Witnessed a crime this morning .

[sparky141]

I had some spare time this morning so I took a ride to my local Cabelas outside of Wheeling WV . As usual the first place I go is the Gun Library and used gun racks .I looked around for a while and seen a 444 Marlin for $329 . It was an old one with the 24 " barrel . It had some bluing wear in front of the lever from carry over the years not too bad though . I wasn't sure I needed it that bad though . So I wandered around the store a while and came back to look again .

There was a guy in there wanting to sell 2 guns to Cabelas . One was a Winchester model70 22-250 with an older Redfield scope in pretty good shape and a Winchester 94 in 44 mag with a 4 power Tasco on it in great shape . The 94 didn't have a mark on it . The first offer was $545 for the pair $335 for the 70 and $210 for the 94 . After some haggling a deal was made for $580 , $355 for the 70 and $225 for the 94 . When the Cabelas guy went to get some paperwork I offered the guy more money for the 94 than he was getting . I thought we struck a deal but then the seller decided to sell it to Cabelas anyways . I ask him what he thought Cabelas was going to list the 94 for ? He said maybe a $100 more than he was getting . I told him they will double their money and then some . I'd guess that 94 will be on the shelf next week for at least $550 . He said he bought it new for $300 . I told him to look in the cases and find the price they get out of used guns in there . They get new retail prices for used guns .

Don't get me wrong I know in business you need to make a profit but WOW . It just amazes me that people give guns away so cheap . I saved a few guns from the clutches of Cabelas but not today .

[TedH]

Well if the fella was dumb enough to accept that kind of money for his guns after being offered more by you, I don't feel sorry for him. With a little effort on his part he could have sold them for a good deal more on Gun Broker or some classified.

[sparky141]

I don't feel sorry for him cause he gave them away . I just amazes me that people are so unaware of the real value of what they have . All he had to do was look around at some prices to see what I was trying to explain . Once he had his money he left the store .

[Hobie]

There are people who don't want to put any effort into it. We have at least one guy (actually, several) who regularly buy and then trade the guns in on other guns. It seems to me that they never shoot them and only do this for a reason to be in the shop. They lose as much as $100 a transaction!

[Blaine]

On the other hand, dumb or not, he stood by a deal that he had made.

[bogus bill]

I am totaly with blain. Once many years ago I and a friend were in a motorcycle shop. A guy came in and tried to sell the owner a BSA. My buddy interrupted and tried to make a deal. I was embarrassed and walked off. Maybe a month later we went back to the shop. Casey the shop owner gave my buddy a royal butt chewing. He told him when you split the rent with me here, ya might try that! I am in Caseys camp. No telling how many good deals I have missed, but my honner and soul is worth far more to me than money, guns and motorcycles, and I love them all.

[Mike D.]

I have ALWAYS made it a point to NEVER interrupt a deal being made between one person and another. The conversation is theirs, and theirs ONLY. Sticking your unwanted nose into a private conversation will only lead to grief. I know, some idiots do it all the time, but their success rate is very slim. Usually, this tactic turns both parties against them. If their deal falls through, then you can move on it. It's often difficult to let this go, but it will work out for the better in the long run. I have seen dealers put the screws to witless sellers, but resisted the temptation to interfere. After the transaction, and when the seller has vacated the premisis, I sometimes will give the dirty "dealer" an earful. Notifying them of their "low-ball" status is a minor satisfaction, but won't stop them from continuing the practice.

The issue of Cabela's making at least 100% on their used guns is another LOOOOONG story. I have dealt with their so called "gun experts" and have been unimpressed with their general knowledge of the vintage arms they are attempting to pass on. One thing they are good at is a long wided BS story about the guns they are promoting. Most of them enbellish the rifle's condition to the point that you believe it to be a as-new gun. Imagine the disappointment when you see this "mint condition" gun that is actually less than 70% overall. I have made some serious offers for a few of their Winchesters, but to no avail. Rather than accept a decent profit of 30%, they would rather hold out for the aforementioned 100%. They "need" to double their money, so the guns rests on the rack for months on end. I don't understand Cabela's rationale, but it is what it is.

[sparky141]

For the record I didn't interupt any conversation with the buyer/ seller . The Cabelas guy was in the back doing something , with the seller in the Gun Library lamenting that he would have like more money for his guns . I thought I would offer the guy a reasonble amount for the 94 . May be in my OP I should have stated that an offer had been made not a deal made, as when the Cabelas guy came back they were still making the deal and then putting it on paper .

I used to be able to get good deals on used guns there up until about 1 to 1 1/2 year ago . The used prices were close to what you would expect to pay for them . Ever since then the prices have went thru the roof , a good 1/3 to 1/2 more than what they are worth . I'm not talking about collector guns either .

[buckeyeshooter]

That particular Cabela's does very rarely have a good deal on a used gun. If you check the used rack outside the gun library they sometimes move old stock there and mark it down to 'normal' price. Then you can twist arms and beg until you get the gun where it needs to be. I agree that in the past you could buy and sell there on a 'reasonable' basis. My guess is they got a new 'gun expert' there who does the prices.

[BwanaDave]

I have bought a few guns from Cabelas and on used stuff they ask top dollar. However they have always negotiated the price down some when I have dealt with them. I also have a couple of Cabelas credit cards, one for business and one for personal expenses. I always use the accumulated points which brings the cost of the gun down, in fact sometimes making it for free.

In regards to selling guns I usually sell to a friend or I put them on consignment. The way I see it the shop has to make it worth their while. I just did this with four hand guns a couple of weeks ago. I took them in and discussed each one with the counter guy. He asked me what I wanted for each and I told him what I thought they were worth and lowered my price by $75-$100 on each. I will actually be making money on three of the four and the shop will also make a fair profit. I have already received a check for two of them and it looks like the others have sold too. To me there is the wasted time and effort of trying to sell them on line or meeting strangers that simply doesn't make it worthwhile to squeeze a few more bucks out of the deal. I like the guys at the local shop and I like supporting them in these tough times. They take the consignment guns to shows and display them in the shop. They are good guys.

Cabelas is a business just like any other. It is really a buyer's market right now due to the economy. They are putting their cash into an illiquid asset which has its risks. Frankly, the guy is lucky they are buying at all.

I buy and sell guns for enjoyment, not to make a buck. I enjoy tinkering with a new gun, loading for it and just learning about it. If a while later I sell it for $100 less than I paid for it it isn't a big deal, I have gotten my moneys worth in fun.

Dave

[hocbj23]

well said,Dave.With the cost of a movie at 18 bucks locally,a few bucks spent at the range with an ole levergun is much more fun to me.I know I occasionally pay a little more for a gun at my local shop,but he knows what I like and will call me first if he gets an interesting piece.hes gotta live too and so do the Cabela guys.bj

[sparky141]

I have sold a few guns for less than I paid but very few . All i'm saying is if you can make money on sale why not .I know that A business needs to make money but the prices they buy used guns for is crazy . I think people go there to sell guns cause the Gun Buyers are suposed to be the "Professionals " and will treat them accordingly . Early last year I saw them buy a Winchester model12 in 16 ga for $600 from an old gent . Everything with this gun was like you just took it out of the factory . It had the box numbered to the gun and hang tags . the box was in great shape so I assume this package to the right person would be worth a good bit of money .

I have nothing against Cabelas but the people selling them have got to be out of their mind . If I'm going to buy or sell something I educate myself on what a fair price would be so I don't get taken advantage of . That guy this morning could have had another 125 bucks in his pocket . I don't know what his finances are but for me that is a days wages .

I frequently watch the used racks there for leverguns that I want . I have seen recently people pay $569 for a used Marlin 1894 44 mag . I tried to get the price reduced and could only get $20 off . the gun had 2 scratches on the wood and the metal was in good condition . It didn't last 2 days on the rack . You could go to the new counter and get one for the same price .

[winchester1886]

My way of looking at it he probably needed the cash real fast, we've all been there.

[1886]

Sparky141, Welcome to the forum. I look forward to more of your posts. Friendly advice, if any establishment catches you trying to to a "side deal" in their store, they will ask you to leave and not come back. I know you were trying to rescue the potential seller but the establishment will not be so understanding. Regards, 1886.

[sparky141]

86 er

Point taken .

[Pisgah]

I am friends with nthe proprietors of the nearest gun 'n' pawn. They make no bones about it -- they tell anyone who comes in sellin a un that they can get more ourt of a private sale, and they make them an offer. Generallly, it is what I would regard as a low offer; then again, I don't have their overhead, and I see many of these buys lying in their guncase for months or years after the deal is made. Money tied up is money that's costing you. I buy a gun and the cost of owning it stays what it is. They buy it and the cost keeps going up as long as they keep it.

One reason I hang out there whenever possible is that when a seller thinks their offer is to low, the shop owners will point at me and say, "See what that guy will give you." If I'm not on the scene, they'll often call me and tell me what's being offered for sale. I have made several sweet deals for myself, while still giving the seller more than the shop would or could have, and both the shop owners and I have been open and aboveboard all the way. I'm happy with the gun, and the seller's happy with the money and the shopowners, who clearly have not tried to screw him.

[Ysabel Kid]

I was in the Cabelas in Richfield (WI) a couple years ago with some time to kill before seeing a customer in the area. I was on my way out when I saw an older gentlemen with about a half a dozen firearms trying to sell them to the gun staff. Among his stuff he had a Colt SAA (first generation) and a Winchester 1892 both in good condition. If I had only had a bit more time I would have stayed to ask him about them, as I am sure Cabelas didn't give him near what they were worth.

Crime indeed...

[Old Savage]

That's business.

[Ysabel Kid]

That's business.

I agree. I know they need to make money. Just wish I could have seen him earlier. He would have made more money and I would have got a great deal. Everyone would have been happy - except Cabelas!

[El Chivo]

100% is standard retail markup, nothing criminal about it. Get eyeglasses from your optometrist, markup is more like 300% or more.

I would be leery of selling a gun directly to a stranger, this way it's above board. A lot of people sell what they don't use anymore to move on and put it back into circulation and aren't worrying about squeezing every dollar out of it.

I think if you're in their store you respect their system.

[oldgerboy]

Sparky,
That's how I got my Savage 99C in .284. The guy was in Gander Mtn but had not struck a deal. They were generously offering him $250 for it.

[adirondakjack]

On the other hand, dumb or not, he stood by a deal that he had made.

Exactly. He made a deal, and didn't back out because somebody was eavesdropping, looking to "queer the deal'. ya wanna buy guns cheap? Build ya a store, get an FFL, pay insurance, utilities, advertize, etc and then tell me how much MORE yer gonna pay for used iron. Cabelas isn't a theme park or gun museum funded by the government. It's a business, and they have a right to cover their exenses and actually turn a profit. They also have a right to throw out folks trying to queer deals by leaning into negotiations.....

Now it woulda been perfectly legit to wait and see. If they failed to come to terms, THEN ask the guy if you could look at his gun, maybe walk outside and discuss it further. But to try and "scarf" a deal from under the nose of the folks who pay the rent is bad bidness. It's alsmost as bad as hitting on a buddy's wife in his own house.....

the ONLY proper course when witnessing other negotiating is to shut yer trap and wait yer turn.

(Sorry if I was rough, but as a businessman, this grates on me. I'm reminded of a time I was in a local bar and a feller ordered a beer. "Two bucks" says the bartender. "Two dollars! Why I can buy a sixpack for $3 at the grocery store." The bartender said "Grand Union is two blocks over, ya better hurry, they close at 10". AND WALKED AWAY. The guy didn't get a beer, and left in a huff.

[marlinman93]

100% is an obscene mark up on a used gun. Yes, the shop has overhead, and yes they need to make money, b ut most shops around here make a pretty std. 50% mark up. Occasionally if you're a regular customer they will make less mark up, if you buy it soon after they got it.
I agree that you should never interfere with a shop buying or selling a gun without being asked, but I see no problem advising a seller if the deal isn't done and the buyer is not present. If the seller doesn't heed the advice, then that's fine too.

[bogus bill]

I have never owned or worked in a gunshop. With current production guns I assume markup to be aproximently 30%? Lets say someone brings in a brand new in the box rifle that is still in production and wants to sell it to the shop owner. If he buys that gun he has to put it on his books, and cant sell it as "new". Right then and there takeing into account his overhead he would be stupid to buy a gun that he couldnt make a good 50% on. Who would buy a current production rifle that was "used", even if it looked new when a brand new one is alongside it for the same price?
Now out of production classic guns are another matter. While I never worked or owned a gun store, as a small boy I was raised in a old country general store and remember what mom put up with. (Actualy, she didnt put up with much and would have kicked a person that tried to horn in a deal like that across the street.) My honner is worth a lot more than scoreing a deal.

[Hillbilly]

I have big ears... and aint shy about following a deal out the door if the shop doesnt take it.

Fair is fair.

[Travis Morgan]

I am totaly with blain. Once many years ago I and a friend were in a motorcycle shop. A guy came in and tried to sell the owner a BSA. My buddy interrupted and tried to make a deal. I was embarrassed and walked off. Maybe a month later we went back to the shop. Casey the shop owner gave my buddy a royal butt chewing. He told him when you split the rent with me here, ya might try that! I am in Caseys camp. No telling how many good deals I have missed, but my honner and soul is worth far more to me than money, guns and motorcycles, and I love them all.

I'm with the owner on that, but I was in Gander Mountain once, and quietly let a guy know how bad he was getting screwed, so he offered his guns to me for the price they offered him. I darn near wrecked the car getting to the bank! I only took one of the lot, and felt a little guilty at that. I coulda had a brand new (new manufacture) S&W Schofield in .45 Colt for $400! As it was, I took a top eject mint condition trapper for $245. They didn't get too upset, since I was next in line to give them $900!

[cas]

"They get new retail prices for used guns ."

I've been wanting a Benelli M2 shotgun for a while, to use in 3 Gun. I was in Cabela's last weekend and saw one in the used rack. It looked like it might be an unfired gun, but there was a big nick/chunk in the receiver and the barrel was all rusty. I thought "Jackpot! I'll wire brush the barrel, spray paint it black and have my beater." Then I looked at the price tag... $1095 Hmmm... I walked over to the new ones and read the price tag... $1125

$30 off. Woopie! (if you've ever had the misfortune of pricing a new barrel from Benelli you'll know how pathetic that is)

[horsesoldier03]

I was in a pawn shop once when a guy was trying to pawn two guns off. Granted neither of them were the greatest, a 96 Mauser in 7x57 and a Single Shot 12 ga. The pawn shop owner gave him IMO an insulting offer of $50 for both guns. (NOT EACH) Naturally the man refused. I made my way between him and the door and struck conversation on the way out and told him I was intrested. I got the 96 Mauser for $75. The shop owner noticed we were completing a transaction in his parking lot and got pretty upset. I told him in the future he may want to think about making a more reasonable offer.

[Travis Morgan]

A buddy of mine owns a pawn shop, and he routinely RAPES people on gun deals. I mean so bad I wanna kick his butt over it. BUT, OTOH, I keep buying premium knives from him for about 5% of their retail. They're used, but not messed up any worse than if I'd already carried them for a little while. I've pulled some smokin' deals outta his shop. I WILL NOT interfere in a deal there. That's part of why I get such good deals.

[madman4570]

Not to cut the LARGE places down like a Cabelas/Bass Pro etc. but I tend to stick with the small mom & pop gun dealer shops.I ones I deal with always give me a VERY fair price for what they put into it with their time.The bigger shops they either seem like the sales people really dont know much about guns/ammo or maybe they do not care.The dealer I usually use goes down to southern pa every Tuesday and can get about anything I need very reasonable,if its there to be got!