Hot times on the Border

Welcome to the Leverguns.Com Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here ... politely.

Moderators: AmBraCol, Hobie

Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.

Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Post Reply
Charles
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2004
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:29 pm
Location: Deep South Texas

Hot times on the Border

Post by Charles »

Things are heating up on the Border with major battles between the Mexican Goverment and the various drug cartels and between the cartels themselves.

Two days ago, at 6:00 pm, there was a major battle in down town Reynosa (across the river from McAllen, Texas) between the Zetas of the Gulf Cartel and Federal (Mexican) anti-drug forces. This was with heavy full auto weapons and grenades. Several people were killed grave yard dead.

Last month there was another major shoot out in Rio Bravo about 15 kilometers down river.

It seems that the new Mexican President is really trying to do something about these drug cartels.

For those not up to speed on these cartels, the Gulf Cartel grew out of the "criminal enterprise" of a guy named Juan N. Guerra, who started criminal life as a whisky smuggler in the 1930's. He grew to be in charge of most criminal activities (including pot smuggling) from Matamoros to Nuevo Laredo. I knew him fairly well when I was younger, as he held fort in a restraunt called the Piedras Negras in Matramoros Mexico. But that is another string of stories.

By the 1980's, Juan N. had turned control over to his nephew Juan Abrego who got into the cocaine trade. There are billions of dollars to be made in that trade. Abrego is now serving a multi-life sentence in the US Federal prison system, and leadership of the Cartel is unknown. It is possible the Cartel has split into several "mafia" type families in the various border cities.

In the past ten years, the Gulf Cartel has hired a bunch of U.S. trained Mexican Army spec/op anti-drug deserters. They form a private army under the control of the Gulf Cartel. They number several hundred and are armed with the state of the art weapons. They are called the "Zetas", which is "z" in the Spanish Alpabet. They are a bunch of stone killers.

The Gulf Cartel has a standing contract for two F.B.I. agents..any two. They want to kidnap them on the US side and take them to Mexico for payback, which will be torture and murder.

Then there is the Sinaloa Cartel who is moving in on the Gulf Cartel and they are fighting pitched battles in Nuevo Laredo, accross the border from Laredo Texas.

Another sideline of both Cartels is kidnapping. They will nab just about anybody who they think can be worth a little money. This is just a past ime and pen money activity for them.

We are now seeing a beefed up law enforcement presences on the US side of the River. They are expecting some kind of trouble, but are not saying what.

Please..please..please don't let this post morp into a border fence/illegal allien political issue. I want nothing to do with that discussion and don't make this post with any of that in mind. I am just trying to give a report on things are going in our sister republic to the South, at least on my end of the border lands.
ursavus.elemensis
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 157
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:09 pm
Location: South Central / South Eastern, PA

Post by ursavus.elemensis »

Too bad the bulk of our trained military is tied up fighting with unknown enemies of uncertain significance on the other side of the planet. Too bad the first American president in history who came into office having been Governor of Texas and having a first-name relationship with every governor in Mexico has done nothing to improve our relations and handle the law enforcement and border security issue with Mexico. I'm not sure what bothers me more: the wasted opportunities that Bush has let slide by, or the vast amount of my tax money he has poured into his other, non-urgent adventures.

It is only a matter oif time before we need to invade Mexico, with or without their "permission". Kidnapping FBI agents could and should be the trigger, but what forces are we going to do it with? The couple of guys who they have not sent to Iraq?
Last edited by ursavus.elemensis on Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
FWiedner
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8862
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:50 pm
Location: North Texas

Post by FWiedner »

Not to be flippant, but it's a long border, and there are as many crossings as there are fence-posts.

There are many small communities on the border where the primary language is spanish and whose sympathies lie on the southern side of that line. I'm not being critical, it's just history. To them, shopping the local black-market is like going to a Tiger-Mart.

One has to be curious what an increased police presence might accomplish, or whether it is just a dog-and-pony show.

:?
Last edited by FWiedner on Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Government office attracts the power-mad, yet it's people who just want to be left alone to live life on their own terms who are considered dangerous.

History teaches that it's a small window in which people can fight back before it is too dangerous to fight back.
mescalero1
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 4923
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:08 am
Location: Arizona headed for New Mexico

Post by mescalero1 »

I grew up on the border, those things have been going on since I can remember.
The guns are better now, the profit more lucrative.
For those of you unfamiliar with the area, the northern state is called La Frontera ( the frontier )
It has always been a wild & lawless place
See me offline, I will tell you about one of the things I have seen the government has done to prepare for the situation; you will feel MUCH better
User avatar
Old Time Hunter
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2388
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 11:18 am
Location: Wisconsin

Post by Old Time Hunter »

First and foremost, don't call it "OUR" sister republic! It sure the hell ain't mine!

Second, why do people even contemplate the use of any "drugs" not for medical use? If nobody did 'em, they would not have a market. I just don't understand that....why???

Third, those buggers from a hostile, foreign country are actually invading our sovereign nation. Why are we not repelling the invaders at the border? It is apparent that we as a nation can attack a foreign country under the guise of "homeland security" against terrorism and a country that has "weapons of mass destruction"....what the heck is the difference between Al Quida and a Mexican "cartel"? Are not "drugs" a weapon of mass destruction?

Sorry 'bout the soap box, but I for one am sick of having to push "1" for English!
dr walker
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1194
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:44 am
Location: southwest Florida

Post by dr walker »

Charles,
I dont know how close you are to the border there, but stay safe.
Caco
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 123
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:53 am

Post by Caco »

Just an outsiders view---sounds like this has not ben taken seiriously enough in the past, and won't get better by ignoring it. Due to the length of the border area speady response would be neccessary. Maybe a combination of reg army navy marine and reserve air craft sharing time to patrol and react. Keep a couple on deck- ready to go at all times Maybe a couple in the air at unpredictable scheduals.. could be called training flights. This with some satalite dedication should do something.
Not a military expert so-would this be practical?
Is it we are not serious enough because of the past border relations?
Don't sound like waiting for a kidnapping while smuglers operate is much of a plan.
Last edited by Caco on Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Charles
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2004
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:29 pm
Location: Deep South Texas

Post by Charles »

Well, there really is no black market as I would understand that term.

US folks go to Mexico for cheap booze, pharmacuticals and sex. It is bought there and brought back here. Yep, that includes STDs.

The illegal stuff that goes South by smugglers are consumer good, guns and ammo. There are also lots of heavy machinery, trucks and machine tools that go south on phony or "cooked" paper work.

The Mexican folks come to the US for consumer goods although Mexico has severly restricted how much they can take back. They can still take allot back, but they must pay "mordida" to Mexican customs and that cuts down the "bargin quality of their purchases.

Those who have the money also buy real estate here, as their investment is far, far safe on this side of the river.

The illegal stuff that comes North by smugglers are 99.9% illegal narcotic drugs.

There are many small and large communities on the border whose major language is Spanish. In my home town (Brownsville) which has a population of 190K, you will hear far more Spanish spoken than English. In fact you can not get a job working with the public if you don't speak Spanish. That is the way it has always been along the border. The land that started out as Texas was part of New Spain, then Mexico and then Texas and now the United States. The change in flags didn't change the matrix culture and Spanish has been spoken down here longer than English has been spoken in New England.

All that being said, the vast majority of the folks have their primary allegance to the United States. I was here when 9-11 happened and the angry and patriotic response down here was just as strong as anywhere in the Country.

It is a mistake to confuse language and national identification. I speak very good Spanish, and think well of Mexico (most of the time), but I am red, white and blue through and through.

We do have allot of Mexican citizens living on this side of the border and to be certain they retain their Mexican identify, but the Mexican-Americans on this side of the border have been her for generations and generations have has shed their blood for this country right along side of the others. Blood is red and not white or brown.

There is and never will be any need to invade Mexico. If we think that Iraq is a "tar baby" we are stuck to, then Mexico would double that in spades.

U.S. criminals have always found Mexico a good place to be and do business. Last week they arrested on of thos escapted convicts in Mexico City. Our criminal activity has always spilled accross the border.

In the same manner their criminal activity spills accross the border and hits us on the border. The present condition is not new, in fact if was far worse in the period of 1910 to 1920. It just seems to be heating up now and that was the subject of the post.

Life on the Border is a riddle to most folks and they don't understand the complex social and historical dynamics. Even the folks who move down here from someplace else don't get it. You just about have to be born and raised her to make any sense out of it.

That said, it has it's charm. Most border folks return home sooner or later and that is the only life we understand. We are just as baffled by the way you folks live as you are by us.
Charles
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2004
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:29 pm
Location: Deep South Texas

Post by Charles »

dr walker wrote:Charles,
I dont know how close you are to the border there, but stay safe.
I am currently about 140 miles away due to work. But my home and my wife are three miles from the Rio Grande as the crow flys. If the crow has to drive a car, it is about 6 miles. I will be back down there for good when I retire in June of this year.

I grew up down there and have always had a rifle or pistol close at hand. It is nice that the Texas CHL laws have now made it legal. I don't leave the house without a 1911, Sig or Browning Hi-Power. The rest of my guns are just play toys!

There are things about Border life that make me so mad I could spit nails, but when it is all said and done I like it here. I know that sounds crazy, but it is the truth.
Caco
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 123
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:53 am

Post by Caco »

evidently am nieve :oops: especially regarding towns right on the border.
Still gotta think it's a matter of attitude-you have to want it controlled or won't start to happen.
Do folks like it the way it is??!!
Dave
mescalero1
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 4923
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:08 am
Location: Arizona headed for New Mexico

Post by mescalero1 »

It is not a question of liking or not liking it, it is the reality of the situation.
I am going to retire soon and move back, as the previous post said; most of us who grew up there like it, keep our pistols close at hand & live normal uneventful lives.
It does get EXCITING from time to time.
User avatar
Griff
Posting leader...
Posts: 20803
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: OH MY GAWD they installed a STOP light!!!

Post by Griff »

Charles,
I'll second Dr. Walker's admonition. Being raised in Southern California, the attitudes are much the same. The heritage is unique to the southern border states. I ALWAYS get strange looks when I surprise myself with Spanish outta this very Irish looking mug! I've worked with many hispanics that are offended when I speak Spanish... they often feel I'm condescending, when in fact, I, too enjoy the opportunity to practice my all-too-infrequent Spanish. And, as my Spanish is more Castillan than Mexico's, sometimes, it DOES sound so. As, very often, they enjoy the opportunity to practice their seldom used English skills. (I also enjoy getting a rise out of some my more... "intolerant" American brethern by pretending I don't speak English when they get indignant or abusive when confronted with someone that doesn't like to speak English. Probably not very nice, but I've never claimed to be!)

As a frequent visitor to the Valley, usually Laredo, I tend to watch the activities on both sides of the border. I'd been hoping some of last year's hostilities had settled down. Thanks for the update.
Griff,
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93

There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
User avatar
FWiedner
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8862
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:50 pm
Location: North Texas

Post by FWiedner »

Well, there really is no black market as I would understand that term.


Charles, I think that you need to get out more. There are is contraband and "duty-free" merchandise sold at every border crossing, Class 1 on down, from El Paso to Brownsville.
Those who have the money also buy real estate here, as their investment is far, far safe on this side of the river.
Unless DHS wants to run a border fence or some body needs a NAFTA super-highway...
The illegal stuff that comes North by smugglers are 99.9% illegal narcotic drugs.
Uh...maybe you mean 99.9% Illegal aliens...
All that being said, the vast majority of the folks have their primary allegance to the United States. I was here when 9-11 happened and the angry and patriotic response down here was just as strong as anywhere in the Country.


Until you start talking about controlling immigration, then you're a "Gringo" and just don't understand the culture.

:)
Government office attracts the power-mad, yet it's people who just want to be left alone to live life on their own terms who are considered dangerous.

History teaches that it's a small window in which people can fight back before it is too dangerous to fight back.
User avatar
Hobie
Moderator
Posts: 13902
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:54 pm
Location: Staunton, VA, USA
Contact:

Post by Hobie »

Well, Charles this is a darn interesting topic. Don't know quite how to categorize it but it must be on topic as in years past a lot of leverguns went to that area... :wink:

Keep us up to date, will you. The border has been important to internal politics since at least 1836...
Sincerely,

Hobie

"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
Charles
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2004
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:29 pm
Location: Deep South Texas

Post by Charles »

Griff... I have noticed that racial attitudes differ along the border. I have spent much time in El Paso and on the New Mexico/Mexico border.

The resentment toward "gavachos" in those places are very high and I got lots of hard looks and cold shoulders.

The attitude in the "Valley" is entirely different. I don't experience any problems from the folks there. We live and work side by side with no rancor. When in the community, I speak as much or more Spanish as I do English and nobody seems to notice I am not a Mexican. At least not in any ways I can notice. They will start with me in English, but one Spanish word out of my mouth and everything flips to Spanish without batting an eye.

I developed most of my language skill in Ecuador where they speak " Castillano". I can't make heads or tales our of Border Spanish or Tex/Mex as it is neither Spanish nor English.. it is bears the same resemblance to Spanish as Ebonics does to English. I detest the corruption of the language. Growing up there, I am fluent in Tex/Mex profanity.

So, I resist the use of Texas/Mex except for a few phrases. I continue on with my formal correct Spanish. Sometimes they look at the and ask me to repeat and often they say.... Oh you sound just like Abuelo (Grandfather) who came from Mexico and spoke good Spanish. I always take that as a complement.

I do get tickled at times, when in a group and I am speaking Spanish... I can always notice some folks getting very nervous.. They think I am "La Migra". A few of them start to move toward the door and try to make it look they are no doing what they are doing.. What a hoot!!!

Things have changed since I grew up. We used to take our rifle and pistol and went down to the river to hunt and plink. We would drive the levee and drop of to the river side when it looked like a good place to plink or hunt. Nobody bothered us , but the Border Patrol would check us out anytime they saw our tracks heading toward the river. They never bothers\ed us and often times joined us in pistol practice.

I ran accross Bill Jordon more than once down there. I can tell you that man CAN shoot a pistol and a rifle. I could keep up with him with a rifle as I was deep into match shooting in those days. But, I would just put my pistols away so as not to humiliate myself.

These days nobody goes down there as it is unsafe. The farmers and ranchers go armed at all times. The Border Patrol presence is very, very heavy and if you don't belong there, they will ask you to leave. They are not fun guys anymore, but I can understand why. In fact they park on the levee and stop you if you try and drive there.

I do long for the old days on the border. It was wild and wooly on the Mexican side, but nobody bothered you if you minded your own business. Old Juan N. Guerra keep good order like a good crime boss does. He didn't pray on the Americans was it was bad for business. He kept his "pistoleros" in line and they only made war on their own kind. He taught me how to tell good tiquila from bad tiquila and was always warm and kind to me. I alway knew to show him great defference and respect which showed I knew the rules of conduct. I never forget that he had killed or had killed more men than cancer.

But those days are gone and Mexico is a very dangerous place to be. There may come a time, when we can't even "go accross" to get a good meal at Garcia's or Arturo's. darn shame, what cocaine and cocaine money have done to two fine countries. Shure has changed all our lives whether you live on the Border or not.

I don't know who to blame. Is it the folks who grow it? The folks who process it? The folks who transport it? The folks who bring it into this country? or my own countrymen buy it, use it and create the whole darn problem. I guess there is plenty of blame to go around. Pity!!
Caco
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 123
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:53 am

Post by Caco »

"Shure has changed all our lives whether you live on the Border or not. "

And not for the better. We know it Iowa


"I don't know who to blame. Is it the folks who grow it? The folks who process it? The folks who transport it? The folks who bring it into this country? or my own countrymen buy it, use it and create the whole darn problem. I guess there is plenty of blame to go around. Pity!!"

Blame those who think they don't have to inforce the law because it's the way it alwys was or it would cost some bussines etc.


Whats the fastest way to learn spanish without moving-Just might be neccessary for understanding campaine speechs in the future :(
Dave
Charles
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2004
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:29 pm
Location: Deep South Texas

Post by Charles »

Old Time Hunter... I suspect the pronoun "our" is rather broad. I was refering to those of us along the border. Our history, present and future are locked together with "our sister republic" to the South. The American Eagle and the Mexican Eagle, make overlaping circle in the sky.

I know that sounds strange to "real Americans" , but that is just the way of it.
homefront
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 771
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:01 pm
Location: Perkiomenville, Pa

Post by homefront »

Charles,

Thank you for this post. I know nothing of the border and less about Mexico, and I appreciate your perspective.
Bill Jordan was an impressive man, by all accounts. You got to shoot with him, more than once. How cool! :D
mescalero1
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 4923
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:08 am
Location: Arizona headed for New Mexico

Post by mescalero1 »

Charles,
Your border experiences parallel mine.
He & myself will tell you of a time when the border was a line on a map.
Those of us who lived there paid no attention to it, and if you were a gentleman of any nationality,you had no trouble at all.
Had many a fine meal in Mexico
Ate my first avacado at Old Fred's in Juarez.
I never did it, because I never saw the sense in it; but was along on many hunting trips along the levee and the Rio Grande and yes you could legally hunt there back then.
User avatar
Old Time Hunter
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2388
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 11:18 am
Location: Wisconsin

Post by Old Time Hunter »

Charles, I still can not grasp the feeling...much more like revolting when I try to make a kinship to south of the Border. Yet, I feel a kinship to my brethern, our neighbors to the north. Notice the individual connotation that does not allude to a common kinship or inclusion of those that might not feel the same way.

My culture is pretty much the way I like it....in my country. I disdain invaders forcing their culture on me. Irrevelant as to what happened in 1836, or 1847, or whatever. Texas chose to be part of the USA, along with the presumed culture of the USA. You can not tell me that Sam Houston fought to speak English as a "second" language. I believe he fought to make it the "first" language. Maybe I'm wrong.
mescalero1
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 4923
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:08 am
Location: Arizona headed for New Mexico

Post by mescalero1 »

Old Time Hunter,
I think you missed the point, there is no first and second language.
We just slip back & forth between the two for whatever is expediant.
The second & third generation U.S. citizins of Mexican descent are as far removed from that as any of the rest of us are.
It is not unusual to meet a person with a Mexican name who does not speak a lick of Spanish, it was simply not spoken in his household.
Charles
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2004
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:29 pm
Location: Deep South Texas

Post by Charles »

Old Time Hunter... Don't spend any time trying to ponder it. It is just a matter of personal experience. I feel no kinship to the folks in Canada as I have very little experience with them. We have quite a few spending the winter in our part of the world and they seem like fine folks, but still I don't feel any kinship with them. I will tell you this about them.. They are much freer with their money than the average US.. Snow Bird from the US midwest. We like em allot for that reason. They help keep the Valley green.

I think I am a reasonable student of Texas History and Sam Houston and the Texas Revolution had nothing to do with language. HIs Vice-President of the Republic was a Mexican. Texans and Tejanos has done rather well here in Texas for a very, very long time.
Jeff Pitts
Levergunner 1.0
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:10 pm

Post by Jeff Pitts »

Very interesting to hear the border news from someone living it, Charles. I appreciate your take on things.

I for one would like to hear you give us an 'up to date' every so often.

Jeff
Charles
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2004
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:29 pm
Location: Deep South Texas

Post by Charles »

Mescalero.. You post reminde me of a guy who works for me. His name is Ysidro Longoria and was raised on a ranch near Victoria Texas. He grew up speaking no Spanish. He joined the Marine Corp right out of highschool in 1969. He was not much of a student of current events and didn't even know there was a war in Viet Nam until he got to Boot Camp.

I almost roll on the floor when he tells me about the moment it dawned on him the country was at war. Long story short, he spent 11 years in the "Corp" including three combat tours in Viet Nam where he ran an M-60. He kept going back, because he used his combat pay to buy a home for his mother. He collected three purple hearts along the way including a through and through wound in his leg from an SKS or AK47.

He didn't try to learn Spanish until he was a grown man. We have our little Spanish teaching sessions and I joke, I didn't hire on to teach a Mexican to speak Spanish. I have an RN who works for me whose last name if Rivas and she is in on the sessions.

He is a pretty good student. He is one fine fellow, but Agent Orange is starting to take it's toll on him. Even so, he is the best darn BBQ chief in captivity.
mescalero1
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 4923
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:08 am
Location: Arizona headed for New Mexico

Post by mescalero1 »

Charles,
You got it,we both know guys like that; migthty fine people
pharmseller
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1005
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Willamette Valley, OR, USA

Post by pharmseller »

Charles said
"I do long for the old days on the border. It was wild and wooly on the Mexican side, but nobody bothered you if you minded your own business. Old Juan N. Guerra keep good order like a good crime boss does. He didn't pray on the Americans was it was bad for business. He kept his "pistoleros" in line and they only made war on their own kind. He taught me how to tell good tiquila from bad tiquila and was always warm and kind to me. I alway knew to show him great defference and respect which showed I knew the rules of conduct."

Charles, help me out on this one. Through your posts you seem to be a good man with integrity. Given that Senor Guerra was a murderer and drug dealer why would you spend time with him? Ted Bundy was warm and kind to some but that did not make much difference to the people he killed. Evil is evil and in my world good men avoid it.
I don't get it.

Quinn
We are determined that before the sun sets on this terrible struggle, our flag will be recognized throughout the world as a symbol of freedom on the one hand, of overwhelming power on the other.

General George C. Marshall, 1942
Charles
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2004
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:29 pm
Location: Deep South Texas

Post by Charles »

Pharmseller... I was a young man 18 or 19 years old. I was as dumb as a box of rocks. I was full of testastaron, adventure and energy. I would take any kind of dare, I lived on the edge and was in general just a kid without sound judgment. I wanted to see how close I could get to the stove without getting burned.

My prorities in life was whisky and women. I found hanging out with gun fighters very exciting. What kid, didn't wish he could walk in to a saloon in Tombstone and sit down with Wyat Earp or Doc Holliday. I was living every shallow teenager's with more balls than brains dream.

Does that sound like anybody you know?

I am now 65 years of age, and view the world very different. There is no way I would go the places I went, hang out with the people I hung out with and in general live the life I lived. However, I don't punish myself for being who I was at the time. I have accepted God's forgivness and have learned to forgive myself.

I don't apoligize for who I am..but part of who I am comes from the experiences of who I was.

I don't long to be who I was. I long for the more peaceful time on the Border when there was a sense of order to things and a fellow could go where he wished without fear of being kidnapped or murdered.

Mexico of old was ruled by corrupt politicians and crime bosses working together. Today, there are no rules and the criminals are much more brutal and there are many freelance thugs. For better or worse Juan N. Guerra make things work.

It was much like the Mafia in "little Italy" a generation ago. They kept order and everybody knew the rules. Evil..yes to be true..but criminal controled order is better than criminal caused chaos.

We might wish Mexico was like small town mid-America..a Mayberry RFD. But is never was and never will be. Sheriff Andy would last as long as spit on a hot griddle. La Frontera has always been a wild and wooly place. It is Tombstone, Dodge City and 1920's Chicago all rolled into one.

All of this is not the way I wish it was, but it is the way it is!

Maybe I am just an old man thinking about the days when he was young and limber and could jump a three rail fence. When I was that age, the worse thing I could think of was being "ordinary". I will admit to still having some of that in me. I look back on my life, the bad and the good and find that for all of that, my life was not ordinary. I have adventured for the Devil and I have adventured for Christ. The latter is much better than the former.

I know this makes no sense to anybody but me......
Last edited by Charles on Sat Jan 12, 2008 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mescalero1
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 4923
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:08 am
Location: Arizona headed for New Mexico

Post by mescalero1 »

Pharmseller,
In La Frontera, banditry is still a semi legitimate profession
mescalero1
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 4923
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:08 am
Location: Arizona headed for New Mexico

Post by mescalero1 »

Charles,
OUCH!! that was a look in the mirror I did not need------------------------------ or maybe I did
mescalero1
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 4923
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:08 am
Location: Arizona headed for New Mexico

Post by mescalero1 »

Charles,
It makes PERFECT sense to me
We must have rode the trails at some time.
Like I said in a previous post, if you knew how to take care of yourself and conducted yourself like a gentleman, you would be ok.
These new thugs are just brutal, it is not the river of our youth
ScottT
Shootist
Posts: 434
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:08 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Post by ScottT »

Boys, I have spent some time with local law enforcement in both Del Rio and Eagle Pass in the past couple of weeks.

Something is up and it ain't good. I think it will probably be concentrated more toward Brownsville, but there is no guarantee.

I have visited Piedras Negras and Acuna over the past month and those are ghost towns where they were formerly busy at night.
mescalero1
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 4923
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:08 am
Location: Arizona headed for New Mexico

Post by mescalero1 »

Ghost towns?
Something is in the air
pharmseller
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1005
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Willamette Valley, OR, USA

Post by pharmseller »

Charles,
I understand completely, and I apologize if my post seemed judgemental. The Lord knows I have holes in me big enough to throw a cat through. I meant no disrespect.
As far as the idea of a different time and a different life we share the same boat. I too have made associations as a younger man that I would not make today.
In youth we learn, in age we understand.

Quinn
We are determined that before the sun sets on this terrible struggle, our flag will be recognized throughout the world as a symbol of freedom on the one hand, of overwhelming power on the other.

General George C. Marshall, 1942
mescalero1
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 4923
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:08 am
Location: Arizona headed for New Mexico

Post by mescalero1 »

Scott T, Those places are always open.
Is the new Prez. really putting the squeeze on them?
I am in Phoenix & don't get the local news/ gossip
ScottT
Shootist
Posts: 434
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:08 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Post by ScottT »

I don't think it has as much to do with the administration as kidnapping fears. Public places seem deserted in the evenings.
mescalero1
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 4923
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:08 am
Location: Arizona headed for New Mexico

Post by mescalero1 »

Those places depend on their night life, must be serious
PPpastordon
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 237
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:37 pm
Location: Indiana

Post by PPpastordon »

Charles;
Thanks for your views. I feel like I know nothing of living on the border, even though I did live there in California in the late 60's and early 70's.

To me, back then, the individuals just seemed like - well - individuals. One of the things I do remember is going to the beach, next to the fence between Tiajuana and the US. People freely walked and drove dune buggies across the border and it seemed nobody noticed or cared. It certainly never really bothered me or anyone I knew.

The world is changing, I guess. I am just not so sure that a whole lot more people are coming to the US from Mexico now than in the past. What might be changing is that they are now moving into more of the country than they were before. That touches more people's sensibilities, I guess?

Anyway, thanks for your views. They are interesting.
Grace and Peace,
Pastordon
Pastordon's Blog
The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know. (1 Cor. 8:2)
2 dogs
Shootist
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:42 pm

Post by 2 dogs »

This is an interesting thread. Certainly, if you are not from down here near the border, your point of view is driven by the news.....

OTOH, if you are from down here, there is really no way to explain it to someone who isnt. I will say I dont disagree with anything Charles has to say about it and he has done a good job with what he did say....
Charles
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2004
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:29 pm
Location: Deep South Texas

Post by Charles »

My culture is pretty much the way I like it....in my country. I disdain invaders forcing their culture on me.


It occured to me that is pretty much the way, Crazy Horse, Sitting Bull, Red Cloud, Chief Joseph, Chochise and Geronimo saw it.
User avatar
Old Time Hunter
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2388
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 11:18 am
Location: Wisconsin

Post by Old Time Hunter »

Well, let me shake the snow from my hair...just getting back from the football game (Packers!).

Charles, can't argue with ya regarding "manifest destiny", guess it is just coming from south of the border this time!

I still think we should not spend on red cent on helping illegal immigrants. Especially allowing them to invade our country. And yes, I do believe the "Mexican" culture of illegal trade and torts is a serious threat to "our" culture here in the USA.
Scott64A
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 465
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:53 pm
Location: NE Georgia

Post by Scott64A »

ursavus.elemensis wrote:Too bad the bulk of our trained military is tied up fighting with unknown enemies of uncertain significance on the other side of the planet. Too bad the first American president in history who came into office having been Governor of Texas and having a first-name relationship with every governor in Mexico has done nothing to improve our relations and handle the law enforcement and border security issue with Mexico. I'm not sure what bothers me more: the wasted opportunities that Bush has let slide by, or the vast amount of my tax money he has poured into his other, non-urgent adventures.
It is only a matter oif time before we need to invade Mexico, with or without their "permission". Kidnapping FBI agents could and should be the trigger, but what forces are we going to do it with? The couple of guys who they have not sent to Iraq?
I have a photo of your "unknown enemies of uncertain significance" in action right here in case you forgot that Islamic fundamentalists WANT TO KILL YOU.
Image

And as for "non-urgent adventures", maybe you can explain how this is non-urgency:
Total number killed in attacks (official figure as of 9/5/02): 2,819

Number of firefighters and paramedics killed: 343

Number of NYPD officers: 23

Number of Port Authority police officers: 37

Number of WTC companies that lost people: 60

Number of employees who died in Tower One: 1,402

Number of employees who died in Tower Two: 614

Number of employees lost at Cantor Fitzgerald: 658

Number of U.S. troops killed in Operation Enduring Freedom: 22

Number of nations whose citizens were killed in attacks: 115

Ratio of men to women who died: 3:1

Age of the greatest number who died: between 35 and 39

Bodies found "intact": 289

Body parts found: 19,858

Number of families who got no remains: 1,717

Estimated units of blood donated to the New York Blood Center: 36,000

Total units of donated blood actually used: 258

Number of people who lost a spouse or partner in the attacks: 1,609

Estimated number of children who lost a parent: 3,051

Percentage of Americans who knew someone hurt or killed in the attacks: 20

FDNY retirements, January–July 2001: 274

FDNY retirements, January–July 2002: 661

Number of firefighters on leave for respiratory problems by January 2002: 300

Number of funerals attended by Rudy Giuliani in 2001: 200

Number of FDNY vehicles destroyed: 98

Tons of debris removed from site: 1,506,124

Days fires continued to burn after the attack: 99

Jobs lost in New York owing to the attacks: 146,100

Days the New York Stock Exchange was closed: 6

Point drop in the Dow Jones industrial average when the NYSE reopened: 684.81

Days after 9/11 that the U.S. began bombing Afghanistan: 26

Total number of hate crimes reported to the Council on American-Islamic Relations nationwide since 9/11: 1,714

Economic loss to New York in month following the attacks: $105 billion

Estimated cost of cleanup: $600 million

Total FEMA money spent on the emergency: $970 million

Estimated amount donated to 9/11 charities: $1.4 billion

Estimated amount of insurance paid worldwide related to 9/11: $40.2 billion

Estimated amount of money needed to overhaul lower-Manhattan subways: $7.5 billion

Amount of money recently granted by U.S. government to overhaul lower-Manhattan subways: $4.55 billion

Estimated amount of money raised for funds dedicated to NYPD and FDNY families: $500 million

Percentage of total charity money raised going to FDNY and NYPD families: 25

Average benefit already received by each FDNY and NYPD widow: $1 million

Percentage increase in law-school applications from 2001 to 2002: 17.9

Percentage increase in Peace Corps applications from 2001 to 2002: 40

Percentage increase in CIA applications from 2001 to 2002: 50

Number of songs Clear Channel Radio considered "inappropriate" to play after 9/11: 150

Number of mentions of 9/11 at the Oscars: 26

Apartments in lower Manhattan eligible for asbestos cleanup: 30,000

Number of apartments whose residents have requested cleanup and testing: 4,110

Number of Americans who changed their 2001 holiday-travel plans from plane to train or car: 1.4 million

Estimated number of New Yorkers suffering from post-traumatic-stress disorder as a result of 9/11: 422,000

Here are people no longer with us from that attack:

Image

You're so quick to throw cheap jabs, but I don't see YOU managing a country after an attack of this magnitude. Save it for the "9-11 was a conspiracy" thread at i-saw-elvis.com

Securing Iraq is the key to keeping another Shiitey fundamentalist government out of power in the Mid-East. Deal with it.

Get it? Shiite?

I thought that was clever.
GANJIRO

Post by GANJIRO »

Charles wrote:I feel no kinship to the folks in Canada as I have very little experience with them. They are much freer with their money than the average US.. Snow Bird from the US midwest.
Right after graduating high school I got hired on a Waikiki Dinner Cruise Ship because I was bilingual (Japanese and English, though at the time I was fluent in Hawaiian but no tourists spoke that so moot point) and I could dance Hula and Tamure (Tahitian), and as I recall we didn't like Canadian tourist coming on board because they NEVER tipped, not a custom among Canucks (no offense meant to my Canadian brothers, this was 30 years ago).
hartman
Levergunner 1.0
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:12 pm

Post by hartman »

Charles,

Thank you for the perspective, very interesting!

Hartman
User avatar
RIHMFIRE
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 7627
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:51 am
Location: Florida

Post by RIHMFIRE »

drug dealers.....kill'em all
"They are like roaches.....if you dont kill'em all whats the point..."

I just heard that quote from Charles Bronson on TV
El Mac
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 483
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:54 pm
Location: Colorado! (i.e., North Texas)

Post by El Mac »

RIHMFIRE wrote:drug dealers.....kill'em all
"They are like roaches.....if you dont kill'em all whats the point..."

I just heard that quote from Charles Bronson on TV
Amen.
ScottT
Shootist
Posts: 434
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:08 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Post by ScottT »

ursavus.elemensis wrote:Too bad the bulk of our trained military is tied up fighting with unknown enemies of uncertain significance on the other side of the planet. Too bad the first American president in history who came into office having been Governor of Texas and having a first-name relationship with every governor in Mexico has done nothing to improve our relations and handle the law enforcement and border security issue with Mexico. I'm not sure what bothers me more: the wasted opportunities that Bush has let slide by, or the vast amount of my tax money he has poured into his other, non-urgent adventures.

It is only a matter oif time before we need to invade Mexico, with or without their "permission". Kidnapping FBI agents could and should be the trigger, but what forces are we going to do it with? The couple of guys who they have not sent to Iraq?
Your unjustifiabl ehate for this man is clouding your judgment.
Post Reply