Winchester 94 questions

[hemiallen]

Sorry for asking so many questions. I just got away from buying bolt action rifles by picking up a BLR 358, and realized I wanted an old gun to make use of my Curio and Relic license, which saves Californians a few boxes of ammo $....

The Winchester I have in my posession is a 1920 dated, half octagon, full tube gun with a tall brass beaded blade front, fold down middle w/ diamond, and side mounted Marble? ( sorry, probably wrong brand) slide adjustable peep mounted to the left side of the action. It has a date of 1895 in it. The left side also has all but one screw head shaved flat so it can slide, one screw has a slot for clearance.

The gun has been reblued, I believe, as the lever and trigger are blue and not case colored. ? The wp circle on the action is faded or a light stamp, compared to the deeper stamp on the barrel. The more I clean the barrel, the more I am 99% sure it is newer than the gun. Winchester lettering and stamp very sharp. But, the tube has 2 spots where past pitting wasn't removed, hence the reblue belief. Crescent butt is also blue, and all colors match, but not a deep blue like I saw back in the 60's. Flats on barrel are flat, no rolled corners from buffing???....

So am I probably right that the lever should be color case hardened?

Is the side peep an option or an aftermarket, and does it add or detract vs a tang peep sight, which I like better for looks. And, can I replace the shaved side screws, which I suspect should be countersunk, maybe they flattened the side to remove counterboring.

The trigger is the worst 1894 I have felt. Any information on how to reduce it? I have "adjusted" ruger 77 triggers and done well, so stoning/ surface prep is a possibility.

I have downloaded assembly drawings and will , with a brownell's screwdriver kit and due diligance to keeping the screws unbuggered like they are now, and do some inspecting this weekend.

Thank you

Allen

[Modoc ED]

........which saves Californians a few boxes of ammo $....

Don't get it. What do you mean?

[Hobie]

Well, a photo of the sight as well as the rest of it would help. However, I'm thinking the receiver mounted aperture sight is likely a later addition but that is only due to the date on the receiver. When you have the gun in pieces, and cleaning it, look at the bottom of the barrel, just in front of the receiver to see what is, if anything, stamped there.

[Malamute]

The rear sight sounds like a Lyman 21 or 38. It will have an extra hole or two, so removing the sight will hurt your value more than help it. The sights themselves (if it's a Lyman) is worth several hundred dollers if in good shape.

The lever may or may not be color case hardened, and over time, the colors tend to disappear. The hammer and buttplate may have been color case hardened also, tho no guarantees without a letter from the museum, and it may not say either way.


Some of the older blue tended to look greyish, particulalry over time. If it was cold rust blued, it doesnt look deep black like later guns. It is, I believe, a better finish.

[hemiallen]

Thanks

Yes, it is a lyman. I suspect the pinhole aperature is gone as the hole is way too big, and on one side of it I see a pin that probably held in a smaller, replacable pinhole. On that side there is a larger hole tapped partially into the feed ramp, and it looks aftermarket....

Interesting that not all parts I thought were color hardened were. But I still believe due to the top stamping being light in depth it has been reworked at some time, barrel outside looks unpolished, ie maybe factory.

My last 2 gun aquisitions cost an additional $75 DEALER cost as they were mail order guns..... my point is my C&R saves me big bucks.

Thank you

Allen

[pokey]

if your receiver has been refinished enough to
make the proof fade some, they may not have
removed the screws when sanding/polishing
leaving the screw heads flat looking. the lyman
as stated is a good addition being worth some
cash on it's own, but won't help the rifle's looks
if removed. barrel markings are dateable to some degree
if you think it is a replacement, show some pics maybe
we can tell. some times barrels were replaced to
change caliber to something handier.

pokey

[Griff]

Factory case-colored & hardened Winchester 94 receivers are fairly rare... so I wouldn't expect the hammer or lever to be CCH'd either. Yep, the "climbin' Lyman" is worth quite a bit if in good shape, but removing it would detract from the rifle... tho' whether as much as the value of the sight is iffy, given that yours is a re-blue.

Take the forend and mag-tube off and see if there's a date on the underside of the barrel. If it's significantly later than the date the serial number indicates, yes... it might be a replacement... pictures would also help date the style of lettering.

[hemiallen]

Makes sense on the screws now that you explain it.

I had to remove the tube spring as I had inserted a round ( 30-30) into the load gate with the action open... and it got stuck under the bolt....

Read the disassembly instructions I found, then removed the cap to look for a date, but couldn't work the forarm off. The blocks that hold the forarm cap are un blued and in the white, no signs of rust... the insides of the action are pristine. The only things that look to have been rusty are the tube with small pits in 2 locations, and the bore.

I am really confused. I am a mechanical technician, have seen plenty of items I need to try and determine failure analysis, and I am into old car restoration so I feel I can deduce the history of items fairly well, and this gun isn't making sense unless the ammo was so corrosive it destroyed the bore and the rest of the gun was in pretty good shape....

I will snap some pictures and try and post them.

Thank you
Allen

[Malamute]

You are correct that recievers being color case hardened on 1894's was very rare, but I believe hammers and levers were standard to be color case hardened on early 1894's, and perhaps the butt plate and fore end cap, tho I'm not sure about the last two items.


Primers in commercial ammo were corrosive for some time after smokeless powder came into use. I believe it was the 1920's or 30's before most commercial ammo was non-corrosive primed. Military ammo was later than that. The bore can also become rusted by exposure to cold/warm/cold conditions and not looked after.


The fore end should come off fairly easily, but the magazine tube (and spring and follower) has to be removed first, and the fore end cap as well. The fore end should then just lift off the bottom of the barrel, from the front end first to clear the fore end cap tennon. The magazine ring will ROTATE out of it's dovetail, it is NOT dovetailed in from the side like a sight. It takes very little force to rotate it. Many of the rings are damaged by people with hammers trying to drift them out sideways. Use a wood dowel in the ring to carefuly rotate it out, ot just leave it alone, there's no real reason to remove it.

[Modoc ED]

Maybe this link will help:

http://www.castbullet.com/misc/tdown.htm

[hemiallen]

[Modoc ED]

Did you see the link I posted?

[hemiallen]

Yes, thank you.

Spent some time trying to upload the picts above.

I did copy that file yesterday and used it to remove the mag cap and spring, good thing as the cap was tight and knowing the spring was that long helped not launch it across the room....

Bead front is a brass piece, center is a fold down w/ diamond in white, rear peep has a big hole and I suspect a part is missing to make the hole half it's current size.

Allen

[hemiallen]

[Griff]

I have 3 1920s .30-30 Win mdl 94s, none are CCH'd, nor are any parts... although only one is a rifle config. (1924). That rear barrel sight is a Marbles, could have been supplied at the factory, but... could be aftermarket along with the Lyman 21.

To remove the forend: remove the mag tube cap, spring and follower... then remove the pin holding the tube in the mag tube ring, that should allow the mag tube to slide forward from the forend, thru the ring. The ring will rotate 90º and slip from its shallow dovetail in the underside of the barrel. Then remove the two screws on either side of the forend cap, remove cap and forend SHOULD slide forward to clear the mortise in the front of the receiver and lift clear. The forend cap trunnion will be loose in a long dovetail and will most likely just fall when the forend cap is removed.

[hemiallen]

Thanks.
I didn't remove the tube, but did remove the innards and cap, but that trunion that is tapped for the forarm cap is tight. I didn't want to remove the tube and scratch it in the front band brace, but I guess it doesn't slide in it for this removal.

I may just have the barrel relined, but the guy in washington who does it doesn't mention 25-35, just 25-20. I emailed him to see.

The barrel is 26"...!!!!

Allen