Gonna do a test

handirifle · Post by **handirifle** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:27 pm

I'm getting a small sample (5) of the Barnes 235gr TSX bullets

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.e ... t=11082005

to test in my 375 Big Bore. These are spire point bullets, but Iam going to cut the nose off just like I did the Hornady's. I'll try them as hollow points and I want to try a couple filled in the nose cavity as well.

I'm thinking silicone, but would like something that flows better. Ideas?

Also, I do not have ballistic gel so looking for suggestions for an expansion medium. I read of using wet papers, but not sure how to handlt the transporting. Has anyone done this before? I have a truck, but unsure of how or when you soak, etc.

Ideas?

This is mainly due to the very likely possibility of CA going lead free and looking for alternatives, for all my rifles, not currently supplied with lead free bullets.

The fill is simply to help promote expansion. I plan on loading them, hopefully, from about 1500 or 1600-2000 fps for the test, to see how well they perform.

I am looking at some liquid used to make worm lures. It's poured in and heated to 350 to cure. Still a thought. Gonna wait to see how big the cavity is.

Thanks, and I will post the results with details and pics, when I can do the test.

86er · Post by **86er** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:47 pm

I do not reload, but I shoot with a guy who did what you're looking into. He plucked the plastic tip out of bullets and tried two different filler: accraglas and epoxy. He felt the hard filler would assist expansion and hold and seal better. They worked fine on paper but as far as I know he has yet to shoot an animal with either. I know he is now experimenting with putting a small metal ball in the bullet cup and then filling with epoxy. His idea is that the weight-forward bullet will somehow improve its performance. The little metal balls only weigh a few grains so I don;t know how that will pan out. Just some ideas for your consideration.

Leverluver · Post by **Leverluver** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:44 pm

Think on this a second;
1) the Xs are already hollow points
2) the hollowpoint does not get any larger as it goes down so cutting it would not increase the size of the of the hollow point.
3) when you cut it off, you will then have a much thicker jacket mouth at impact, which will impede opening rather than enhance it.
4) the Xs as well as a lot of other bullets rely on hydraulics to open the bullet. The fluids of the impacted material hydraulically open the nose. Those fluids are compressed in the hollowpoint, building great pressure that overcomes the the strength of the jacket mouth. Once the mouth of the jacket peels, it takes the jacket material that is further down, along with it and the mushroom proceeds. BUT you have to get that first peel.

A foreign material that is in the hollow point opening can impede the opening. This has happened not infrequently as hide or the wood of a tree limb or other matter gets jammed in the hole. The hollowpoint is designed to operate properly with the hole being open so that fluids will "pop" the mushroom open.

Now if something were stuck in the nose that acted as a wedge (sorry those much loved plastic tips aren't wedges) such as the steel wedge in an axe handle, then yes it will aid opening.

I have retrieved many plastic tips from recovered bullets and there is zero evidence that the plastic had any wedging influence what-so-ever on opening the bullet. In fact, if you test a plastic tipped bullet for expansion and penetration and then take a pair of pliers and pull the plastic tip and then test for the same thing again, then you can decide for yourself whether the plastic helped opening or hindered it. Plastic tipped bullets open because they are hollow points, not because of the plastic tip. Of course the PR machine doesn't want you to know that.

Please do proceed though. It will be a interesting test.

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:56 pm

Handi

I am kinda with Leverluver on this one. But if Thomas Edison had listen to nay sayers we would still do our reading by gas lamp

.

So by all means my good man proceed.

And if you go threw with it please post lots of pics.

handirifle · Post by **handirifle** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:38 pm

Well my plan is to test in all manners if possible. I'm only getting 5 bullets so the test will obviously be limited in scope.

What leverluver says makes sense, and the thicker sides was a concern mentioned by Barnes, but I have nothing to lose and a great 375 BB bullet to gain if it works.

At any rate, I have no choice, but to cut the tip off, UNLESS I used it as a two shot, but then there is the COAL concern. I'll have to see that when they get here. Most likely will cut them to make sure it could be used like a regular levergun load.

My thoughts of using a SOFT filler, or semi liquid, was to assist in the expansion. In my way of thinking, the fluids in the body will not need to fill the opening as it will already be full.

If leverluver is correct, good probability, then the open hollow point should open better than the filled one. Hopefully the test will show us.

With only five bullets to test, I'll test two, one filled, one not, at mid level 38-55 velocities (1300-1400fps) and one at beginning level 375 loads and two, one filled one not, at top level 375 velocites. Somewhere around 2100-2200fps.

At this point I'm planning on using wet phone books as a medium. Anyone with this type of experience have a clue how many I might need per shot?

I'll have to build a frame to hold them when wet, and figure a way to store them as I soak them down.

Post by **Old Savage** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:42 pm

If you need another tester ------

handirifle · Post by **handirifle** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:51 pm

Savage

I may just get in touch with you to help see this through.

To make sure I do it right.

I keep your addy (office, in my pocket, and will be in touch) What are your office days/hours?

handirifle · Post by **handirifle** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:05 am

Just thought of something. I think, as a base, I'll do one shot of factory 200gr load, and one or two of my 250gr Hornady flat nose for comparison.

I know these expand in dirt, but what doesn't ?

Ought to be an interesting test overall.

Savage,

in that light, I'll have some the the 2150fps 250gr loads you can shoot, at least from my rifle since that's the one it was worked up in. just to be safe.

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:11 am

OK, mine is chambered for the 38-55 as they all are in Marlin I believe - is yours a BB.

Some Jacketed 45-70s I have shot didn't expand in dirt - at least very little.

NonPCnraRN · Post by **NonPCnraRN** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:43 am

Just cut the front of the Triple Shock X bullet until the tip is the same size as the tip on a Winchester Silvertip for the 30-30. The tips don't have to be REAL flat, just not pointed like a firing pin. You won't need to fill the hollowpoint as the leading edge of the petals that fold back will have a wider frontal area pushing against the target medium and should fold back just fine. As it was pointed out they will be thicker, but will still fold back. It is the thick part of the petal that forms the mushroom, the very tips are parallel to the bullet shank. Just look as some of the pics on the Barnes website. It is the thick portion of the four petals at the begining of the solid portion of the bullet that forms the mushroom shape. If you are really worried that you won't get the expansion you need use a slightly larger drill bit to make a wider hole. Again, don't fill up the cavity. Just leave it as a hollow point. Look at the size of the holes in the .458 Triple X bullet. They expand ok. If you still feel the need to plug the hollowpoint, steal your kid's Gummy Bears and shove some of it in the hole.

handirifle · Post by **handirifle** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:07 am

NonPCnraRN wrote: steal your kid's Gummy Bears and shove some of it in the hole.

What and waste perfectly good gummy bears?

Old Savage, yep mine is a BB, but like I said, I'll get in touch and you're welcome to plug away.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:58 am

I think I'd try glue from a hot melt glue gun.

Rusty <><

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:58 pm

If I was from PRK, I think I'd sneak a call into Randy Barnes, and see if he was developing a flat-nosed .375" solid copper anything for a market as big as that.

handirifle · Post by **handirifle** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 2:45 am

Rusty
Not a bad idea. Will look into that.

Pete,

Been emailing them back and forth, so far nothin in that line as yet.