32-20 pitted bores vs. shooting accuracy

[KirkD]

Gentlemen, I'm looking for the last levergun I'm planning to buy. It has to be a 32-20 and I've decided I'd like it in an original Winchester Model 1873. Bores, can be less than pristine in the '73's. I've got a fair amount of experience shooting out of pitted bores, including sewer pipes, and have found that with some playing around, I can get even sewer pipes to give decent groups at 100 yards. However, I have no experience with pitted smaller bores like the 32-20. I've found a nice '73 32-20, with fine pitting in the bore, with the occasional larger pit.

Question: For those of you with 32-20's that have light pitting in the bore with the occasional larger pit, or with bores that are even worse, how accurate is your rifle with the particular load and bullet you use.

[Kansas Ed]

I had one, couldn't get it to shoot within 2 feet of the bullseye at 50 yards. Moderately pitted bore in a std 3rd model '73. Traded it off. In retrospect, I should have had it lined and made a great shooter out of it. Wish I still had it and I would have just that thing done. Buy it and figure the price of a liner into it.

Ed

[KirkD]

Wow! That doesn't sound good. My back up plan is to put cream of wheat in the case between the powder and bullet. My experience with COW thus far is that it is a miracle worker on accuracy, especially in less than stellar bores. I wonder how COW would work in a 32-20? I'll be using a fairly low velocity of around 1,200 fps with medium speed powder like 2400, 4227, or 4759.

[JerryB]

Kirk, good luck with the 32wcf and by the way what are you doing up this LATE ?? I would still like to send you some of those 115 grains I told you about.

[Kansas Ed]

I tried 2 different bullets, two different powders (2400, IMR4227) and about 5 different loads. Nothing even shot close. So being disgusted at the time with it, packed it off to Tulsa and let some collector have it that wasn't concerned about the bore. Velocities ranged from 1191fps to 1396fps. I mean, if it were me, I would just start by figuring that if it didn't shoot I'd line it, and that way you wouldn't get as disgusted as I did and do something irrational..like trade it off.

Ed

BTW, filler might be the answer here, as my notes indicate that the ES was all over the place. Or maybe a Unique load would have performed better. I've never had issues with the 32 hot loaded in a '92 so maybe it was trying to down load them with the slower powders that did me in.

[jdad]

My experience, with pitted bores of all calibers, is that if the last 1/3rd of the bore, towards the muzzle is in pretty good shape and the crown is not mucked up, it will shoot pretty well.

I just purchased a Winchester 22 short LW (dates to 1886) that has a pretty ugly sewer pipe bore. It shot 6" groups, at 50 feet, with CB Shorts and Target Shorts. I switched to HV Shorts and the groups dropped in half, at 50 yards.

A lot of shooters send their rifles for "invisible" relining, to www.johntaylormachine.com . He does a lot of work for MM93 and I have had 2 rifles worked on. Extremely reasonable, high quality, old school gunsmith. When the rifle is finished he'll send it back, with an invoice, then you send him the payment.

[Tycer]

Mine's pitted. '92

Cast bullet with gas check sized .313" over 8 grains of Lil'Gun. All touching at 50, 4.5" at 135.

Plain based will not shoot. I have not tried heat treated.

[hemiallen]

Good post

I have a sewer bore 1873, and am considering relining it. In the meantime, I just put $ in the mail for a 1894 Marlin 32-20 that is supposed to have a good bore and shoot well.

The 73 using graphite ammo that came with the gun put 2 in 1/2" offhand, leaning on the fence at 25 yards in the backyard. Reset after looking at the 2 holes, and the next 4 went 2" up and right, 3 seemed to be keyholing. Either I lost my hold, or it started fouling. Set it back in the vault for future evaluation off a bench. I hate to reline mine as it is decent blue, excellent wood.

Hoping the marlin shoots, I start loading for it then decide to reline the 73. Very cool looking guns.

I thought Paco and others suggest the 73 is a black powder, 1150 fps max deal? Sounds like a few loads push that a little.... or was that a 92 load?

Allen

Allen

[KirkD]

Kansas Ed: Were any of those bullets with a gas check?

Tycer: Was was the weight of that GC bullet, and do you know the mould maker and number?

JerryB: It sure is awful hard on me not having a 32-20. Sometimes you just do not realize what your favorite calibers are until you don't have it, then it hits you. Same thing happened with the .45-70. I went a few years without one and figure never again. I'd love to try out those bullets you mentioned.

My old 32-20 (a Model 1892 made in 1903) had some minor pitting in the bore, but still shot 1 & 1/2" groups at 50 yards, which is all I'm ever going to be shooting it at, at Woodchucks in the alfalfa field. If it is further, I always sneak up closer.

I may be crazy, but the '73 I'm looking at is a real fine looking gun, completely original, with a lot of faded blue everywhere. Seller says, "The rifling is strong but there is some pitting. The lands have a strong edge and stick up above the grooves. I can see that the rifling is strong right from the chamber. There are a couple pits other than the very fine pitting which is through out."

This '73 is such a classic looker that I'm willing to take the plunge and, if worst comes to worst, get it lined.

[Kansas Ed]

Kirk,
No, I used one cast bullet which was plain based, and one plated bullet (Berry's I think). The only other bullets I had around was my small supply of Remington bullets and they were slated for the '92 only. But as wild as it shot with both of those, I didn't hold out any hope for it.

Ed

[JerryB]

Kirk, I know that you remember all the trouble we went through trying to get cast to shoot. The jacketed bullets with loads you worked up are all real great. The 85 grain XTPHP is a real minute of cat load.I will try to send you some of the cast again, maybe they will go through this time.

[KirkD]

Jerry, the postage will be a lot cheaper if you send them to my US address. Send me an email and I'll email you back the address.

[Tycer]

115 grain GC Lyman 311316

[Sixgun]

Kirk,
If the 1873 does not have a good bore, it will be a headache.
1873's in 32-20 will usually have a .312-.314 groove diameter where 1892's run .311-312. That why a pitted bore in a '92 will sometimes shoot OK.

1873's almost always have crown damage from over cleaning with dirty steel rods and lots of BP of the time. 1892's have better steel.

A 44 calibered gun is more forgiving with pitting than a 32 calibered gun

A 32 calibered gun needs nice rifling with a good crown in order to shoot plain base cast bullets. Sometimes..........sometimes, they will shoot with a gas check bullet if sized correctly.

Many 1873's are headache guns as shooters if they have seen lots of use. Crown damage, pitting, headspace issues, and sloppy linkage are all common with well worn 1873's. It pays to spend the serious money on a nice condition one--then take care of it.

No easy way out--get a so-so one and pay a couple of G's to make it right or pay several G's for a nice one------To me, its a no-brainer.

For me, a long barreled 1892 with a good bore saves lots of aggravation, especially if you plan on sending several hundred pounds of lead down the tube.--------------------Sixgun

[Wind]

Hey there KirkD - I don't know if you intend to use smokeless or black powder, so I won't comment on lube. I had a 32-40 show up on my doorstep recently and shooting a hard cast plain base bullet sized to .322 was a dismal failure. The bore is questionable, no MAJOR pitting, a little rough and gray, but with fair rifling. I decided to try a gas checked hard cast heat treated bullet sized to .324 just for drill. The difference in performance was startling. With the .322 sized bullets, I couldn't get five of ten shots on a 24" square backer board at 50 yards. Here is the group with the first five of the .324's. Bullet selection may overcome some problems with a questionable bore. Then again, maybe not. Hope this helps a little. Best regards. Wind

[KirkD]

Thanks for that interesting input. I may be a bone-headed optimist, but I think I can get that '73 shooting into a 2" circle at 50 yards with some fooling around. I'm going to sleep on it tonight and if I still feel this way in the morning, I'll be ordering the rifle. Here's a photo ...

[JerryB]

Kirk, I sure would be more than happy to send you some of these bullets. I have not been able to get any acurracy out of them yet.

[Ysabel Kid]

She's a beauty Kirk. Good luck, and I'm looking forward to the range reports showing the progress on your new acquisition!

[Kansas Ed]

Kirk,
PM sent.

Ed

[KirkD]

Well men. After a good night's sleep, I've decided not to go for it. The chance that it might not give me the kind of groups I want is too much for me to take, given the money involved. I've sold off three other Winchesters over the past several months to be able to afford a nice, last levergun and I don't want to take the risk on something that might be great, but then again, it might not be great.

[kimwcook]

Kirk, hope you find your last levergun and she turns out to be a dandy.

[w30wcf]

......... My back up plan is to put cream of wheat in the case between the powder and bullet. My experience with COW thus far is that it is a miracle worker on accuracy, especially in less than stellar bores. I wonder how COW would work in a 32-20? I'll be using a fairly low velocity of around 1,200 fps with medium speed powder like 2400, 4227, or 4759.

Kirk,
I would definitely opt for PSB (polyethylene shot buffer) instead of cream of wheat (50% lighter & better sealing qualities). I have no experience with a pitted bore .32 W.C.F. '73 (.32-20 Marlin) but I would certainly think that it would respond as other rifles with pitted bores I have tried PSB in, the absolute worst being an 1889 Marlin .38-40. That rifle belongs to a friend of mine and it's bore in addition to being pitted, actually has rifling missing in spots!!.

Anyway, accuracy with factory jacketed bullet ammunition @ 25 yards was around 5+"! With PSB and a cast bullet it shot some 1" groups. The PSB sealed the gas behind the bullet allowing it to transverse the much less than perfect barrel undisturbed.

Definitely should work the same in the .32 W.C.F. Also, as was previously mentioned, a gas checked bullet might work better than a plain based bullet sans PSB.

Good luck,
w30wcf

[cowboykell]

Another vote for the poly shot buffer. My experience is that it can add to the pressure causing more fps. Also makes undersized bullets shoot well in over sized bores.

[hemiallen]

Interesting decision. That gun seems a little high, but not too far out of line.

So, I'll bite. What is a poly shot buffer? Pellets, poly discs?

Allen

[Sixgun]

Interesting decision. That gun seems a little high, but not too far out of line.

So, I'll bite. What is a poly shot buffer? Pellets, poly discs?

Allen

Shot buffer? I'll be darned if I'm gonna spend my time filling up cases with that stupid stuff. I'll either buy another gun or have the junky one relined.
I can see me now, slowing down my progressive machines to add shot buffer.---something would get smashed real soon ----------Sixgun