OT-5.45x39 Anybody have one?

[SteveR]

I just bought a Sagia in 5.45x39 and would like some input on the round. Any web sites? I found Sagia12 any more?

I plan on doing a conversion. Get rid of the sporter stock and go with a pistol grip, I will be 922 compliant with new FCG + stock & grip, any thoughts?

Thanks,
Steve

[AJMD429]

Sounds interesting!

I like the Siaga 7.62x39 I have; works reliably, pretty accurate, even with the factory sights.

The magazines on the 7.62x39 aren't fully (they can be modified somehow) compatible with the AK magazines, but for that caliber they are widely available so it doesn't matter. Dunno about the 5.45 ones.

I haven't modified mine, but have thought about better sights. I do have the side-mount scope mount, and it is well-made, but you can't use the iron sights if it is on. Probably a good gun for a red-dot setup.

Anyway, hopefully someone will post on the 5.45 round, which will better answer your question. Good luck with the project.

[O.S.O.K.]

I've got two AK-74 clones. One is a build that I did on a Bulgarian kit - nice carbine. The other is a Romanian SAR-2 that I've extensively modified. They are both great shooters and I have a bunch of ammo for them as its about the only affordable milsurp rifle ammo available now.

Here's my Bulgy build:



Here's a link to J&G who has Russian 5.45 for $144 a 1080 round can: http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php ... ts_id/2940

Here's a good video on converting the Saigas: http://vimeo.com/2787027

I have two Saiga's that I've done the pistol grip conversions - they are also both great guns - 308 and 223.

Here's a pic of the .223 - which is the same basic gun as your 5.45 version:



As you can see, I chose a Romanian folding stock for mine. The 30 round mag is Surefire. However, I trimmed down the fron trunion and it now accpets and runs perfectly well with 5.45 mags too!

And here's my 308 with collapsible stock:

[O.S.O.K.]

Ah -AIM Surplus has Russian 5.45 for $130/can. http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=A54539R

[txpete]

nice looking carbines.you do good work.

pete

[O.S.O.K.]

Thanks - good enough for govt work anyway

[txpete]

[Streetstar]

I'm curious if anyone makes brass cased 5.45. One of these days, the supply of the cheap surplus stuff may dry up and i would be left with a boat anchor if i couldnt get reloadable cartridges for it. I thought somewhat seriously about a 5.45 firearm for plinking when the "serious shootin' " is done -- but i have held back due to that point

But 1080 rounds for 120 bucks or so ------- sheesh . A few hundred dollars would likely net a lifetime supply for me for a rifle like that though

[O.S.O.K.]

With all of the 5.45x39 chambered firearms in this country, somebody will start loading for it. If they don't, I will!

[txpete]

that round uses a 5.60 mm (0.220 in) bullet and no one makes brass for it or dies.the milsurp ammo is dirt cheap and the best way to go.

pete

[CBinNH]

Hi SteveR,
I have a High Standard/Interarms WZ88 Tantal (Polish AK-74). I picked it up a while back when ammo was cheap. It is getting reasonable again. I have several thousand rounds of 70's & 80's corrosive Russian surplus I was able to get for $300 a crate delivered (2 spam cans of 1080 rounds). I wanted a centerfire plinker I could shoot without breaking the bank. I was surprised at the accuracy I get with it. My 50 yd groups are around an inch. I don't attempt to reload for it. Boxer brass cases are not readily available. I have heard of it being formed from 225 Win brass, but don't think it would be worth the trouble.

[awp101]

I love my SAR2.

The 5.45 was the Soviet response to the 5.56. It usually runs a 60g pill IIRC and doesn't have quite the speed of the 5.56.

Buffalo Arms has brass...at $3/ea. It's reformed, probably from .222 Rem. At one time I thought Graf's listed brass and CH4D or someone like that listed dies.

Mine hasn't seen the range in about 6-8 months. I need to change that....

[SteveR]

Very nice builds!! I live in NY so I have to have the neutered version. I would love to pick up one of the Bulgarian ones out there.

I pretty much finished my conversion today, started last night. Only a couple of mistakes.

Ordered wrong Axis Pin Rifle Plate, so I will get a couple of hitch pins.

Ordered wrong bullet guide, I got one for 7.62, it is to small/short not high enough to act as a feed ramp, I thin if I add material to the bottom it will work fine. I really don't want to order another when I dont even have 30 rnd mags.

Had to cut material off one side of the hammer to fit bolt hold open, and get the pin to be able to hold a hitch pin on.

I ordered the Tapco Saw style pistol grip. Weird set up, I needed to drill a hold in the bottom to line up with grip nut. Plus it was hollow and came with a 1 1/2 inch bolt. Almost looks like you could use it with AR type lowers.

Now I need to find plugs to cover up the holes left over from the old trigger group. Maybe I can find something at Lowe's.

I found some high temp paint that matches very nice.

Steve

[SteveR]

Sounds interesting!

I like the Siaga 7.62x39 I have; works reliably, pretty accurate, even with the factory sights.

The magazines on the 7.62x39 aren't fully (they can be modified somehow) compatible with the AK magazines, but for that caliber they are widely available so it doesn't matter. Dunno about the 5.45 ones.

I haven't modified mine, but have thought about better sights. I do have the side-mount scope mount, and it is well-made, but you can't use the iron sights if it is on. Probably a good gun for a red-dot setup.

Anyway, hopefully someone will post on the 5.45 round, which will better answer your question. Good luck with the project.

Thanks, form what I can find is they take a different style mag altogether. The 5.45 is smaller than the 7.62, its like a short .233. I thought when I first saw them they were just a necked down 7.62, but the Russians made a whole new round.

Steve

[SteveR]

I've got two AK-74 clones. One is a build that I did on a Bulgarian kit - nice carbine. The other is a Romanian SAR-2 that I've extensively modified. They are both great shooters and I have a bunch of ammo for them as its about the only affordable milsurp rifle ammo available now.

Here's my Bulgy build:



Here's a link to J&G who has Russian 5.45 for $144 a 1080 round can: http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php ... ts_id/2940

Here's a good video on converting the Saigas: http://vimeo.com/2787027

I have two Saiga's that I've done the pistol grip conversions - they are also both great guns - 308 and 223.

Here's a pic of the .223 - which is the same basic gun as your 5.45 version:



As you can see, I chose a Romanian folding stock for mine. The 30 round mag is Surefire. However, I trimmed down the fron trunion and it now accpets and runs perfectly well with 5.45 mags too!

And here's my 308 with collapsible stock:

Very nice guns!! Thank you for the links!! I really wish I could have a folding stock, but the enlightened ones in NY say I can't.

Steve

Steve

[SteveR]

Ah -AIM Surplus has Russian 5.45 for $130/can. http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=A54539R

Thanks, Aim seems to always have the best prices. Plus they didn't gouge when many others were last year.

Steve

[SteveR]

that round uses a 5.60 mm (0.220 in) bullet and no one makes brass for it or dies.the milsurp ammo is dirt cheap and the best way to go.

pete

Hey Pete,

I was thinking just cut down 5.56 or .223, resize some 55 gainers to .221.

Dies look expensive tho, and with "cheap surplus" I think I will stock up on surplus. maybe pick up 10k or so.

Steve

[SteveR]

Hi SteveR,
I have a High Standard/Interarms WZ88 Tantal (Polish AK-74). I picked it up a while back when ammo was cheap. It is getting reasonable again. I have several thousand rounds of 70's & 80's corrosive Russian surplus I was able to get for $300 a crate delivered (2 spam cans of 1080 rounds). I wanted a centerfire plinker I could shoot without breaking the bank. I was surprised at the accuracy I get with it. My 50 yd groups are around an inch. I don't attempt to reload for it. Boxer brass cases are not readily available. I have heard of it being formed from 225 Win brass, but don't think it would be worth the trouble.

Very nice!! I love the underfolders!!

Steve

[SteveR]

I love my SAR2.

The 5.45 was the Soviet response to the 5.56. It usually runs a 60g pill IIRC and doesn't have quite the speed of the 5.56.

Buffalo Arms has brass...at $3/ea. It's reformed, probably from .222 Rem. At one time I thought Graf's listed brass and CH4D or someone like that listed dies.

Mine hasn't seen the range in about 6-8 months. I need to change that....

I hope to get to the range Tuesday!!!


Steve

[O.S.O.K.]

Post some pics of your work! Inquiring minds want to know!

[SteveR]

I hope to take a couple tomorrow night, just got the rest of the parts I need to finish!! Yeah!!

I might get one in 7.62x39, I liked the conversion. Except for replacing the hold bolt open spring, what a pain.

Steve

[Paladin]

I do not have a AK but do have a AR-15 in 5.45x39 and carried a AK-74(U) on a couple of trips and shot it a lot. The AR shoots great and was bought (The upper) due to the low price of the ammo to practice with. Shoots as good as some 5.56 and as I clean weapons after use it is not problem. As it works in regular AR mags it is very handy.

[SteveR]

I do not have a AK but do have a AR-15 in 5.45x39 and carried a AK-74(U) on a couple of trips and shot it a lot. The AR shoots great and was bought (The upper) due to the low price of the ammo to practice with. Shoots as good as some 5.56 and as I clean weapons after use it is not problem. As it works in regular AR mags it is very handy.

Is the upper one of the Smith & Wesson or Olympic Arms? I bet with the suppressor it makes for light quiet shooting.

Price of ammo was the main reason I went with this round. I hope to finish the conversion today and get some pics up.

Steve

[SteveR]

Here are a few pics:









Steve

[markinalpine]

This cartridge came up on another board I frequent, specifically about reloading. The most frequent response was, "Why bother, the surplus, steel cased, Berdan primed, corrosive stuff is so cheap," but I thought that was a cop-out, because the original poster was asking about reloading. I did some checking, and could find no reloading data in any manual I own, nor at several web-sites.
I found one short thread from two years ago, where that poster started talking abour reforming .223 brass (I think), and described going through 7 or 8 steps to resize the diameter down to .395", resize/reform the primer pocket, trim the now stretched out cartridge to the correct length, etc. until he had reloadable brass, so he concluded it was too much effort, but that he was going to continue to explore the issue, maybe starting with another cartridge. That's where he dropped it, again about two years ago.
I also found this article: http://home.comcast.net/~jfreeman16/reloading.htm
He starts with a discussion of the 7.62x39mm cartridge, then goes to the 5.45x39mm.
I hope this helps a little,
Mark

[SteveR]

This cartridge came up on another board I frequent, specifically about reloading. The most frequent response was, "Why bother, the surplus, steel cased, Berdan primed, corrosive stuff is so cheap," but I thought that was a cop-out, because the original poster was asking about reloading. I did some checking, and could find no reloading data in any manual I own, nor at several web-sites.
I found one short thread from two years ago, where that poster started talking abour reforming .223 brass (I think), and described going through 7 or 8 steps to resize the diameter down to .395", resize/reform the primer pocket, trim the now stretched out cartridge to the correct length, etc. until he had reloadable brass, so he concluded it was too much effort, but that he was going to continue to explore the issue, maybe starting with another cartridge. That's where he dropped it, again about two years ago.
I also found this article: http://home.comcast.net/~jfreeman16/reloading.htm
He starts with a discussion of the 7.62x39mm cartridge, then goes to the 5.45x39mm.
I hope this helps a little,
Mark

Thanks for the info and link, it was very helpful.

Steve

[SteveR]

I just was visiting the Saiga site, and one of the posters noticed I put the trigger guard on backwards, lol Hate when that happens. I was in a rush to get the conversion done.

Steve

[O.S.O.K.]

Not so much that you put the guard on backwards, but you secured the front too far back towards the trigger - its supposed to slip inside of the mag release "box" further up - if you used screws, just remove and re-install - or if rivets, grind away and re-install.

Looks good otherwise!

[IridiumRed]

I think its a bit of a "catch 22" situation.

Since the non reloadable 5.45 surplus ammo is so cheap right now, no manufacturer has much of a reason to make "aftermarket" ammo. Especially given the guns that are normally chambered in this round, and the purposes they're used, there isn't much demand for better ammo than the surplus either. Its not like many guys with AK74's or the derivatives are crying out for match grade ammo. The few other guns in this caliber like the SSG82 (I owned one for a while) are so rare that the demand is too small for the manufacturers as well

BUT, if / when surplus ammo dries up, people are going to have guns to be fed, and someone will start making the ammo. It will cost more of course, due to the weird head size and bullet diameter, but.... if the demand is there, the ammo will come.

[Paladin]

I do not have a AK but do have a AR-15 in 5.45x39 and carried a AK-74(U) on a couple of trips and shot it a lot. The AR shoots great and was bought (The upper) due to the low price of the ammo to practice with. Shoots as good as some 5.56 and as I clean weapons after use it is not problem. As it works in regular AR mags it is very handy.

Is the upper one of the Smith & Wesson or Olympic Arms? I bet with the suppressor it makes for light quiet shooting.

Price of ammo was the main reason I went with this round. I hope to finish the conversion today and get some pics up.

Steve

It is an Alexander Arms Upper and shoots great. The AWC can makes it safe to shoot without ear protection.

[awp101]

It is an Alexander Arms Upper and shoots great.

Ah, the .21 Genghis!