The 44 Magnum in Perspective

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Idiot
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The 44 Magnum in Perspective

#1 Post by Idiot » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:00 pm

Sometimes I need a reminder or two about handgun cartridges verses rifle cartridges.

Occasionally there rises a debate about which is more powerful the mighty 44 Magnum or the tender 30-30 Winchester? The debate usually rises to a roar and only wains after insults are hurled or the flames of the fire turn to coals covered with smoldering ash. Well I don't have an answer and certainly don't want to reignite and argument. I only want to offer and observation.

Last Friday I wandered the desert in search of rock to shoot; rocks are always in season and easily stalked. Finding a few I shootable rocks I lined them up at 35 yards to see what kind of impact my 44 Magnum and 30-30 Winchester would have on them. My full power 44 Magnum loads hit them with a hard smack, knocked them over, and caused them to fracture. After a couple of hits the fractures would break off and I'd need to find new rocks. The rocks were small, about six inches tall, four inches wide, and three to four inches thick. I liked beating them with the 44 Magnum and was powerfully reassured by the Redhawk's shove against my wrist. Seeing the bottom of the ammo can caused me to move on to the 30-30 Winchester. I set up similar sized rocks at the same distance and began what I thought would be the same process of shooting the rock over and over until it finally came apart. I was pleasantly reminded otherwise. With each pull of the trigger the bullet hit the rock with a load crack and each rock blew apart with its fragments shooting two feet in each direction. No "smack" and push to its back, no repeat shots to break it up - just one shot and complete destruction of the rock.

Every once in a while I need to be reminded that although there are powerful handgun cartridges, they are only handgun cartridges, and most of the most powerful are not in the same power range as some of our "weakest" rifle cartridges. Keeping things in perspective is good thing.

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Re: The 44 Magnum in Perspective

#2 Post by mescalero1 » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:06 pm

Si,
Yo say.

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Re: The 44 Magnum in Perspective

#3 Post by Terry Murbach » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:17 pm

YOU ARE T-TOTALLY CORRECT !!! THERE IS NOTHING THAT USE TO TICKLE ME MORE THAN GUYS WITH 30-30 CONTENDER PISTOLS TELLING EVERYONE WHO'D LISTEN HOW POWERFUL THEIR T/C SINGLE SHOT PISTOL REALLY AND TRULY WAS. THE SAME GUYS THOUGHT A '94 WINCHESTER IN 30-30 WAS ABOUT ONE STEP ABOVE A POPGUN. L O L !!! IT STILL TICKLES ME.
NOW, IF YOU'D LIKE TO SEE A REAL DEMONSTRATION OF PISTOL PERFORMANCE VS RIFLE/CARBINE PERFORMANCE TAKE THAT SAME 44MAG AMMO BACK TO THE SAME ROCK PILE WITH A 44MAG RIFLE/CARBINE AND BUST A FEW MORE ROCKS. YOU WILL BE AMAZED AT THE DIFFERENCE FROM THE PERFORMANCE YOU SAW FROM YOUR REDHAWK 44MAG.
THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR FPS AND THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR BARREL LENGTH TO GET IT.
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Re: The 44 Magnum in Perspective

#4 Post by tman » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:29 pm

44 mag pistols werealways recommended by the gun writers as BIG bear medicine, until the 454 and 475 and 500 became popular. now its a 50 yard small deer gun. these same writers would regal horror stories of maneating bears with anyone stupid enough to shoot one a 30-30 in a rifle. if you hunt anything bigger than a squirrel, get a .500 s&w. be sure to use premium bullets.

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Re: The 44 Magnum in Perspective

#5 Post by Retro » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:35 pm

Yup. It ain't "handgun cartridge" vs "rifle cartridge" it's handgun vs rifle.

If you havn't seen it you have no idea how much more powerful a rifle is, compared to a handgun.

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Re: The 44 Magnum in Perspective

#6 Post by Idiot » Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:29 pm

Terry Murbach wrote:THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR FPS AND THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR BARREL LENGTH TO GET IT.
Amen.
Retro wrote:Yup. It ain't "handgun cartridge" vs "rifle cartridge" it's handgun vs rifle.
If you havn't seen it you have no idea how much more powerful a rifle is, compared to a handgun.
Amen again.

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Re: The 44 Magnum in Perspective

#7 Post by J Miller » Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:55 pm

Idiot it correct about Arizona rocks. Not only are they prolific breeders they can be overtly hostile. Some times you just have to shoot them in self defense. In times like this a handgun of any kind just wont do anything but make them giggle as you tickle them.
You just gotta bust 'em good with a rifle.

A friend of mine and I found a big ole rock crouching on the edge of a wash one time, just waiting to pounce on some unsuspecting passer by.
It took us a few rounds of 30-30 ammo, but we knocked him off the ledge. Of course this rock was the size of a VW beetle.
Small rocks are easy, BIG rocks take a bit of work.

Joe
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Re: The 44 Magnum in Perspective

#8 Post by 76/444 » Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:30 pm

Retro wrote:Yup. It ain't "handgun cartridge" vs "rifle cartridge" it's handgun vs rifle.

If you havn't seen it you have no idea how much more powerful a rifle is, compared to a handgun.

Yah, I got to agree with this. If one wants to compare, at least compare apples to apples.

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Re: The 44 Magnum in Perspective

#9 Post by Idiot » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:05 pm

J Miller wrote:Idiot it correct about Arizona rocks. Not only are they prolific breeders they can be overtly hostile. Some times you just have to shoot them in self defense. In times like this a handgun of any kind just wont do anything but make them giggle as you tickle them.
You just gotta bust 'em good with a rifle.

A friend of mine and I found a big ole rock crouching on the edge of a wash one time, just waiting to pounce on some unsuspecting passer by.
It took us a few rounds of 30-30 ammo, but we knocked him off the ledge. Of course this rock was the size of a VW beetle.
Small rocks are easy, BIG rocks take a bit of work.Joe
Rockin' in the free world! :lol:

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Re: The 44 Magnum in Perspective

#10 Post by jlchucker » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:28 pm

Those Arizona rocks seem to be a lot tougher than the Kalifornia deer that last year some guy posted were immune to the 30-30 caliber. Or was Kalifornia tough deer posting on another website? I don't really keep track of these postings like some do, but never, ever underestimate the 30-30 round fired from a 336 Marlin or 94 Winchester. And the ones shot out of a 788 Remington, I'm told, are purely and simply deadly. That having been said, and everyone's opinions having been read, there'll still be some who would use a 44 mag for "bear protection" but feel that the 30-30 is good forn nothing but field mice.

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Re: The 44 Magnum in Perspective

#11 Post by TedH » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:45 pm

jlchucker wrote: there'll still be some who would use a 44 mag for "bear protection" but feel that the 30-30 is good forn nothing but field mice.
That's because the 30-30 doesnt have that reassuring word "magnum" in it's name. Just to mention the word magnum makes 'em all warm and fuzzy.
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Re: The 44 Magnum in Perspective

#12 Post by J Miller » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:57 pm

TedH wrote:
jlchucker wrote: there'll still be some who would use a 44 mag for "bear protection" but feel that the 30-30 is good forn nothing but field mice.
That's because the 30-30 doesnt have that reassuring word "magnum" in it's name. Just to mention the word magnum makes 'em all warm and fuzzy.
That's because the 30-30 doesn't have that reassuring word "magnum" in it's name. Just to mention the word magnum makes 'em all warm and fuzzy and ditsy headed.

As our population has gotten away from growing and hunting for our own food, we have developed too much time on our hands. So now instead of "doing it ourselves" we live our lives reading things written by others who have too much time on their hands and never "did it themselves".

Umm, did that make any sense??

I bought my first Win 94 in 30WCF way back in '66. Cos I liked it. Not too loud, not too heavy, not too much recoil, accurate, reliable, and fun to use.

I've never killed a thing with any of mine but paper and those vicious Arizona rocks. But I've also never swallowed the pablum put out by some of the gun writers of today.

Keep bustin 'em Idiot. Some day I'll get back out that way and help you some. Got lots of 30-30 loaded and ready.

Joe
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Re: The 44 Magnum in Perspective

#13 Post by Grizz » Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:24 pm

30-30 = 30-06 OFF Steroids

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Re: The 44 Magnum in Perspective

#14 Post by Grizz » Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:26 pm

Grizz wrote:30-30 = 30-06 OFF Steroids
30-06 = 30-30 ON Steroids

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Re: The 44 Magnum in Perspective

#15 Post by 30hrrtt » Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:53 pm

I feel bad now. I used a handgun cartridge to bag my 200# plus buck two days ago in my puny 16" 94 trapper.. I was seriously undergunned. I should have used my Win 94 in 32 special or my Savage 99 in 308. I wasn't even using those heavy hardcast that will take down any game on the planet.

No, I just used a Hornady 240 xtp behind 24 grains of 296. The bullets were even seconds cause I'm cheap. Entering the neck in front of the shoulder and exiting the opposite rear rib, it traveled a mere 27" of body.

I'm glad the other buck that was with it moved on ahead from behind it because I only had one tag.

If I had a chance to take out a buffalo, of all the guns I own, the one I would use would be my 44 mag trapper loaded with my 330 grain hardcasts.

Just putting it in my perspective.

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Re: The 44 Magnum in Perspective

#16 Post by AJMD429 » Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:54 pm

...but isn't the ".30-30 Ackley Improved" really (I won't tell...) the ".30-30 Magnum"...? :lol:
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Re: The 44 Magnum in Perspective

#17 Post by TedH » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:44 pm

AJMD429 wrote:...but isn't the ".30-30 Ackley Improved" really (I won't tell...) the ".30-30 Magnum"...? :lol:

Hmmmm, 30-30 Magnum..........nah, we'd have to figure out how to put a belt on it. :wink:
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Re: The 44 Magnum in Perspective

#18 Post by Bridger » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:52 pm

...............or make it really short.
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Re: The 44 Magnum in Perspective

#19 Post by preventec47 » Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:38 am

Ha HA. I like the sound of 30-30 Magnum

Then how bout the 30-30 Ultra Magnum

We could change the names of the 308 and the 30-06 :-)


But what would the 300 Win Mag become ?

"the 30-30 Super Ultra Magnum"


I am so shocked no one here has posted ft pounds of energy
of the respective guns. Or for that matter, the momentum.
I usually think in terms of guns ultimate power ratings by the
respective recoil power of guns weighing the same identical
weight. That is what I believe in and go by.

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Re: The 44 Magnum in Perspective

#20 Post by Idiot » Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:39 pm

30hrrtt wrote:I feel bad now. I used a handgun cartridge to bag my 200# plus buck two days ago in my puny 16" 94 trapper.. I was seriously undergunned. I should have used my Win 94 in 32 special or my Savage 99 in 308. I wasn't even using those heavy hardcast that will take down any game on the planet.

No, I just used a Hornady 240 xtp behind 24 grains of 296. The bullets were even seconds cause I'm cheap. Entering the neck in front of the shoulder and exiting the opposite rear rib, it traveled a mere 27" of body.

I'm glad the other buck that was with it moved on ahead from behind it because I only had one tag.

If I had a chance to take out a buffalo, of all the guns I own, the one I would use would be my 44 mag trapper loaded with my 330 grain hardcasts.

Just putting it in my perspective.
Please don't feel bad, your 44 Magnum is capable of killing most things that walk. I've killed numerous 800 lb. steers with a 22 long rifle. So, I know your 44 Magnum is certainly adequate, and you've no cause to feel bad or inadequate.

The subject was not about the ability or inability of either cartridge to kill animals.

I will continue to do most of my hunting with 357 and 44 Magnums launched from a six inched barreled handgun - and not feel bad or inadequate at all.

Don McDowell

Re: The 44 Magnum in Perspective

#21 Post by Don McDowell » Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:54 pm

:D Tuff time of the year. Not enough snow to have to be feeding, hunting seasons pretty much over, weather to iffy to go very far from home. :lol: So we come up with "interesting" stuff to think about. :mrgreen:

Just a darn good thing you didn't have a 32 special, now that would of really mashed those rocks...... :o :wink:

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Re: The 44 Magnum in Perspective

#22 Post by Idiot » Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:15 pm

Don McDowell wrote:Just a darn good thing you didn't have a 32 special, now that would of really mashed those rocks...... :o :wink:
I hope to shout. :wink:
At least it was a 75 degree day with not a whisper of wind or cloud in the sky. Just me, some rocks, well oiled guns, and a good supply of ammo. I wish I were there right now.

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Re: The 44 Magnum in Perspective

#23 Post by Don McDowell » Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:24 pm

Yup nothing quite like a relaxing couple hours just making guns go bang , for no other reason than because...... 8)

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Re: The 44 Magnum in Perspective

#24 Post by horsesoldier03 » Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:47 pm

I have both the Marlin 30-30 and a Marlin .44 mag. I have always considered the 30-30 as more gun. It was my first deer rifle. My daughter now uses the .44 mag for her deer rifle. I put a small scope on it that keeps it quick handling. We have never gone out and shot rocks but we love to KILL HORSE APPLES that have fallen off the trees!
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Re: The 44 Magnum in Perspective

#25 Post by stew71 » Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:30 pm

Don McDowell wrote:Yup nothing quite like a relaxing couple hours just making guns go bang , for no other reason than because...... 8)
Amen to that. Last Thanksgiving, I took my brother-in-law out into the Nevada desert and introduced him to the fine art of long range rock carving using an M1 Garand, a Springfield M1A, and an ammo box full of fun. We sat across a ravine and gradually blasted a barrel sized rock to pieces. I knew I'd find something legal to do with that AP. :D :D
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