Nother hand loading gripe - the trimmer!

[J Miller]

[RANT]
I've just sized around 150 30-30 cases. Now I put my Forster case trimmer in the vise, it's screwed to a short piece of 2x4, and put some oil on the cutter shaft.
Then I put in a case and trim it. The trimmer was set for 30-30s cos that's what I used it on the last time. But instead of cutting the case to 2.028", it cut it to 2.020". ARRRGGGHHHH
Trying to get that thing back to 2.028" is a pain in the @$$! Especially when I never touched it since the last time and it was set to 2.028 then.
Now adjusting a Forster should be simple, but it's not. You got to loosen a tiny dinky little set screw, then turn the adjuster screw, then tighten the set screw.
Sounds simple, but not. The adjuster screw will move the cutter over a thousandths of an inch with just the tiniest fraction of a turn. Then when you think it's right, tightening the darn set screw moves the adjust screw and it's off again.

I think a big part of the problem is the four fingered collett that you put the case into then tighten. If you don't get it exact each time you have a variation. Case rims vary, so it's really hard to do. This is a feature I want to get rid of.

I'm upset. I want a case trimmer that is user friendly and EASY to adjust. I want the KISS principle to apply.
K eep
I t
S imple
S tupid

Anybody know of such a case trimmer?

If this house wasn't a frame house I'd beat my head on the wall I'm so frustrated at this stupid trimmer. I've botched a half dozen case just trying to set that thing.[/RANT]

J e

PS: I hate and despise this stinking censor. The words it substitutes for what I put in don't come anywhere near expressing how really infuriated I am.

[oldgerboy]

I've gone almost exclusivly to the Lee trimmers. Yep, you must get one for each cartridge but things stay consistant and are easy to use.

[Sixgun]

Joe,
The Forster is a fine piece of machinery. I have been using the same one for close to 40 years.

Yep, The collets NEED to kept clean. I run the edges with a needle so the bases of the empty shells fit deep and concentric.

If you want to make easy settings on your trimmer, select a case that is EXACTLY the length you want. -------loosen the set screw--------insert the case in the collet----------push the cutter up to the mouth and while holding it, tighten the set screw.

Its common to mess up a couple of cases everytime. While the Forster is great, you are not going to get exact measurements everytime. I'm happy with a thousandths over or under. Like a powder measure, its "how" you manipulate the mechanics of the tool with even pressure and speed in order to get repeatable measurements ----------------Sixgun

[Ben_Rumson]

KISS...Be in no hurry when you're handloading. Trim Dies are about as easy as it comes...You set its length just like any other die, then lock'er down...Cool too is when the case is ran into the die it gets sized.. File off the excess.. Chamfer if you're so inclined & you're done..

[J Miller]

I've gone almost exclusivly to the Lee trimmers. Yep, you must get one for each cartridge but things stay consistant and are easy to use.

I bought one of those many years ago and never could use it. Cases should be trimmed after they are sized and the Lee trimmer depth shaft is too large.

Sixgun,
I can't afford to loose several cases each time I try to set that thing up.
Gotta be something simpler.

KISS...Be in no hurry when you're handloading. Trim Dies are about as easy as it comes...You set its length just like any other die, then lock'er down...Cool too is when the case is ran into the die it gets sized.. File off the excess.. Chamfer if you're so inclined & you're done..

Ben, the only trim die I have is for the 303 Brit and it only neck sizes. Then it doesn't expand. Not gonna work for me.

Joe

[Ben_Rumson]

Joe.. Time to invent a paddle...

[pokey]

I've gone almost exclusivly to the Lee trimmers. Yep, you must get one for each cartridge but things stay consistant and are easy to use.

I bought one of those many years ago and never could use it. Cases should be trimmed after they are sized and the Lee trimmer depth shaft is too large.

Joe

if you have access to a belt sander, it is easy to make the trim arbor fit your cases.
fine grit belt, light touch, spin while polishing, check fit often, takes about 10 minutes.

[Griff]

Wassa problem? I trim my .30-30s to 2.020. I've yet to trim a case a second time! What I hate is that knurled knob; 50 cases & I have a blister that covers the ball of my thumb. I've seen meat tenderizers with less aggressive points!

[Ray Newman]

Speaking of case trimmers, 'bout 2 years ago, I bit the bullet and bought the Sinclair/Wilson with a micrometer head and power adapter. Finally have the case shell holders for the rifle calibers that reload for, next are the pistol calibers.

I queried the local bench rest shooters for information about case trimmers. Nine out of ten recommended the Sinclair/Wilson. Over the years, I tried Lee, RCBS, Lyman, and a Redding with a micrometer head. The packed away Reading is the only survivor.

The Sinclair/Wilson is not exactly inexpensive. Some don't like it because a case shell holder is required, but I can trim all my cases in very short order to less than .001" variation -- if that much. Probably 95% + of the cases are 'dead-nuts-on' for overall length. Quick and accurate: a combination hard to beat.

http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pid=3 ... te_Trimmer

[AJMD429]

I've found that the Lee Case Trimmer is great because it is foolproof, and with one simple modification, VERY fast.

I'll try to find pics of what I did to speed up mine.

Basically, I liked the idea that they just can't trim cases too short, and that they are inexpensive, and I can do only a couple operations sitting in a comfortable chair, even watching television - basically the sorting, cleaning, depriming, inspection, and trimming.

I couldn't really do that if I had to use a bench-mounted and/or motorized trimmer.

What I didn't like was that on the occasions where I DID want to use a drill (not so much to speed things up, as to make the hands less fatigued if I do more than a couple hundred at once), the Lee setup makes you chuck the case, and if not locked in the holder just right, it can rotate eccentrically, and you still have to get the 'stud' into the case, and push the cutter to do the trim. Once done, you have to take the case out of the drill (stopping it), and exchange it for the next one. Lots of handling of parts, not easy, at least for me.

So. . . what I did was have the 'handle' turned down (The drill I used then was only a 1/4" chuck one) so IT would fit into a drill, which I could then leave on (the tricky part was finding an appropriate speed). After that, trimming was just a matter of picking up a case out of one bin, slipping it into the case holder, a quick turn of the locking handle, slip the case mouth over the stud and bottom the guide/length gauge out to trim the case, then pull it off, and with a quick twist of the handle, drop the case off into the other bin, and repeat the process.

The case holder on the right in the picture is the only part you have to handle, and although the picture doesn't show it all, it's basically just like an ordinary shell holder, with a larger hole, that is threaded, and a little knurled 'button' that screws in to hold the case snugly and provide a surface for the gauge's pin to abut against.

[Chuck 100 yd]

I know what you are saying Joe.
I am in the middle of trimming 500 .45 colt cases right now.
I have an RCBS trim pro and it is slick but still I can only do 50 or so at a time without a rest. Hard on the old fingers don`t ya know.

[GoatGuy]

I've found that the Lee Case Trimmer is great because it is foolproof, and with one simple modification, VERY fast.

I'll try to find pics of what I did to speed up mine.

Basically, I liked the idea that they just can't trim cases too short, and that they are inexpensive, and I can do only a couple operations sitting in a comfortable chair, even watching television - basically the sorting, cleaning, depriming, inspection, and trimming.

I couldn't really do that if I had to use a bench-mounted and/or motorized trimmer.

What I didn't like was that on the occasions where I DID want to use a drill (not so much to speed things up, as to make the hands less fatigued if I do more than a couple hundred at once), the Lee setup makes you chuck the case, and if not locked in the holder just right, it can rotate eccentrically, and you still have to get the 'stud' into the case, and push the cutter to do the trim. Once done, you have to take the case out of the drill (stopping it), and exchange it for the next one. Lots of handling of parts, not easy, at least for me.

So. . . what I did was have the 'handle' turned down (The drill I used then was only a 1/4" chuck one) so IT would fit into a drill, which I could then leave on (the tricky part was finding an appropriate speed). After that, trimming was just a matter of picking up a case out of one bin, slipping it into the case holder, a quick turn of the locking handle, slip the case mouth over the stud and bottom the guide/length gauge out to trim the case, then pull it off, and with a quick twist of the handle, drop the case off into the other bin, and repeat the process.

The case holder on the right in the picture is the only part you have to handle, and although the picture doesn't show it all, it's basically just like an ordinary shell holder, with a larger hole, that is threaded, and a little knurled 'button' that screws in to hold the case snugly and provide a surface for the gauge's pin to abut against.

I'm with you Doc. Switched to Lee trimmers for many of the same reasons. Couldn't stand my Lyman trimmer. That Lyman SAAB was very consistant in it's inconsistancy. Finally had enough! Like you, I often wished the Lee was a little faster and your solution seem to be the answer. I'll have to give it a try. Thanks for the "heads-up".

[Buffboy]

I'm like the others, went to the Lee a long time ago. Most of mine required no modification to work with sized cases but the latest purchases have all needed fitting to do that. Don't know why they changed. I never cut down a a cutter, I just chuck into a drill press. That also works well to get the stems filed to fit. Not adjustable for length like my old RCBS but at least you wind up with consistent results. That's something the RCBS just refused to do.

[piller]

I purchased the Lee trimmers and also purchased a battery powered electric screwdriver from Wal Mart. The screwdriver fits exactly the hex head on the part which holds the shell and moves at what is for me a great speed. It is not nearly as fast as a drill and stops much quicker. Trimming cases over a trash can so that I don't get shavings into the carpet is a breeze and I can do it while watching Burn Notice. I am a fan of that show and since my family also likes it, we watch it together and that gives me a specific time to trim cases with the Lee trimmer and a battery powered screwdriver.

[Old Time Hunter]

Lee trimmer....+5

[Charles]

By far the simplest trimmer to adjust requires no adjustments. It is the file trim die. Just screw it in your press like a loading die and take off anything that sticks up with a couple of swipes of a mill file. A double cut file works best. You can then deburr and you are ready to go.

If you use an RCBS file trim die, it will also FL resize you cases. If you don't want your cases resized a Redding file trim die is what you want.

For a lathe type trimmer the Wilson can't be beaten for ease of use and accuracy. Adjustment is by a large screw that fits against the base of the cartridge which is held in a case holder. I keep a case trimmed to my favorite length just for setting the Wilson. To adjust, place the case in a holder and the holder on the trimmer and turn the screw in or out until the case mouth just touches the cutter. Lock the screw and trim away.

Seems like lots of folks like the Lee. I have no experience with that gizmo. It may be just the thing, but in general I am not a fan of Lee products.

[J Miller]

Charles,

I have limited experience with file trim dies. I only have one, a 66 vintage RCBS 303 Brit trim die and all it does is neck size.

Do they or did they make two versions of the trim die?

Joe

[Terry Murbach]

JOSE, YOU SET YOUR FORSTER CASE TRIMMER WITH YOUR VERNIER CALIPERS AND A SET OF FEELER GUAGES IS EVEN EASIER. FIRST YOU MEASURE THE LOA OF A CASE; THEN YOU PUT IT IN THE TRIMMER AND CUT THE CUTTER BAR UP AGAINST THE CASE; NOW SET THE RING BACK [ IT'S SET SCREW..] AGAINST THE FRAME AND SET IT WITH THE VERNIER OR THE CORRECT FEELER GUAGE AT HOW MANY THOUSANDS YOU NEED TO TAKE OFF THE CASE; DO NOT FORCE ANYTHING AND YOU'LL BE WITHIN A THOUSANDTHS OF AN INCH.

[J Miller]

Terry,

Thanks, I think I understand what you are telling me. I'll have to bring the trimmer up here in the light and give it a try.

Joe

[J Miller]

OH, speaking of case trimmer designs I just came up with a doozy. It's dead simple and would be soooo easy, even a brain dead zombie could trim cases.

I ain't gonna tell you about it till I get the details worked out.
Now I need a machinist and a tool and die maker. Oh, heck I'll just fake it.

Joe

[Charles]

Joe.. the 303 Brit is a special needs child. The Limeys cut their rifle chambers so large that you could almost put your socks in there. As the case headspaced on the rim, it was not a big problem. But if a handloader FL sizes his cases each time, it won't be long until he starts to get head separations. That is why most folks just neck size their cases. I feel certain that is why RCBS cuts their 303 Brit. file trim dies with a neck sizing reamer.

The 303 Brit aside, RCBS cuts their file trim dies with the same reamer as they use for the FL size dies. Redding on the other hand cuts their file trim dies so as to do no sizing of any kind on the case.

The RCBS file time dies also work as case forming dies. I have made many 8 X 57 cases from GI 30-06 cases with one. YOu can do the same thing with a Redding die, but you must give it a final pass through a FL size die.

I have a file trim die for every rifle and sixgun cartridge I load. Some are RCBS and others are Redding depending on how I want things to go. I find them very useful.

I bought a Wilson trimmer in 1959 and still use it today. I also have a Forster, but only use it with the neck turning and hollow pointing attatchments. For general triming I find the Wilson much easier to use.

[J Miller]

Joe.. the 303 Brit is a special needs child. The Limeys cut their rifle chambers so large that you could almost put your socks in there. As the case headspaced on the rim, it was not a big problem. But if a handloader FL sizes his cases each time, it won't be long until he starts to get head separations. That is why most folks just neck size their cases. I feel certain that is why RCBS cuts their 303 Brit. file trim dies with a neck sizing reamer.

The 303 Brit aside, RCBS cuts their file trim dies with the same reamer as they use for the FL size dies. Redding on the other hand cuts their file trim dies so as to do no sizing of any kind on the case.

The RCBS file time dies also work as case forming dies. I have made many 8 X 57 cases from GI 30-06 cases with one. YOu can do the same thing with a Redding die, but you must give it a final pass through a FL size die.

I have a file trim die for every rifle and sixgun cartridge I load. Some are RCBS and others are Redding depending on how I want things to go. I find them very useful.

I bought a Wilson trimmer in 1959 and still use it today. I also have a Forster, but only use it with the neck turning and hollow pointing attatchments. For general triming I find the Wilson much easier to use.

Charles,
I understand and agree with everything you say about the 303 Brit. My first bolt action center fire rifle was a No4 Mk1 and I've owned at least one ever since.

About the Wilson trimmer. I was looking on their site today and even loaded the .pdf instruction manual. But after reading it three times and studying the pics I'm still a bit confused.
>In the instructions they're saying to put the case in the holder; check.
>Then put the holder on the trimer; check
>Then but the case mouth up against the cutter; check
They said the cutter head needs to be butted against the bearing housing on the one end, and the big nut against the housing on the other.
>Then adjust the adjuster screw, and start cutting and when done readjust as needed; umm not check.
>They don't say anything about how to adjust it in the first place.

Can you shed some light on this for me? I like the looks of their trimmer, and the price is good too. I just don't understand the instructions.

Joe

[Kansas Ed]

My vote is here...I've had one for years and works flawlessly. Has a graduated fine tooth adjustment and universal chuck head. Make your own pilots easily on a lathe, or order from any vendor.

http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/case ... rimmer.php

Ed

[firefuzz]

I've used a Forster manual trimmer for years, attached a drill motor to it when I had a bunch of cases to trim. I wanted a power case trimmer, but didn't want to pay the price for a single use tool. So I'm going to this:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?p ... ber=721759

a drill press and the Lee cutter/guide assemblies for my bulk trimming. I don't trust the stop on the drill press to either be accurate, I guess you could make pilot cases for each caliber but the Lee system just seemed easier to mess with.

For the price of a power trimmer I got all the cutters/guides I needed, the Forster base and collets, and a bench top drill press that I can use for other projects when I'm not trimming cases.

Rob

[J Miller]

JOSE, YOU SET YOUR FORSTER CASE TRIMMER WITH YOUR VERNIER CALIPERS AND A SET OF FEELER GUAGES IS EVEN EASIER. FIRST YOU MEASURE THE LOA OF A CASE; THEN YOU PUT IT IN THE TRIMMER AND CUT THE CUTTER BAR UP AGAINST THE CASE; NOW SET THE RING BACK [ IT'S SET SCREW..] AGAINST THE FRAME AND SET IT WITH THE VERNIER OR THE CORRECT FEELER GUAGE AT HOW MANY THOUSANDS YOU NEED TO TAKE OFF THE CASE; DO NOT FORCE ANYTHING AND YOU'LL BE WITHIN A THOUSANDTHS OF AN INCH.

Terry,
I sat down and did what you said last night. I found I could get consistency that way, but no matter what the cases were all exactly .001" shorter than what I wanted.
I know you said I'd get within a .001", but I figured if I could get short consistently I should be able to get it dead on.
My frustration level sky rocketed and I had to walk away. Later after calming down I went back and did some checking.

What I found out was each time I'd get the adjusting screw where I want it, then tighten the lock screw, the adjusting screw would move.

So I took it apart. Found two things;
A: The lock screw was a cup point with teeth. Each time I'd turn it in the teeth would grab the adjusting screw and turn it just a hair.
B: The adjusting screw was chewed up from 30+ years of this toothy lock screw munching on it.

I went to the hardware store this morning and bought some replacements ...

To be continued.

Joe

[Boreman]

Joe good luck on the adjustment. Many suggestions here.Get yourself an old Wilson trimmer.Class act and will last forever.I have been trimming cases with these 2 trimmers for 40 yrs.Never needed any thing else and the case holders are indestructable.I keep a light coat of Kroil on the holders when I am finished. They are in as good of shape as the day I purchased them.

[J Miller]

Joe good luck on the adjustment. Many suggestions here.Get yourself an old Wilson trimmer.Class act and will last forever.I have been trimming cases with these 2 trimmers for 40 yrs.Never needed any thing else and the case holders are indestructable.I keep a light coat of Kroil on the holders when I am finished. They are in as good of shape as the day I purchased them.

Boreman,
Did you see my post in responses to Charles post? If so could you answer it?

Joe

[Charles]

Joe.. I don't know what the direction say but

1. Put a case in the holder
2. Place the holder with the case on the trimmer rails
3. Slide the cutter into the trimmer on the right.
4. Turn the cutter handle until it won't go in any more and just spins against the end of the trimmer.

That is all there is to it. Length is adjusted by the large screw on the end opposite from the cutter. Just back off the set screw and turn it in or out. It is the end of this screw that bears against the case head in the holder.

When putting the case into the holder you tap the base a little to keep it from spinning in the holder. To remove, just tap the case in the holder on the mouth. I place the trimmer in a vise and tape the case base in and case mouth out on the little flat anvil on the back of the vise.

Wilson like to sell holders, but I trim 30-06, 270, 8mm, and probably many more in the .308 holder.

[J Miller]

Charles,
I guess I'll just have to see it to understand it. From the instructions and your description, somethings missing. There has to be room to put the extra long case in so you can trim it. Gotta be some slack somewhere. But the way the instructions read the cutter is locked stationary so it won't move. You use the big screw to set the length yes, but there has to be room to maneuver the case in and out.
I guess I'm being dense.

...........................................................

Trimmer escapade: epilogue.

At the hardware store I bought replacement set screws, two lengths, and adjustment screws, two lengths. Screws are 8-32 for those who want to know.

The new screws were all cup point and I wanted flat points. Ace didn't have any flat points so I set to and altered them to suit me.

Instead of the original 3/8" adjuster screw I used a 1/2" one. This gave me plenty of room to file the cup point to a smooth flat end.
The set screw was originally 1/8" but I chose a 3/16" replacement for the same reason.

To get a smooth flat surface I chucked the new screws into my drill motor and clamped it into the vise. Turned it on to a slow speed and began filing the end. In just a few minutes I had a flat end. Added a bevel and it was done. Did the same thing to the set screw.
Now I have a nice smooth adjuster screw and a set screw that won't chew up the adj screw.

After that I tried Terry's instructions and they worked. He said I'd be within a thousands of an inch and I was. I wanted 2.028", but got 2.029". Cool, I can live with that.

Joe

[J Miller]

I just finished trimming those cases I started last Thursday. This has got to be the most inconsistent bunch of trimmed cases I've ever done.
In spite of fixing the adjusting screw and it's locking screw; and even with following Terry's instructions, I got between .002" and .003" variation through out this batch. That is unacceptable!

I've figured out why and there is no way to fix it with the Forster trimmer I'm using. It will take purchasing a new trimmer.
What's happening is this:
To use the Forster trimmer you have several sizes of four fingered collets to hold the case rims.
The collet is controlled by a bell shaped piece that's turned in and out to lock the collet on the case rim. As it tightens and loosens the collet it moves forward and back.
The problem is rim diameters vary. And if one rim is smaller than another the collet will move forward more than the other as it locks onto the rim.
It's just the mechanical way of this thing. If all my rims were the same then all the case lengths would be too.

So, I need a new trimmer. Period, end of story.

So far the only trimmer I've seen that does not use the rim to hold the case is the Wilson trimmer. I'd like to see one in the flesh but nobody here in central IL stocks this stuff.

Any body got one they'd sell me for cheap???? Or loan me so I can check it out really good???

Joe

[Ben_Rumson]

Lee FCDs don't notice a couple of thou...

[J Miller]

Lee FCDs don't notice a couple of thou...

Tis true. It's the only saving grace to this debacle.

Joe

[AJMD429]

The problem is rim diameters vary. And if one rim is smaller than another the collet will move forward more than the other as it locks onto the rim. It's just the mechanical way of this thing. If all my rims were the same then all the case lengths would be too.

So, I need a new trimmer. Period, end of story.

So far the only trimmer I've seen that does not use the rim to hold the case is the Wilson trimmer. I'd like to see one in the flesh but nobody here in central IL stocks this stuff.

You probably already know this, but although the Lee uses the rim, the exact rim diameter doesn't affect the trim-to length, as the cutter-pin abuts through the primer hole to a flat surface flush with the case head. Once I got used to it, it was faster than the universal 'collet' holders I've used.

Dunno if that helps, but good luck...

[Pepe Ray]

Hey there Joe;
I've got a news flash for you buddy. Don't feel bad. This arguement has been going on for years. Every once in a while I'll stick my nose in but I get ignored so you can do the same but.
The Forster trimmer does NOT move the collet once it is stopped against the square shoulder machined in as a STOP.
Unless of course you've got it gooped up with lubricant.
Would you put lube on the face of your calipers/michrometers before taking a measurement? 'Course not. So why allow lube to cause variation in the collet jaws?
Look more closely at the design of the system and don't leap to conclusions. The collet DOES come to a firm stop in the same place each time, if no lube is present. The same issue is present in the gripping surfaces of the collet as it grasps the rim. Variation in rim diameter is of no consequence as the turning of the threads will stop when thy've reached there limit.
In the mean time the collet has stopped, dead, unless you've allowed lube to remain on the surface of the stop plate or the face of the collet.
They really did know what they were doing there.

I agree about the set screw and adjusting screw. That fix you made should make adjusting a breeze. Nice going.
Pepe Ray

[J Miller]

The problem is rim diameters vary. And if one rim is smaller than another the collet will move forward more than the other as it locks onto the rim. It's just the mechanical way of this thing. If all my rims were the same then all the case lengths would be too.

So, I need a new trimmer. Period, end of story.

So far the only trimmer I've seen that does not use the rim to hold the case is the Wilson trimmer. I'd like to see one in the flesh but nobody here in central IL stocks this stuff.

You probably already know this, but although the Lee uses the rim, the exact rim diameter doesn't affect the trim-to length, as the cutter-pin abuts through the primer hole to a flat surface flush with the case head. Once I got used to it, it was faster than the universal 'collet' holders I've used.

Dunno if that helps, but good luck...

AJ,
Yeah, I know how those work. I've got several of them. I've just had lots of trouble using them. Fingers get tired, pilots real tight in the cases, that kind of thing. Plus my 30-30 one cuts the cases at 2.030, and that's longer than my specs.
I may have to do something like that though. This Forster thing I've had is giving me such inconsistent lengths, it's worse than not trimming at all.

Hey there Joe;
I've got a news flash for you buddy. Don't feel bad. This arguement has been going on for years. Every once in a while I'll stick my nose in but I get ignored so you can do the same but.
The Forster trimmer does NOT move the collet once it is stopped against the square shoulder machined in as a STOP.
Unless of course you've got it gooped up with lubricant.
Would you put lube on the face of your calipers/michrometers before taking a measurement? 'Course not. So why allow lube to cause variation in the collet jaws?
Look more closely at the design of the system and don't leap to conclusions. The collet DOES come to a firm stop in the same place each time, if no lube is present. The same issue is present in the gripping surfaces of the collet as it grasps the rim. Variation in rim diameter is of no consequence as the turning of the threads will stop when thy've reached there limit.
In the mean time the collet has stopped, dead, unless you've allowed lube to remain on the surface of the stop plate or the face of the collet.
They really did know what they were doing there.

I agree about the set screw and adjusting screw. That fix you made should make adjusting a breeze. Nice going.
Pepe Ray

Pepe Ray,
I'll not ignore you at all. Matter of fact I'll take it apart and make sure that area is clean.
The thing is, this trimmer has become extremely inconsistent and unless I can find the reason it will go in the scrap bucket.

I'm using a new collet since the old one got violated by a stray tom cat that got in our house and did a naughty many years ago. I didn't find it till the damage had been done. I cleaned and continued to use the old collet for quite a few years and didn't notice this much variation.

Last year I bought a new collet and sent the cutter back to Forster to be sharpened.
I wonder if maybe there's a burr or something on the new one?
But now that I've trimmed all the cases I'll see what is inside there.

Thanks for the design education.

Joe

[J Miller]

Pepe Ray,

I took the trimmer apart and studied it. I see what you're saying.
Nothing inside to cause variations in the collets position, only a tiny amount of oil. Oil on the threads of the adjuster though.

So, now that I know how this thing supposedly works, I'm still baffled as to why I have such an unacceptable variation of trimmed lengths.

Joe

[Ben_Rumson]

Variations in dwell time & pressure is what I've seen..

[J Miller]

Variations in dwell time & pressure is what I've seen..

Hmmm, does that mean my trimmer needs a new set of points and condenser, or that the cam is out of time?

Joe

[Pepe Ray]

I suppose that pressure and dwell time may explain the variation in measurements . If that's valuable to you. -O.K.
Personally, the presence of any lube between the mating surfaces is an aggravation. Because Forster never included this cautionary in their operating instructions, it took me a long time to isolate the reason for the variation. Lube in wrong place will cause these problems. We've been indoctrinated to lube our equipment so that it wont wear out. Oh boy!!!!
The lube moves as it is compressed. It will never allow a consistently accurate thickness, responding to pressure variation from the turning of the threaded Collete. It's gotta GO!!! Also the surface of the part that contains the case rims. Same reason. Pushing the case against a lubed surface will never allow a consistent trim length. No matter where you set it.
This will, no doubt, aggravate all those who champion the Wilson CL Gages. Sorry about that. I wouldn't disparage a fine tool as many have done to the Forster.
Pepe Ray

[J Miller]

I suppose that pressure and dwell time may explain the variation in measurements . If that's valuable to you. -O.K.
Personally, the presence of any lube between the mating surfaces is an aggravation. Because Forster never included this cautionary in their operating instructions, it took me a long time to isolate the reason for the variation. Lube in wrong place will cause these problems. We've been indoctrinated to lube our equipment so that it wont wear out. Oh boy!!!!
The lube moves as it is compressed. It will never allow a consistently accurate thickness, responding to pressure variation from the turning of the threaded Collete. It's gotta GO!!! Also the surface of the part that contains the case rims. Same reason. Pushing the case against a lubed surface will never allow a consistent trim length. No matter where you set it.
This will, no doubt, aggravate all those who champion the Wilson CL Gages. Sorry about that. I wouldn't disparage a fine tool as many have done to the Forster.
Pepe Ray

Pepe Ray,
After taking it apart and looking it over I removed all the lube from the inside of the collet holder and from the collet. Some small debris on the collet steps was removed too. I wiped the inside of the adjuster out as well.
No improvement.
The only thing I can come up with is the new adjuster screw might have some ridges or burrs on it I can't see and they are polishing off as I use it. I've had to adjust it ever half dozen cases or so to keep anywhere near my target trim length.

I've got some 600 grit wet or dry and I'm going to cut a circular shape out and put it against the rear of the cutter housing. Then wet it down with oil and run the adjuster screw against it to make sure it's squared away and polished.

After that if this thing don't cooperate, I'm gonna replace it. I've tried to be as consistent with the shell holder tightness as I can. It's got to be mechanical some way or another.

Joe

[gimdandy]

Since you said "the problem is the rim diameters vary" and you are obviously willing to go to great lengths to make your cases OAL consistently exact to specs that you want , why then do you ignore the seemingly obvious and not expend the effort to make your case rim diameters consistent ?

[Pepe Ray]

G'mornin Joe;
A caffiene burst leads me to ask you this question. All reloading manuals recommend a maximum and minimum or "trim to" length for our ammo, Correct?
Why do you suppose that they allow 10 thousandths difference?
Pepe Ray

[J Miller]

Since you said "the problem is the rim diameters vary" and you are obviously willing to go to great lengths to make your cases OAL consistently exact to specs that you want , why then do you ignore the seemingly obvious and not expend the effort to make your case rim diameters consistent ?

gimdandy,
I was corrected by Pepe Ray on that one. The rim diameter don't matter.
But to answer your question; to make all the rims exactly the same would take a lathe and I don't have one.

G'mornin Joe;
A caffiene burst leads me to ask you this question. All reloading manuals recommend a maximum and minimum or "trim to" length for our ammo, Correct?
Why do you suppose that they allow 10 thousandths difference?
Pepe Ray

Pepe Ray,
Yep, I understand that. But if say I aimed for a length of 2.028" and hit a length of 2.029" and it was consistent I'd not be complaining. But you know as well as I do that if one case trims to 2.027" and then the next one trims to 2.025" and the next to 2.029" (this is exactly what's happening by the way) then it is going to be impossible to get a consistent crimp and accuracy will suffer.
If this thing would trim to say 2.028 ± .001" I'd quite griping.
But as I've reported it's all over the place. So gonna try that one last thing; polishing the face of the new adjusting screw and after that .....

Oh, one more comment and I'm surprised nobody's asked me about this; I zeroed my dial caliper and checked it against a standard and it's dead nuts on. I was actually thinking maybe the caliper was going bonkers, but it's not.

Joe

[gunner69]

Another "+" for Lee. I have been using them for years to do over 17 calibers. I even had one custom made, by Lee, for my 6.5 Grendel. They are simple to use (I motorized them) and cut each case to a standard length.

This reminds me to look for my RCBS trimmer I packed away. Time to sell that joker!

[J Miller]

Another "+" for Lee. I have been using them for years to do over 17 calibers. I even had one custom made, by Lee, for my 6.5 Grendel. They are simple to use (I motorized them) and cut each case to a standard length.

This reminds me to look for my RCBS trimmer I packed away. Time to sell that joker!

Gunner69,

Welcome to the forum.

I've had a lot of folks mention the Lee trimmers. I've got some too and yes they work. But without motorizing them it takes for ever. At my age forever is too long.

I make break down and check into Lees motorized accessories for their trimmers and see what I can do about it. But I'm not sure.

Which RCBS trimmer do you have, the Trim Pro or the rotary one they only mention in their site?

Joe

[firefuzz]

I've used a Forster manual trimmer for years, attached a drill motor to it when I had a bunch of cases to trim. I wanted a power case trimmer, but didn't want to pay the price for a single use tool. So I'm going to this:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?p ... ber=721759

a drill press and the Lee cutter/guide assemblies for my bulk trimming. I don't trust the stop on the drill press to either be accurate, I guess you could make pilot cases for each caliber but the Lee system just seemed easier to mess with.

For the price of a power trimmer I got all the cutters/guides I needed, the Forster base and collets, and a bench top drill press that I can use for other projects when I'm not trimming cases.

Rob

THIS IDEA WILL NOT WORK!!!!! The Lee cutter spuds are designed to bottom out on the Lee trimmer case holder which is solid in the center. If it has nothing to bottom out on, the collets on the Forster Power Trimmer have a hole thru the center, the cutter will not stop until the case neck is about 2/3 gone. (ask me how I know ) Fortunately I have a LOT of .223 brass.

But now I have a nifty drill press at the house.

Rob

[41 Redhawk]

Hi Joe,

I was going to mention what pepe ray mentioned but he beat me to it. In addition to what he said however, I do find that I need to apply a small amount of lube to the back of the "fingers" on the collet. This keeps them moving freely in relation to the cone shaped holder. I use a light oil like rem lube and apply a drop to each of the fingers each time I change collets.

I also find there is a time when the varitions in case rims can cause a problem. This is when a smaller rimmed case is trimmed. If the collet holder is backed out only enough to release that case and the next case inserted has a larger rim, the possiblility exists to not get the larger rimmed case fully seated in to the collet and that case will be trimmed short. The solution is to be sure and back the holder off enough to allow any case to fully seat.

I also keep a properly trimmed dummy case on hand for setup. On it I use a sharpie to mark the trim to length and the collet needed. The way I setup and run mine is like this:

1. Loosen the screw that retains the entire adjustment collar.
2. Insert the dummy case into the collet and use the cutter shft to push the case lightly in to the collet while tightening the collet holder.
3. While still lightly holding the cutter shaft against the case, push the adjustment coller in against the frame and tighten the set screw. I never have to touch the adjustment screw when I setup like this.
4. To trim a case I put the case in the collet and agian push lightly against it with the cutter shaft while tightening the collet holder.
5. Trim. After trimming most off I will continue to turn the cutter shaft and loosen the collet holder until the case spins and then I tighten it back down. (I don't know if that help the consistency any but it does seem to work more smoothly that way)
6. Repeat 4 & 5 as needed or until you get tired!

My cases vary no more that .001" using the above method.

PS, You did check the screws that hold everything to the frame for tightness didn't you?

[J Miller]

Terry,

I do about 90% of what you described. About the only thing I haven't done is lube the back sides of the collet fingers.
I'll try that.

I did get the adjuster screw polished square, but now I'm out of cases to trim.

Joe

[J Miller]

Terry,

Yesterday I polished the end of the adjusting screw, made it nice and flat and smooth.
Today I cleaned up the trimmer and did what you suggested, sprayed some REM DRI-LUBE on the back side of the collet and the adjuster. I figured that would lube it and not cause trouble
Then I found a case and set the cutter. The cases came out 2.030" but didn't seem to vary more than .001". I only had that one last box to try. So I'm done now. Perhaps it will work again when next I use it.

Joe

[41 Redhawk]

Joe,

Before I started lubing the collet I could actually feel it sticking a bit in the holder. I hope that solves your problem.

Terry

PS, I could send you a few hundred to test if you would like!