problems with loading cartridges in Marlin 1894c

Welcome to the Leverguns.Com Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here ... politely.

Moderators: AmBraCol, Hobie

Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.

Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Post Reply
cvarcher
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 128
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:08 am
Location: NY

problems with loading cartridges in Marlin 1894c

Post by cvarcher »

Ok, I have stubby finger tips and after 3 or 4 rounds going into the gate opening the 5th round wants to eject back out unless I use the tip of my pinky to insert it deeper in. Seems the spring or gates forward prongs are pushing it back out. I did cut a few coils off the mag tube spring and I did thin down the loading gate spring but its still doing this.IS there something I missed? The first 3 or 4 rounds go in with the one before it holding the gate open by its rim so it makes loading the next round easy until that 5th one.That 5th one I have to insert my pinky tip as deep in as I can get it and sometimes it still wants to jump out.
User avatar
Hobie
Moderator
Posts: 13902
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:54 pm
Location: Staunton, VA, USA
Contact:

Re: problems with loading cartridges in Marlin 1894c

Post by Hobie »

Technique. Use the next cartridge to fully seat the cartridge immediately previous. On the last use your thumb to push on the upper third of the case head. For me, I'd get another, original mag spring and replace the one you've modified. I'd also get a metal follower. I NEVER use my "pinky" finger.
Sincerely,

Hobie

"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
cvarcher
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 128
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:08 am
Location: NY

Re: problems with loading cartridges in Marlin 1894c

Post by cvarcher »

Hi Hoby, I do use the next cartridge to push the one before it all the way it as they usually hang up around where the rim is at the edge opf the opening gate.But by the 5th one I go to insert it and if I let go the gate pushes it right out! Even with the thumb tip I cant seem to get it in deep enough so that the gate will clear the rim of the cartridge and close.HEnce the little pinky tip manages to fit in deeper .By then the spring is pushing it back and it tends to follow my pinky on the way out so the cartridge sometimes come right back out!! Its very aggravating. My B92 and other Marlins dont do this. Why replace the spring. Ive shortened it in the hope it will be less tension on the cartidges. It still feeds right down to the last one.Also you mentioned replacing the red plastic tip follower for a metal one--any good reason why?
User avatar
Hobie
Moderator
Posts: 13902
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:54 pm
Location: Staunton, VA, USA
Contact:

Re: problems with loading cartridges in Marlin 1894c

Post by Hobie »

Replace the magazine spring so that there are no problems with cartridge feed.

In every circumstance where I had difficulty loading a rifle, a specific rifle, I've found through experimentation and practice that my technique was lacking.

This is my take. No need to listen to me. Heaven knows my wife doesn't so you'll be in good company. :wink:
Sincerely,

Hobie

"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
adirondakjack
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1925
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:09 pm
Location: Upstate NY
Contact:

Re: problems with loading cartridges in Marlin 1894c

Post by adirondakjack »

This seems more an issue with the .357 than other cartridges. I watched a lady CAS shooter load her .357 rifle using a neat technique. It was obvious to me she cared about her fingernails....

With the rifle on a table or other flat surface, use the right hand to push the first round in almost but not quite all the way, leave just the rim sticking out, while also holding the gun against the table with the heel of the right hand. As the rounds begin to push back, hold em ALMOST all the way in with the right thumb, while the left hand reaches for, then pushes in the next round. As the next round is almost in place, transfer the right thumb into "holding", while freeing the left to reach for another round.... Repeat until the last round, which you kinda "scoot past the end of the gate with the left thumb. The lady shoots a lot, and was doing the above almost without looking. No problemo....
Certified gun nut
User avatar
Cimarron Red
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 480
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:18 pm
Location: Colorado

Re: problems with loading cartridges in Marlin 1894c

Post by Cimarron Red »

I shorten mag springs of my rifles by letting the spring hang out of the front end of the mag tube while loading one cartridge only. I vary the length of the spring until one cartridge will not slip reliably onto the carrier. Then I increase the amount of the spring in the tube by about two inches and then cut it off at this point. If the spring will reliably feed the last cartridge out of the magazine, it will do so with the others as they increase tension on the spring. There is no advantage in having an overly-strong magazine spring.

The reason for replacing the stock plastic follower is that over time with exposure to cleaning solvents it is likely to swell. This swelling will then lead to feeding problems.
User avatar
J Miller
Member Emeritus
Posts: 14880
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:46 pm
Location: Not in IL no more ... :)

Re: problems with loading cartridges in Marlin 1894c

Post by J Miller »

OK, bear with me for a few moments.

A couple years ago the subject of loading Marlins came up. I do not remember who, where, when, what forum, it was on. Anyway on the inside of the front edge of the loading port is a machined bevel to facilitate loading the cartridge. Someone said that at some point Marlin quit machining this bevel. That leaves a squared edge at the front of the loading port instead of the bevel. It is at this bevel where the rim of the previous round rests as you push the next one in. The consensus then was that this was a mistake, but that a few minutes with a round file, or some other round grinding tool would fix it.
My 1894 Cowboy is beveled there, so I just filed it for future info.

So, check your loading port and see if the bevel is there. It will be just inside the forward end of the port. If not, that might be part of the difficulty in loading the rounds.

Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts ;) .***
cvarcher
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 128
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:08 am
Location: NY

Re: problems with loading cartridges in Marlin 1894c

Post by cvarcher »

Hi Joe,how are you? Yes I think its something that simple that would cause all this problem.I actaully rounded the edge of the loading gate door at that front edge on both sides but it didnt help.I guess you need an actual bevel.So is this bevel edge of the loading gate door on the inside of the gun or the outside ? I would think it would need to be on the outside so when its pushed in for a cartridge the bevel would be up against the round helping it to guide on to the mag tube.
cvarcher
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 128
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:08 am
Location: NY

Re: problems with loading cartridges in Marlin 1894c

Post by cvarcher »

Thanks Cimmaron Red for that advice and the plastic follower. What was Marlin thinking !!!!!! Does Marlin still make the metal followers for the 1894 and 1894c?
adirondakjack
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1925
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:09 pm
Location: Upstate NY
Contact:

Re: problems with loading cartridges in Marlin 1894c

Post by adirondakjack »

Metal followers are around, but not from Marlin directly.

I personally like a Stainless Steel Follower and mag tube spring, and sell oodles of em to other CAS shooters at CAS events or through the website cowboy45special.com. Springs can be fitted easily regardless of Mag tube length. Shove the spring into the tube, see how much sticks out the front, and reduce that so only 3" or so sticks out (I simply wrap my hand around the spring, and cut it off on the other side of my hand). Make sure to bend the end of the cut spring in a tad, and put the cut end toward the cap, the pretty factory end inside the follower.
Certified gun nut
User avatar
J Miller
Member Emeritus
Posts: 14880
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:46 pm
Location: Not in IL no more ... :)

Re: problems with loading cartridges in Marlin 1894c

Post by J Miller »

cvarcher wrote:Hi Joe,how are you? Yes I think its something that simple that would cause all this problem.I actaully rounded the edge of the loading gate door at that front edge on both sides but it didnt help.I guess you need an actual bevel.So is this bevel edge of the loading gate door on the inside of the gun or the outside ? I would think it would need to be on the outside so when its pushed in for a cartridge the bevel would be up against the round helping it to guide on to the mag tube.
Not doing too bad I guess.
The bevel is on the inside of the receiver at the front of the loading port. Not on the loading gate.
Here is a pic of my 1894's receiver:
Loading port bevel.JPG
The bevel I'm talking about is on the inside of the receiver where I put the red mark. Not sure if that's your problem, but it's an idea to check.

A-Jack is right. Plastic followers are stuff .... 'er junk. I replaced the one in my Marlin 1894 with a stainless one from Brownells. I think this was before A-Jack was selling them otherwise I'd bought it from him.
I've checked the magazine springs on most of my lever guns and they seem to average about 6" protruding from the tube when the follower is in and the spring is just sitting there. Never cut one shorter, but did have one replaced that came shorter from the factory. It was too short and wouldn't reliably push the cartridges out.

Joe
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts ;) .***
User avatar
El Chivo
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3611
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:12 pm
Location: Red River Gorge Area

Re: problems with loading cartridges in Marlin 1894c

Post by El Chivo »

if the .357 is stickier than the others, could it be because it's an inch and a half shorter?

I often use a wooden dowel stick to put the last cartridge in (at silhouette matches) or lacking this I use the corner of my thumb.
"I'll tell you what living is. You get up when you feel like it. You fry yourself some eggs. You see what kind of a day it is."
cvarcher
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 128
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:08 am
Location: NY

Re: problems with loading cartridges in Marlin 1894c

Post by cvarcher »

Oh so the bevel your talking about is on the inside of the reciever -not the loading gate door.Geez. Dont know if I could file into that ! But I would like to order up a stainless follower for my 1894C and 1894 .Where is Adirondack jacks e address?
User avatar
J Miller
Member Emeritus
Posts: 14880
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:46 pm
Location: Not in IL no more ... :)

Re: problems with loading cartridges in Marlin 1894c

Post by J Miller »

cvarcher wrote:Oh so the bevel your talking about is on the inside of the reciever -not the loading gate door.Geez. Dont know if I could file into that ! But I would like to order up a stainless follower for my 1894C and 1894 .Where is Adirondack jacks e address?

A-jacks web site is in his profile.


Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts ;) .***
User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 31933
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Re: problems with loading cartridges in Marlin 1894c

Post by AJMD429 »

One thing I do is I don't let the loading gate snap shut between cartridges, until the last one. I think the 'notch' in the loading gate in the Marlins allows that. If the 'notch' in the loading gate is shaped right (?wide enough?) it seems to allow the rim of the cartridge not to push past it and all the way out. Rarely on the last or next-to-last round it won't stay in, but not often.

Hope this helps. Sorry I don't have pictures to clarify what I'm trying to describe.

The OTHER fun thing is if you have winter 'shooting' gloves on that have the thin index finger fabric, the fabric will get caught in the loading gate when it shuts. Not too good for the glove...
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
User avatar
Hobie
Moderator
Posts: 13902
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:54 pm
Location: Staunton, VA, USA
Contact:

Re: problems with loading cartridges in Marlin 1894c

Post by Hobie »

I see no advantage to having a "marginal" magazine spring and prefer the original strength.
Sincerely,

Hobie

"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
cvarcher
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 128
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:08 am
Location: NY

Re: problems with loading cartridges in Marlin 1894c

Post by cvarcher »

Hobie , the reason for a shorter length spring is less tension build up when your feeding cartridges in. I got to tell ya-- my fingertips are sore trying to push in the rounds with some popping back out the gate.Its downright frustrating. I have the 92 that Nate Kiow worked on and you should feel how those rounds glide in so easy with not one trying to come back out. So as long as the spring will still push the final round onto the loading carrier its long enough. I just checked my 1894c and it does have that inside bevel but its not as pronounced as my 1894 44mag-maybe because of the larger round of the 44.
Leverdude
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1518
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:25 pm
Location: Norwalk CT

Re: problems with loading cartridges in Marlin 1894c

Post by Leverdude »

Cimarron Red wrote:
The reason for replacing the stock plastic follower is that over time with exposure to cleaning solvents it is likely to swell. This swelling will then lead to feeding problems.

Thats a first. I'v heard of them breaking but never swelling from solvents. I prefer a metal one too but dont buy the swelling thing. I think they all have plastic followers now, it'd be a chronic issue.
User avatar
J Miller
Member Emeritus
Posts: 14880
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:46 pm
Location: Not in IL no more ... :)

Re: problems with loading cartridges in Marlin 1894c

Post by J Miller »

My 1894 Cowboy had a plastic follower in it and I took it out and replaced it with a stainless one. To my knowledge it never saw any solvents and probably didn't have more than a half box of ammo used in it when I got it.

But ~I hate plastic parts where steel is supposed to be~ so it went away.

Perhaps I should measure it and then toss it in a pan of Hoppe's and see what happens.

Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts ;) .***
User avatar
Hobie
Moderator
Posts: 13902
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:54 pm
Location: Staunton, VA, USA
Contact:

Re: problems with loading cartridges in Marlin 1894c

Post by Hobie »

cvarcher wrote:Hobie , the reason for a shorter length spring is less tension build up when your feeding cartridges in. I got to tell ya-- my fingertips are sore trying to push in the rounds with some popping back out the gate.Its downright frustrating. I have the 92 that Nate Kiow worked on and you should feel how those rounds glide in so easy with not one trying to come back out. So as long as the spring will still push the final round onto the loading carrier its long enough. I just checked my 1894c and it does have that inside bevel but its not as pronounced as my 1894 44mag-maybe because of the larger round of the 44.
I understand the explanation and/or the reasoning. To put it another way, more bluntly, I don't agree.
Sincerely,

Hobie

"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 31933
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Re: problems with loading cartridges in Marlin 1894c

Post by AJMD429 »

J Miller wrote:Perhaps I should measure it and then toss it in a pan of Hoppe's and see what happens.
...would that be 'old' Hoppe's, or 'new' Hoppe's... :wink:
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
User avatar
J Miller
Member Emeritus
Posts: 14880
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:46 pm
Location: Not in IL no more ... :)

Re: problems with loading cartridges in Marlin 1894c

Post by J Miller »

AJMD429 wrote:
J Miller wrote:Perhaps I should measure it and then toss it in a pan of Hoppe's and see what happens.
...would that be 'old' Hoppe's, or 'new' Hoppe's... :wink:
New Hoppe's.

Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts ;) .***
cvarcher
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 128
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:08 am
Location: NY

Re: problems with loading cartridges in Marlin 1894c

Post by cvarcher »

Joe, that is an excellent idea ! And if there is a reaction,A phone call to Marlin would be in order.Hey maybe you will get hired on as testing consultant!!! Meanwhile Ive shortened the spring with an excess of 2 1/2" sticking out of the tube and Ive slighlty gound the bevel and polished it on the inside of the port.I also thinned more the gate door spring. The loading is easier still but that 5th round still wont go clean all the way in without a protruding finger tip push.Could the veed shape gate door be alittle too long at the prongs?
User avatar
J Miller
Member Emeritus
Posts: 14880
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:46 pm
Location: Not in IL no more ... :)

Re: problems with loading cartridges in Marlin 1894c

Post by J Miller »

cvarcher wrote:Joe, that is an excellent idea ! And if there is a reaction,A phone call to Marlin would be in order.Hey maybe you will get hired on as testing consultant!!! Meanwhile Ive shortened the spring with an excess of 2 1/2" sticking out of the tube and Ive slighlty gound the bevel and polished it on the inside of the port.I also thinned more the gate door spring. The loading is easier still but that 5th round still wont go clean all the way in without a protruding finger tip push.Could the veed shape gate door be alittle too long at the prongs?
Considering that Marlin is Marlin in name only I'll bet they'd put my comments in the round file.

Now, before you do anything else with that Marlin let me tell you some thing. You've "fixed" it to the point it's about broke.
I'm agreeing with Hobie, quit cutting the magazine spring and quit messing with the loading gate. From the experience I've had with these things your going at it the wrong way.

If you keep thinning up the gate spring, or start grinding on the front of it you are going to ruin it.
It's tension and the long fingers at the front are there for a purpose. They are there to hold the case in place as you load it. (Keep reading.)

Magazine tension serves two purposes that I'm aware of. First it pushes the rounds out of the mag into the action. Second it keeps tension on the rounds so they don't slam back and forth under inertia during recoil when you fire the gun.
Get it too light and it won't feed properly and being slammed back and forth can cause bullet set back. Not a good thing.

The technique to load a gate fed lever action, Winchester or Marlin, is to insert the first cartridge until the rim is just inside the front edge of the loading port. When you get it just right, the gate will hold it there by tension. Then you use the next round to push the first one in until it's held by the gate. You keep doing this until it's full. The last round will need the pinky finger or something to shove it in past the front of the loading gate.

Yes, it will get stiffer when you have it half to full. That is the way of it. It's working ... or was working the way it is supposed to.

Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts ;) .***
Post Reply