O/T M1 Garand

[JNG]

Sure ain't a lever, but I always wanted one. I never had the funds to pay $1200.00 for a Fulton or Springfield. I only saw rewelds at the gunshow. My club that I joined now allows me to get a CMP M1.
You folks are a wealth of knowledge. I live 160 miles from Camp Perry and will be going there as soon as my last O/T is posted on my check. Questions?
What should I look for when picking out my rifle?
When I reload which I will, what do you guys like in your pills?
There are a ton of books out there, which ones do you think has the best knowledge?
Anything other info you could think of please pass it on.

Happy 4th

Joe

[madman4570]

Joe,
Unless things have changed,you dont get to choose.You will receive the rifle they send you in its foil wrapping.I was lucky mine was in great shape and was all Springfield Armory and the stock was flawless.Yours could be Winchester/H&R etc. its all good.
As for reloading I suggest you stick to 150 to 180 grain bullets, and use a powder like 4895 (Hodgdon or IMR) or 4064. Us the recommended starting load in your manual, and you'll be all right.But for a while, why dont you first just use the m2 ball ammo from cmp?
This will give you a good baseline on how your gun shoots.This is the most common ammo most of the guys shoot at the M1 shoots!
For more than 50 years it's been the standard rule to use no bullet heavier than 180gr AND a powder no faster than IMR3031 and no slower than IMR4320.As to a good book?Scott Duff has some good books on the M1 (The M1 Garand owners Guide)(the M1 Garand Serial Numbers and Data Sheets)
Best is the owners manual which comes with your gun(actually read and remember it) Good Luck,That gun is a treasure and treat it as such!

[donw]

maybe not exactly 'on topic' about the M1 garand, but...it's a fine rifle.

i trained with the M1 in the early 60's; it NEVER jammed, never failed to go "BANG" when the trigger was pulled, was accurate (as far as a battle rifle goes), was easy to recharge with ammo (in spite of what was said about the infamous "M1 thumb") and be sure to maintain your cheek weld for better accuracy.

you don't have to worry about the bullet not having enough "OOOOOMPH" at 500 yards, and more, to take down the target...after all...it is a 30-06.

i'm amazed that our illustrious congress and state legislatures have not banned them as they are a VERY effective rifle and are of the, now, dreaded/feared/loathed by legislators, semi-automatic design...oh, wait...it doesn't have a 'detachable magazine with a "pistol" grip'...(the pistol grip with a detachable magazine does, after all...make it evil...)

[Ysabel Kid]

As Patton said, the greatest battle rifle ever. Congratulations - you are going to love it.

[madman4570]

Ok,Joe here is the accurate butt kicking loads! Check out the load on the bottom of this article it is identical to what I use
If you can get 1"-1.5" groups on the bench and can DO YOUR PART off bench your in the running kid! (GOOD LUCK!)
http://web.archive.org/web/200006200557 ... M1load.htm

[Noah Zark]

Joe:

What Madman says pertains to a gun that you order from the CMP.

Since you are driving to the North Store at Camp Perry, you will see M1 Rifles and M1 Carbines in racks and you can select any of them that you wish. The number and quality changes with time, but the beauty of going to either the NS or SS (Anniston, AL) is that you CAN pick your rifle yourself or with help from staff or other customers.

Nine months ago they had a great selection of Service Grade M1 Garands and I picked up a couple that had Muzzle Wear of "0" and Throat Erosion between "1" and "2". These were essentially "new" guns, postwar manufacture by Springfield Armory and Harrington and Richardson. Lately, the North Store has had only Field Grade Garands, with more wear to the metal and more dings and dents.

The North Store staff has MW and TE gauges you can borrow by leaving your DL at the counter. They will help you select your weapon, and usually there are a number of "regular" customers from nearby in OH or MI that are more than willing to help a first timer get a nice one.

IMO, if you are looking for a shooter, then consider the Field Grades or Service Grades if they have them. Then look for the cleanest bore with the best (lowest) MW number. Usually the lower the better, but generally in my experience MW values below 3 or even 4 are decent shooters. I have a postwar H&R that has a 3.5 MW and it outshoots a 5.7 million (S/N range) postwar Springfield with its original barrel with a MW of just under 0.5.

IMO, MW is more important than Throat Erosion. That same H&R has a TE of 4. The 5.7 million Springfield has a TE of 2.

Point is, get one with the best metal you can.

Other things to check:

Make sure the sight knobs are not loose, and have some resistance when they are turned and "click". Easy-turning knobs with not much "click" indicate a possible worn sight detent in the receiver, and sights that will "walk" when the gun is fired.

Make sure the rear sight leaf isn't wobbly. There should be no or VERY little movement of the leaf.

The countermen at the NS will have headspace gages and can check HS for you. They can also check the wear on the op rod tab at the rear end of the op rod.

Don't worry about finish wear, because there are guys that do OUTSTANDING repark jobs for $75 to $150. If you want it to look "new" you can have it. If you want the worn look of a battle-experienced Garand, you can have it.

Don't worry about the stock having minor dings and dents. They can be steamed out (NEVER SANDED!), or you can send the stock to guys that de-dent and refinish for around $75 and do a fantastic job.


IF YOU ARE A COLLECTOR, then consider the "Correct Grade" Garands, which the NS sometimes has. The price is like $900 or $995. All parts will "match" in that they will be from the same manufacturer, but not necessarily from the right moment in time. These CG Garands do not necessarily have good MW and TE numbers, but usually do. So for 2X the $$$ of a Field Grade, you can have a pretty decent "matching" specimen. Personally, I would find the FG with the best bore and numbers and then spend a little TLC on the stock and metal, and end up with a great looking shooter for less than $750, and you can do it over time as the budget permits. I say this because you MUST buy some Greek 30-06 ammo while there, it's about $90 a can now, with a 10-can limit. DO NOT just buy one or two cans and think you'll be OK. This is good reloadable brass, and even at nearly $90 per can on clips (192 rds) or nearly $100 per can in boxes (240 rds) the Greek ammo is a great deal. Make sure you have the $$$ for ammo.

Join the CMP forum at ODCMP.com and visit the "North Store" and "M1 Garand" boards. The NS board will have "store reports" weekly by customers, listing what's there and what's not.

Also note that the NS is open only Wed through Sat, so plan your trip accordingly.

When you turn off of US 2 west of Port Clinton, go between the two stone "lighthouses" and continue until you come to the first stop sign. Turn obliquely left, cross the tracks, and follow the road back parallel to the track to a tan metal warehouse building, that's the NS. There is no guardhouse at the first stop sign anymore; just turn left at the first stop.

HTH,

Noah

[madman4570]

Thanks Noah,
I missed that part he is actually "visiting" Camp Perry!
You are right on the money! See ya

[AJMD429]

Now compared to many on this forum, I'm a dummy on Garands, so this is my opinion based on having owned a few over the years, and not based on historic/collectible factors, but just wanting a good, durable 'shooter' that is a piece of American history, but not necessarily one that is a specific maker or vintage.

I will say that when refinished, or the newly-made ones, they are not only functional, but BEAUTIFUL guns.

My CMP one was so bad I think it was really a 8mm-06 wildcat but seriously the muzzle had about an 89 degree crown that went in maybe 15 inches!

BUT . . . I had it rebarreled with a Douglas .308 barrel ($120 at the time), glass-bedded, and NM sights ($40-50 at the time), and it is a tack-driver.

I think that the receiver is the only 'critical' part since you can replace everything else fairly easily and fairly inexpensively (compared to getting a $1,200 new one) yourself. If the barrel is in good shape, then none of the other parts require a gunsmith, and all are pretty available.

[2ndovc]

My M1 would be the last auto loader that I'd let go of..

Mine's a Winchester that I picked up after the big shipments back
from South Korea in the mid 90's. Has a '52 Springfield barrel on it and it's a real
tack driver.

Don't pass up a chance to shoot at Camo Perry. It's a Blast!!

Here's mine with an early WWII Ithica 1911a1.



jb

[piller]

Didn't the military during WWII use IMR4350 or H4350 and a 168 grain bullet in the Garand? I seem to remember reading that the powder was 4350. Anybody know for sure?

[Rusty]

Noah,
That was the best and most detailed information I think I've ever seen on picking an M1. At times I think about getting one of those ugly black rifles, then I think back to the range time I spent with an M1. It ain't gonna happen. Lets see... poodle popper or real gun?

[morgan in nm]

I think that the receiver is the only 'critical' part since you can replace everything else fairly easily and fairly inexpensively (compared to getting a $1,200 new one) yourself. If the barrel is in good shape, then none of the other parts require a gunsmith, and all are pretty available.

True in most cases but I keep a good supply of internals around because some parts will cause a garand to act up. I usually isolate the problem and change it out with another from my stock and save the one I replaced as it may work in another garand.

[AJMD429]

Check out Fulton Armory for some information and many supplies and so on.

http://www.fulton-armory.com/M1-Services.htm

[Missouri Mule]

"Didn't the military during WWII use IMR4350 or H4350 and a 168 grain bullet in the Garand? I seem to remember reading that the powder was 4350. Anybody know for sure?"

I believe that it was 4895. That was the surplus powder that Hogdgens started with. I think that it was 4895 with the 150 to 172 gr. ball.

[JerryB]

I bought my M1 in 1987, went through basic in 1958 and fell in love with the M1.

[SFRanger7GP]

Years ago I went down south to train advanced target interdiction. During the site survey, the armorer apologized for only having "antique" weapons that had been stashed away over the years. He explained they were like new as no one had any training to use them. He opened a huge crate and in it were a couple dozen M1D Garands still in their original crates with all accessories. He told me they unpacked them every year for cleaning and inventory. What a treasure.

I ordered 2 pallets of NM Ball ammo and we put them rifles through the works. The scopes didn't old up too well so we replaced them with 6X Leupolds. Later, when they finally received their tricked out bolt guns, the Garands were converted back to irons and they used them to train advanced marksmanship. What an impressive battle rifle.

[Idahoser]

Noah is wise. I'd only like to add that this whole ridiculous idea that it's "difficult" to get a CMP rifle just baffles me. CIVILIAN MARKSMANSHIP shouldn't make you think you need some special qualification, but too many people think they don't qualify.

You DO need to be a member of a club that is an "Affiliated Club" but that can be the GCA and you can join them online for real cheap, it's not something that requires you to live in a particular place or spend gobs of money.

You DO have to prove you can shoot fairly decently. That shouldn't scare anybody here! A basic orientation with a good rifle, and any 10 year old could qualify. This involves someone at your local range signing a statement that they observed you (so you don't have somebody shoot for you) and that you were safe and met (easy) requirements on target. All of this is spelled out on their site, odcmp.org I think it is.

EVERYBODY ought to have a Garand. There's big business in people getting their full allowed number every year and then reselling them at the gun shows. There's no deal anywhere to beat it. Sure, there's (debatable) wisdom in having the 'current' issued poodleshooter in the house, but that doesn't mean you can't have one of these first. Anything a M1A would do, this will do, and for a lot of folks it's better than the M1A. Definitely cheaper to buy and to feed.

[Noah Zark]

Noah is wise.

Idahoser is an excellent judge of character.


Idahoser makes a very good point that I cannot stress emphatically enough:

I'd only like to add that this whole ridiculous idea that it's "difficult" to get a CMP rifle just baffles me. CIVILIAN MARKSMANSHIP shouldn't make you think you need some special qualification, but too many people think they don't qualify . . .

EVERYBODY ought to have a Garand . . . Definitely cheaper to buy and to feed.

It is NOT difficult to join the Garand Collectors Association for $25 and meet the other requirements. You do NOT need to shoot competitively! If you have a C&R license, or a DD214, or are a LEO, or have a Concealed Carry Permit ("License to Carry Firearms" in PA), you do not need to have someone sign off on the range safety form; any one of those documents will do, in addition to your birth certificate or passport, and completion of a couple forms to be notarized. If you go to either the North or South Stores in person, you can join the GCA onsite, and they will notarize your forms there as well for no charge.

DON'T pay Gunbroker or gun show prices for an M1 Rifle or M1 Carbine. Pull your paperwork together and send it in, or make the trip to either store. Bring lots of $$$, and on the drive home you will be wondering why you dragged your feet all these years . . .

Noah