Value ? 1894 TD 1/2 Round-1/2 Oct Elsewhere

[CBinNH]

This gent is looking for some help establishing what he has. W/pics. Any opinions?
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=99185

[kimwcook]

Nice looking '94. Would like to keep informed on the price and if and when he posts it for sale.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

Wow, that is a nice one. Hopefully, it will letter for the buyer.

[usrifle]

I'm the guy that posted that 1894, and "thank you" to CBinNH for posting the link.
I'm still trying to get info on it, i suppose i should have the owner try to get a letter for it.
I appreciate any info you have to offer, thanks for any help.
Here's the pics...
usrifle

[CBinNH]

You're welcome usrifle. That is an interesting rifle. I was looking at the Cody Museum website recently. If your friend keeps coming up with collectable rifles, a membership might be worthwhile. Alot of the dues are tax deductable & you can get up to 40 free email record checks a year.

[kimwcook]

Welcome to the forum usrifle. You'd be welcome without a levergun, but if you keep bringing rifles like this around...you'll be a celeb.

[Griff]

Value depends on where you're located... somewhat. I hate pricing or placing a value on stuff... and it's doubly hard for me when it's a gun that I would sell if it were mine. And if I were looking at it to buy... well... let's just say I'm a cheap-skate! I only have 1 mdl 1894/94 Winnie that I've paid over $650 for... and it were a NEED THAT ONE, thing! Which is probably why I don't have a TD!

Given those are really small pics, assuming that's patina, not rust I'm seein'; and also assuming that I AM seeing a 5-digit ser. #... I'd say around $2,500+; (and assuming no issues internally with pits or other negatives, they'd drop that # dramatically). How much plus depends on how tight the action and TD assy's are, how good the bore is and what the letter info contains.

Part of that # is allowing for it being located in an area where collectable Winchester 94s are not uncommon, but good ones are relatively rare. In some parts of the country rifles such as that have been seen for as little as $350... I know, I missed one 8 or 9 years ago 'cause I just didn't have the cash and the better half doesn't let me travel with a check... let alone several.

usrifle: Welcome to the Forum. And thanks for including pics in your 1st post... even if they were small!

[71fan]

Welcome to the forum.

Nice rifle! Most of us here, me included, would love to have that old shooter in our safe.

A few detractions: the finish on the receiver requires closer inspection, but it appears it may have been cleaned and had a bit of old cold blue on it. The very last pic makes me think the receiver may have been cleaned long ago (the serial is light in places, the takedown ring doesn' t match up perfectly, and the lines aren't as crisp as usual). The chip in in the wood at the upper tang is not too big a deal. The barrel marks are a big detractor, IMO, but I don't think they are from a removal. They don't seem to be in any sort of pattern. Strange. Having said all that, there's nothing like in-person inspection and I could be totally off base here.

The good stuff: The wood hasn't been messed with. Lots of blue on the barrel. Relatively unmessed with overall.

The really good stuff: Antique serial with two special order features - definitely get a Cody records search prior to selling.

Without the 1/2 oct, TD and the early serial number, that would be a $1,000 rifle at most. I'd say those three items add anywhere from 50 to 100% to that. I'll throw my hat in the ring for $1,500 +/- 200, assuming it letters correctly. But I'd look real close at the reciever and barrel condition before jumping in.

Good luck to your friend. Hopefully things get better and he can keep this fine Winchester.

[longarm4146]

US rifle, i'm leaning towards agreeing with 71 fan on this one although I get there somewhat differently. I'm not sure that the wood hasn't been refinished...when u look at the closeup of the tang sight you can see that the wood is not proud to the metal at the wrist...not a deal breaker, but would lend creedence to the possibility that other parts of the rifle (receiver espicially) may have been re-finished at some time. Still not sure about the marks on the barrel near the receiver. I have a takedown in just about the same condition, with the same tang sight,is a 1899-1900 gun, so not antique but is a more desirable 38-55 and I would put its value in the 1500-1800 range depending on how motivated the buyer is. thats based on my shopping gun shows and auction sights.I shoot mine alot as SASS long range matches and get a lot of really positive comments about using an original 110 yr old rifle to beat out some of the guys with new or modern rifles. also i'm basing this on the premise that the bore is at least in decent (6 or 7 out of 10) and the rest of the mechanics are solid. A nice rifle that anyone should be proud to own..

[Mike D.]

The wood has been sanded. If you look closely to the fit around the tang, you will see that the metal is above the wood. Any wood that left New Haven would've been slightly proud of the metal in all respects. That '94 is not an 'untouched" gun by any means, and I'm sure that a 'hands on" inspection would bear this out. I have little interest in 1894s, per se. and none in this example, but have examined many of them over the years. Also, without a personal examination, it is not obvious to me that any cold blue has been added to this gun. The metal shows the effects of some cleaning an well as the obvious wrench marrs on the barrel. These detrimental, "shade tree gunsmith" tool marks are all too common on older guns, Those, along with ruined screws, only serve to reduce the desireability of a gun to a lesser level.

[longarm4146]

I would try to letter gun. One of the flaydermans books i have in front of me states that the 1894 patent date wasn't added to barrel markings till after the 100,000 s/n range. This may be erroneous but it is in print and therefore worht checking out thoroughly. good luck in making a decision....

[71fan]

The wood has been sanded. If you look closely to the fit around the tang, you will see that the metal is above the wood.....Also, without a personal examination, it is not obvious to me that any cold blue has been added to this gun. The metal shows the effects of some cleaning....

Yep. I missed that pic, and from teh other pics it looked good. The wood has been slightly sanded (but well done compared to most jobs you see). The cold blue remark is based on the cleaned appearance of the receiver and the grayish mottled color on the left side (third picture). It is purely a guess / hunch, based on similar things I've seen in the past. But like I said, it was only a hunch and certainly warrants personal inspection.

I still like the rifle and there's a sweet price where most folks would still bite on this one, albeit lower than I originally projected.

[Griff]

Well, 71fan's comments made me go and look at the full-size pics... yep... I was MUCH too generous on my first estimate. Lazy me... but my connection was so slow getting the pics downloaded, I just gave up.

[Mike D.]

It is all but impossible to accurately grade a gun from photos alone. There are too many variables and nuances not always evident in picture format. IMO, this gun is not in anywhere near 60% condition, if the photos are used only as judgement. I looked long and hard at each one and to be fair, the gun appears to be in about 40% of original factory condition. At first glance, someone would say that it is better shape than that, but being truly subjective takes a lot of eyeballing. The "cleaned" wood, marred barrel, and mottled receiver are all indicators of someone imparting their own "personal touches" to the gun, and serve to lessen it's value as a collector. It would still make a fair enough shooter if the price was in accord to it's actual condition. I still have not heard what he is asking for it.