Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

Welcome to the Leverguns.Com Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here ... politely.

Moderators: Hobie, AmBraCol

Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.

Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
86er
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 4703
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:58 pm
Location: Republic of Texas

Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

#1 Post by 86er » Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:56 pm

I got around to testing some 35 Rem bullets for accuracy, penetration and expansion on game. TedH graciously sent a box of 190 grain cast bulelts. He'll have to report in with the composition of the bullet, all I know is they were cast with a gas check and lube. I averaged the 20 bullets and got 191.9 grains. I compared them to Hornady LeverEvolution and Remington Core-Lokt, each of 200 grain weight. I tried to get the 190 cast and the 200 RCL to the same velocity for fairness in comparisons. It took a lot of load experimentation but I ended up using the 190 gr cast with 35 grains of H322 for 2065 fps average and the Remington Core Lokt were over 36.3 grains of H4895 for 2039 fps average. I could not get the velocity closer without sacrificing a ton of accuracy. The 190's require a deep seating depth to cycle in the Marlin, with the bullet seated to the last crimp groove and a heavy Lee factory crimp applied. The Hornady's were factory loaded 200 gr and I did not chrono them for velocity. Rifle is a Marlin 20" bbl w/ a 4X scope with German post reticle. First the groups at 100 yards, shot prone with no sling or rest: The Remington Core Lokt put 3 shots into an inch. The Hornady did just under 3 inches so I shot a 4th shot to be sure. The cast bullet threw one round of the first 3 shot group so I shot another into the group. It put 3 shots in 1 1/2 with the flier making the group 3". Next the penetration. Similar accuracy out of my 1909 year Rem Model 8, but I was more interested that it functioned with all of them and it did, and it has open sights. I had two rear halfs from cows that weighed close to 300 pounds per half. We put three layers of shrink wrap to keep the splatter down and also give some resistance like the hide would. The two halves were hung side x side. I figured the 35 Rem is most commonly used from a stand or jump shooting so 50 yards would be common. I also considered feeders and open shots could have it going 100 yards pretty often. Closer and further are possible but less frequent, so I compromised and did the penetration testing at 75 yds. I thought the bullets might go through one half and into the other but they did not. I shot marked 2 1/2 inches on the plastic and shot the bullets that far apart and in a straight string. Since I had the other half fresh I repeated on that side and averaged. All the bullets were oval shaped so I measured the expansion across the widest part. The cast bullet retained the gas check on it.

Bullet Penetration Expansion Weight
Horn 7" .782 187.5
Cast 9.75 .722 154.9
RemCL 16 .714 198.5

You can also see some of the wound canals in the photos. The Hornady bullet started to make a canal at around 3 inches and it was nickel sized. The cast bullet started at 1.5" and it was about quarter sized for 5 inches and then shrunk to a little over bullet diameter. The Rem Cl started at 3.5" and continued to a size between nickel and quarter but kept the same size canal to its resting place.

Any of these would be good for whitetail deer. I would not hesitate to use the cast bullet on animals up to around 275 pounds and out to 100 yds. The Remington Core Lokt would be good for deer, bear and I think up to around 600 pound up to 100 yds.

ACCURACY
Image
AMMO SELECTION
Image
200 Grain Core Lokt
Image
Image
190 Grain Cast Bullet
Image
Image
200 Grain Hornady Lever Evolution
Image
Image
Wound Channels
Rem Cl
Image
Cast
Image
Hornady
Image
The 3 shots
Image
Last edited by 86er on Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Professional Hunter
http://www.TARSPORTING.com
"Worldwide Hunting Adventures"

Professional Hunters Assoc of South Africa
SCI - Life Member
NRA - Life Member
NAHC - Trophy Life Member
DWWC - Member

User avatar
Old Savage
Posting leader...
Posts: 13134
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:43 pm
Location: Southern California

Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

#2 Post by Old Savage » Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:02 pm

Thanks Joe for doing the testing - that Remington load is a winner again.
In the High Desert of Southern Calif. ..."on the cutting edge of going back in time"...

User avatar
Tycer
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 6711
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:17 am
Location: Asheville, NC

Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

#3 Post by Tycer » Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:10 pm

There's a reason the CoreLoks have been around for over 60 years.
Kind regards,
Tycer
----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.saf.org - https://schoolsucksproject.com/ - http://www.guntalk.com

User avatar
TedH
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8005
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:19 pm
Location: Missouri

Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

#4 Post by TedH » Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:32 pm

Those bullets I sent Joe are cast from the Ranch Dog TLC359-190-RF mold. I cast them from an alloy that is supposed to be a duplicate of the Lyman #2 alloy. Glad to see Joe got some decent accuracy out of them. I'm still trying to get them to shoot in my Marlin 356 Win. I think some H322 is next on my list.
NRA Life Member

C. Cash
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 5384
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:02 pm

Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

#5 Post by C. Cash » Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:57 pm

Great info Joe....thanks for the report. Those Ranch Dog bullets look deadly with that big meplat. I am thinking I will start shooting my Beartooth 210's again in my 356, for a Hog/Deer load.
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

JohndeFresno
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 4559
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:52 pm

Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

#6 Post by JohndeFresno » Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:21 pm

Great work - again - Joe. Thank you. I'm archiving this little gem.

User avatar
Ben_Rumson
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2569
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:51 pm

Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

#7 Post by Ben_Rumson » Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:41 pm

Awsome report...Mebbe I ought to punch out my 99 300 Sav to 35 Rem....
"IT IS MY OPINION, AND I AM CORRECT SO DON'T ARGUE, THE 99 SAVAGE IS THE FINEST RIFLE EVER MADE IN AMERICA."
WIL TERRY

User avatar
CEMENTHEAD
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 915
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:09 pm
Location: RHODE ISLAND

Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

#8 Post by CEMENTHEAD » Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:49 pm

Joe,
have you tried the Buffalo Bore 220gr JFN ? Just curious............

Thanks, Tom
War sees no color, sex, or ethnic background - wars only see blood shed by our heroes for our freedoms.

I Am An American! Fighting for our Country and our way of life.

Fourth Generation Veteran and Proud !!

User avatar
Old Savage
Posting leader...
Posts: 13134
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:43 pm
Location: Southern California

Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

#9 Post by Old Savage » Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:56 pm

Well, maybe punch it out to 35/300 Savage.
In the High Desert of Southern Calif. ..."on the cutting edge of going back in time"...

User avatar
Paladin
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1651
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:55 am
Location: Not Working (much)

Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

#10 Post by Paladin » Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:10 am

Thanks for the info, great data, looks like it is time to test the .35 EBR.
It is not the critic who counts

User avatar
86er
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 4703
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:58 pm
Location: Republic of Texas

Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

#11 Post by 86er » Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:00 am

I had tested 220 grain bullets previously. My notes indicate that the penetration was slightly more but the expansion was the same or less under similar conditions. I note 19" of penetration at 50 yds. If I were intentionally targeting big bears or an extremely heavy animal I would consider the 220 gr. For anything under a ballpark of 500 pounds the 200 gr Core Lokt would be as good.
Professional Hunter
http://www.TARSPORTING.com
"Worldwide Hunting Adventures"

Professional Hunters Assoc of South Africa
SCI - Life Member
NRA - Life Member
NAHC - Trophy Life Member
DWWC - Member

User avatar
CEMENTHEAD
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 915
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:09 pm
Location: RHODE ISLAND

Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

#12 Post by CEMENTHEAD » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:19 am

Good to know. Just as I was thinking. :D Thanks Joe.

Thanks, Tom
War sees no color, sex, or ethnic background - wars only see blood shed by our heroes for our freedoms.

I Am An American! Fighting for our Country and our way of life.

Fourth Generation Veteran and Proud !!

stretch
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1929
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:15 pm

Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

#13 Post by stretch » Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:32 pm

Thanks, Joe!

The Remington Core-Lokt just keeps going, and going, and going.......

A superb design - as you've proved again!

-Stretch

Nath
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 7852
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:41 pm
Location: England

Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

#14 Post by Nath » Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:29 am

You put some work in on this Joe, many thanks :)

Nath.
Psalm ch8.

Because I wish I could!

Bogie35
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1416
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:00 pm
Location: South Carolina

Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

#15 Post by Bogie35 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:47 am

Has there ever been a bullet as well suited to its cartridge as the 200 grain Core-Lokt is to the 35 Remington? It has been superlative in every test I've seen. Joe's experiment further validates this one: http://www.suitorsgarage.com/gunstuff/3 ... part1.html

From impact velocities of about 1300 to 2200 fps, the bullet produces a near perfect combination of expansion and penetration, and with plenty of weight retention. Amazing!

Thanks Joe!

bogie
Sadly, "Political Correctness" is the most powerful religion in America, and it has ruined our society.

Goat
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 276
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:57 pm
Location: Central Louisiana

Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

#16 Post by Goat » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:19 pm

Thanks for giving me even more confidence in the 35 Rem/200gr Core-lokt combination. I have only limited experience with it but have found it to work in an astounding way on whitetail deer when coupled with the Marlin 336. My handload gives an honest 2200fps and has always shot very well. I hope to have it back in the woods next season but the remainder of this one will have me toting my M-375. Good information and as always, well written. Thanks for the effort you put into these tests and reports!
Goat
"To know HIM and make HIM known"

jlchucker
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 542
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:44 pm

Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

#17 Post by jlchucker » Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:47 am

The 200 gr Coreloct bullet is the first one that I tried when I began loading that caliber. It performed so well on paper with that first box of ammo that I never bothered experimenting with my loads. Later, when I got into casting for the 35, I got similar results from the RCBS 200 gr cast bullet. 86er's tests validate the excellence of the 35 Remington and 200 gr bullets. Has anyone noticed though, that over the past couple of years Remington has been jacking up the price of their 200 gr Coreloct component bullets? They must be reading all of the positive info being spread by guys like 86er and others (including me). 86er, your findings prove that anyone with a 35 need look no further than the 200 gr Coreloct. Great job with this article, 86er--and Happy New Year to everyone!

User avatar
KirkD
Desktop Artiste
Posts: 4367
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:52 am
Location: Central Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

#18 Post by KirkD » Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:45 am

Very interesting and informative. Thanks for posting this.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
http://p2c.com/students/blogs/kirk-durston

stretch
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1929
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:15 pm

Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

#19 Post by stretch » Sat Jan 01, 2011 7:43 pm

Very interesting indeed. Thanks for the work and the post.

I've always been a fan of the Remington Core-Lokt bulltet.
It was correctly designed many, many moons ago, and your
testing validates it yet again.

-Stretch

C. Cash
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 5384
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:02 pm

Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

#20 Post by C. Cash » Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:56 pm

Great stuff....many thanks Joe.
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

User avatar
86er
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 4703
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:58 pm
Location: Republic of Texas

Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

#21 Post by 86er » Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:21 am

In the data booklet that John C. Clark and I put out called 1000 Tags Filled there's a whole pile of game taken with the 35 Remington. Except for a skewed incident it ranks as one of the top cartridges if I limit the estimated animal weight to 350 pounds and the range to 150 yards. Without limiting any categories it hangs in the top 7 cartridges of those in the booklet (dozens and dozens of cartridges are represented). The raw data combined with my own recollection and clients re-caps of the hunts really opened my eyes to the 35 Rem. The results were too consistent and positive to ignore!
Professional Hunter
http://www.TARSPORTING.com
"Worldwide Hunting Adventures"

Professional Hunters Assoc of South Africa
SCI - Life Member
NRA - Life Member
NAHC - Trophy Life Member
DWWC - Member

User avatar
Old Savage
Posting leader...
Posts: 13134
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:43 pm
Location: Southern California

Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

#22 Post by Old Savage » Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:30 am

Ben, you would have to punch it out to 35 Savage. There is the cartridge I think the guys who want a 35 should be doing.
In the High Desert of Southern Calif. ..."on the cutting edge of going back in time"...

User avatar
86er
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 4703
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:58 pm
Location: Republic of Texas

Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

#23 Post by 86er » Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:05 am

I think the neck on the 300 Savage case is too short to take it to .358. Maybe if you blew out the shoulder too. It appears that there would not be enough gain with a 300 Sav case to warrant a 35 on it. Remington made an experimental 38 Remington cartridge that never was produced. Now that may be something! It is essentially the 35 Rem expanded to 38 caliber. If only a good rifle bullet was available in .380. Nothing comes to mind.
Professional Hunter
http://www.TARSPORTING.com
"Worldwide Hunting Adventures"

Professional Hunters Assoc of South Africa
SCI - Life Member
NRA - Life Member
NAHC - Trophy Life Member
DWWC - Member

C. Cash
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 5384
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:02 pm

Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

#24 Post by C. Cash » Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:30 am

The 356 Win. is still a great cartridge as well....more roomy and can use the same bullet/velocity concepts. I cannot imagine needing much more unless one went to a 35 Whelen or some such thing, in a gun that will take the longer cartridges. Recoil is going to take all the fun out of it at that point, though, in a short compact carbine, and for what realworld gain? And then you come back to the fact there is nothing wrong with the 35 Rem., so why fix what's not broke? I just prefer the 94 Win. in the Big Bore config. so the 356 Win. is the answer.
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

User avatar
earlmck
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2906
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:10 am
Location: pert-neer middle of Oregon

Re: Comprehensive Bullet Test 35 Rem. CL/LE/Cast

#25 Post by earlmck » Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:24 pm

Much thanks for the great bullet test, 86er. I printed it out and put it with my 35 Rem reload info.

And Ben, I'm with you. If I had a 300 Savage that wasn't getting much use, opening up to 35 would be a real option. As far as case neck goes, the 300 Savage is short but that has never been a problem in 30 cal and it would gain a scosh of length going to 35. I just scooped up a 200 gr. Hornady R.N. 35 (same profile as the core-lokt) and held it against the 300 savage cartridge. It would seat at the canelure with room to spare. Maybe a little too much room... a pretty good jump to the riflings, even if you chamber the new cartridge with virtually no throat, like both my 35 Rem 336s are chambered. But the fine 200gr. R.N. bullet would seat to just below the base of the neck in the Savage case. I'd call it "pert neer perfect".

But you would have some other bullet options, in those made for 358 Win. or 35 Whelen. And with a normal throat, the 35 cast bullets could be seated to a more normal position (I have a great 180gr. LBT pistol bullet that I use in my 35 Remingtons, but I have to seat it way back so just the nose sticks out... And 86er had to seat his cast bullet awful deep for the same reason. Yep, 35/300 Savage would be a fine cartridge if you have the spare rifle.

Here's how they look:

Image

300 Savage at normal O.A.L.___ 200gr. 35 R.N.___ 180gr. cast___ 35 Rem. loaded with the cast
The greatest patriot...
is he who heals the most gullies.
Patrick Henry

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests