no back seat, zip the gun case up (regardless of where mag is or it's condition), or if gun is in the cab un-cased, put the mag in the glove box or zip it up in any enclosed bag you have, and you satisfy that issue be not being "readily available" to load instantly.....

Remember, basic forth amendment rights say IF NOT IN PLAIN SIGHT (inside an enclosed bag or box) they have to have PROBABLE cause to believe a crime has been committed in order to search that bag. A woman's OPEN purse is fair game, zipped up, nope.....
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Re: Loaded detachable mags, are they legal in vehicle ???

Post by madman4570 »

Guys,
Think I have it figured out! (though after I hit enter post I see Jacks post above)Good stuff Jack!

I firmly believe that the second statement(2) of above means (the chamber/the magazine of that gun)
Sounds like best way to go is once that magazine is inserted into that gun(it is that magazine in question,whether it being detached or a fixed mag (like on a SKS)etc.

The way to go is have the rifle(mag inserted in well,chamber open)Everything empty including that mag.
That mag when in gun is that guns current magazine period.

Now, For the other stupid statement above when a rifle is in a car/suv/pickup etc. and there is ANY available ammunition in that same vehicle,mag/no mag/box ammo/loose ammo etc. that must be meant as when spot lighting/tasks revolved around DEC/Hunting activities.


Otherwise, anyone that ever has a legal long gun with any ammo is in violation :lol: :roll:
No way in he## that will stand up in any court, and if one had to spend time and resources to fight that,best would be to go national with NRA backing and get things changed.

So empty gun/chamber/its own single empty mag inserted.

JMHO(am no Lawyer so whatever you think)
Think Jack has it right!
Last edited by madman4570 on Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Loaded detachable mags, are they legal in vehicle ???

Post by L_Kilkenny »

Good question and one I've pondered many times. Iowa law states that guns included magazines must be unloaded. They don't address internal vs. detachable. But then I've been checked numerous times and haven't even had an LEO blink an eye about detachables loaded and laying on the seat or dashboard. Figure I was just biding my time till I ran into the wrong sort of LEO and the wrong sort of judge though.

Now with permit my guns usually reside in a similar state to Malamutes cept barrel down at the floorboard.

LK
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Re: Loaded detachable mags, are they legal in vehicle ???

Post by madman4570 »

Well gee whiz ----how long does it take to thumb out 8rds out of your little extra mag beside you/between your crotch etc. as you are pulling over on side of road.
Yep,hang on Henry(cant be hurried, I am pulling over)slowly/carefully trying to get ready to put it in Park as creeping up to a stop in a safe place that I deem??????? :lol: :wink: :oops:
Where is that flasher button???

Ah, Just Kidding guys! :wink:
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Re: Loaded detachable mags, are they legal in vehicle ???

Post by L_Kilkenny »

madman4570 wrote:Well gee whiz ----how long does it take to thumb out 8rds out of your little extra mag beside you as you are pulling over on side of road.
Yep,hang on Henry(cant be hurried, I am pulling over)slowly/carefully trying to put it in Park??????? :lol: :wink: :oops:

Just Kidding! :wink:
Ya know, back in my younger days I go pulled over while doing my late evening check on my trap/snare line. Someone thought I might of been poaching deer. Anyway I had two 30 round 10/22 mags laying on the seat next to me. Sheriff asked why I had those and I simply explained to him that I previously had a coon pull outta trap as I aproached and found that when shooting at a running coon in dark 10 rounds just wasn't enough sometimes. Worked. Truth be told they were just a simple and effective way of carrying ammo.

I would of had to go halfway across the county to get them dang things unloaded :lol:

LK
Last edited by L_Kilkenny on Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Loaded detachable mags, are they legal in vehicle ???

Post by madman4570 »

:lol: :D

Isn't this sh## priceless???????????
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Re: Loaded detachable mags, are they legal in vehicle ???

Post by adirondakjack »

The typical empty bolt or lever gun and closed box of ammo on the truck seat is never gonna be an issue unless yer riding in a rural area and appear to be hunting (then put the ammo away, out of sight) Detachable mags muddy the issue, as a magazine if loaded and the rifle also present, HAS TO BE out of reach of the driver or otherwise secured in a container, box, etc that is closed, zipped, locked or latched, or simply unloaded. If yer 10-22 or kel tec is in the passenger foot well, leaning against thee seat like normal in a P/U, yer LOADED mag better be "gone" somewhere outside of easy reach of the driver. Under the seat doesn't count. I am not real sure, but I think there s a loaded 10-22 mag in the "doghouse" glove box of my van right now (filtered down under the other junk by now), even though the rifle is in the house. I don't NEED the mag in the house for that gun, but when the rifle goes with, it lives in the passenger foot well.....
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Re: Loaded detachable mags, are they legal in vehicle ???

Post by madman4570 »

adirondakjack wrote:The typical empty bolt or lever gun and closed box of ammo on the truck seat is never gonna be an issue unless yer riding in a rural area and appear to be hunting (then put the ammo away, out of sight) Detachable mags muddy the issue, as a magazine if loaded and the rifle also present, HAS TO BE out of reach of the driver or otherwise secured in a container, box, etc that is closed, zipped, locked or latched, or simply unloaded. If yer 10-22 or kel tec is in the passenger foot well, leaning against thee seat like normal in a P/U, yer LOADED mag better be "gone" somewhere outside of easy reach of the driver. Under the seat doesn't count. I am not real sure, but I think there s a loaded 10-22 mag in the "doghouse" glove box of my van right now (filtered down under the other junk by now), even though the rifle is in the house. I don't NEED the mag in the house for that gun, but when the rifle goes with, it lives in the passenger foot well.....
Jack,
How bout a laptop case that zips fully closed(empty Kel-Tec)in main case and a loaded mag in the outer separate zipped closed accessory pouch portion which fully separates each within that two parts of the case ????????
It would be as viewed just a fully zipped up case!(both sections)

an example of such----------
http://www.tigerdirect.com/include/AddC ... gcounter=5
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Re: Loaded detachable mags, are they legal in vehicle ???

Post by adirondakjack »

madman4570 wrote:
adirondakjack wrote:The typical empty bolt or lever gun and closed box of ammo on the truck seat is never gonna be an issue unless yer riding in a rural area and appear to be hunting (then put the ammo away, out of sight) Detachable mags muddy the issue, as a magazine if loaded and the rifle also present, HAS TO BE out of reach of the driver or otherwise secured in a container, box, etc that is closed, zipped, locked or latched, or simply unloaded. If yer 10-22 or kel tec is in the passenger foot well, leaning against thee seat like normal in a P/U, yer LOADED mag better be "gone" somewhere outside of easy reach of the driver. Under the seat doesn't count. I am not real sure, but I think there s a loaded 10-22 mag in the "doghouse" glove box of my van right now (filtered down under the other junk by now), even though the rifle is in the house. I don't NEED the mag in the house for that gun, but when the rifle goes with, it lives in the passenger foot well.....
Jack,
How bout a laptop case that zips fully closed(empty Kel-Tec)in main case and a loaded mag in the outer separate zipped closed accessory pouch portion which fully separates each within that two parts of the case ????????
It would be as viewed just a fully zipped up case!(both sections)

an example of such----------
http://www.tigerdirect.com/include/AddC ... gcounter=5
On the seat next to you, might be a problem. In the passenger foot well of your truck or behind the seat, what gun?

As a CAS shooter I have often driven to weekend shoots in a P/U (standard cab) with three or more long guns, several handguns, and hundreds of rounds of ammo in the cab. Since it is legal for me to do so, ONE revolver is always loaded, by my side (tee shirt or similar on top of it), and all the rest of the ammo is in the passenger foot well, in containers ranging from tupperware to small wooden "barrels", and yes, there might be a mag or three for a semi auto rifle around, boxed, bagged, cased, and the two times I have run through roadblocks, the initial "bug-eyed" reaction cooled when I smiled and said "on the way to a shooting match" and nothing more said. Just don't be an idiot and reach anywhere in their direction in the cop's presence (even if you need to get your wallet, tell him it's in the glove box, etc and ask is it ok if I get it). NOBODY likes surprises when dealing with a stranger with guns.
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