Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

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SJPrice
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Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by SJPrice »

I just caught the last 5 minutes of this weeks "tracks Across Africa" and it had Craig Boddington hunting Cape Buffalo with a lever action. It looked to be an 1886 Winchester, but I do not know what caliber it was. Anyway it took him 6 0r 7 shots to put down the Buff and then a final just in case shot at 2 yards. Does anyone know what caliber he was shooting and if they went into what the rifle was?
Last edited by SJPrice on Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by jd45 »

If he had any sense it woulda been a .50-110. BTW, it's CAPE Buffalo. jd45
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Re: Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by Bigahh »

I did not see the show you mentioned, but I did see a magazine article in which he took a Cape Buffalo with a custom Marlin 45-70 re-chambered to .470 Linebaugh. He said in the article the round wasn't much more than the 45-70.
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Re: Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by Blaine »

Well, more or less stock Marlin 1895s and Garrett Hammerheads have been taking DG for years now.....No surprise there.... Re: Reflex264 and his DRT buff with his 450 Marlin and hand loads.
Last edited by Blaine on Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by TedH »

I've got the show on the DVR but have not watched it yet. As soon as I can get the girls off the TV i'll check it out.
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Re: Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by C. Cash »

Didn't see it either, but have a lot of respect for Craig Boddington. He wrote about levers when shooting/hunting with a lever was uncool, and likes the 358's which are even less uncool to the masses. He even mentions from time to time(gulp), the 356 Winchester! Imagine that...
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Re: Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by TedH »

Just went back and watched that episode. Oddly, they never mentioned the caliber or the rifle other than referring to Craig using a lever action rifle on the buff hunt. It was an 1886 though. His first shot was a frontal hit and his second shot was clearly a hit in the side after the animal turned. He took some more shots at the buff on the run, but I don't know how many hit their mark, if any. It certainly didn't smack the buff like the big double rifles he normally shoots on the buffalo hunts.
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Re: Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by Bang »

I am looking at a lever for Cape Buffalo - but it needs to weigh 6lbs and shoot 20mm cannon shells with no recoil ( just joking )

I am still looking at an OLD - new still in the box marlin .375 winchester for $600, but the .375H&H is still coming with me. A new Chapuis double in .375flanged is about $12k ( i wish )

2005 I chest shot a cape from about 10yards away - the PH eyes were crossing and he started coughing as i managed to stalk into point bank range. I was presented with a bayonet and dunce cap for my days work.

The shot was perfect - they dug the 300gr woodleigh bullet from the rump on the buff - it retained 257gr.

It will be the last time i try for a heart/lung shot.
It still took 15 seconds for the beast to die while it was hunting me in the scrub. I will be using a lever rifle with solids and taking head/neck shots next time.

Nambia in July hopefully. I like hunting but not when people are shooting back at me - they have armies to do that.

Any suggestions on a good Cape rifle ?
I wish to die like my grandmother - peacefully in her sleep.
Not screaming like the passengers in her car !

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Re: Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by 86er »

I called Craig and asked him. It is the 475 Turnbull caliber 1886. He said they used 400 grain Barnes solids and expanding bullets. Admits they are a little light in the sectional density department but says you can get by with an extremely good bullet even if it is a little light for caliber. The velocity was 1900 fps 26" according to Turnbull. He also said the first shot was deadly but did not have an immediate effect, hence the extras.

Here's my 2 cent on the 475 Turnbull - It was intended to be a dangerous game capable and legal caliber for a levergun. The high hopes were for a 500 gr bullet at 1900-2100 fps. First of all, the velocity is not there in 500 gr. Secondly, there are accuracy and reliability issues with the 500 gr bullet in this caliber. Just about everything Doug, Craig and Dougs employees and customers have shot is with the 400 gr bullets, even 2 elephants. Nosler used the rifle for an episode of their TV show. Obviously Nosler could have used any bullet or load they wanted. They ended up with their 450gr solid and told me that was the only one they could get to work flawlessly with good accuracy. The cartridge is based on a 51-110 trimmed down. Why didn't he just neck it down and not trim it? By trimming it he lost case capacity and therefore velocity and the ability to use the heavier 500 gr + bullets. Lastly, if you don't use a 500 gr bullet at over 1900 fps the caliber would not be legal in a few places, one of which requires a 4000 ft pd minimum muzzle energy (nobody told that Gov't that M.E. has little to do with lethality). Craig readily admitted (in print too) that it is nothing you could not do , and duplicate with a modern 45-70 load in the right rifle. .458 400gr at 2000 fps is no problem in a new Marlin or Win 86 clone, and the sectional density is there to enhance the penetration.
Great guns (Turnbull), cool caliber (475 and 470 Turnbull) but no realistic advantage over what was and is already out there.
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Re: Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by BigMuddy »

Thanks 86er for the great feedback. I saw the episode today and sure wished something had been said about the gun. I am sure it is hard to get all in a half hour show. I knew it was an '86 that was customized.

Still it was cool to see a levergun. I would love to see them more, along with some revolvers once in a while.
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Re: Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by Mike Rintoul »

I did not see the show but I know some about the 475 Turnbull. Doug sent me a test barrel and had me work up loads. I discussed at length the need for 450 grain + bullets to make the caliber dangerous game legal in all countries and to get penetration that is comparable to proven traditional dangerous game calibers. There was a sense of pressure to get some ammo out on the market and I believe some compromises may have been made. It does make sense based on my observations and testing that the 400 grain bullets are useful and worry free. I think Americans as a whole like to see higher velocity numbers moreso than bullet weight, sectional density or penetration. That is one aspect. The other is that the various designs of 500 gr bullets do offer some challenges to getting a rifle to function perfectly when they are loaded long (OCL) or the frontal shape is unforgiving. 86er asked a good question in his post: Why didn't he just leave the 50-110 case length? After all, that cartridge has been loaded in the '86 action without complaints for decades. I believe the answer has something to do with the partnership of Hornady and others that are making the dies and brass. If you make the "wildcat" too simple there is much less profit to be had. By creating minor complications you create a specific demand since it becomes too timely, costly or tedious to re-form the brass at home. Who can blame the inventors of the cartridge, the promoters, or the accessory partners for wanting to make money off the idea. That's why you make a proprietary cartridge in the first place. Ironically, the tweeking to keep it in line with "proprietary" is the very thing that inhibits the overall potential. In spite of the caliber(s) Doug's work is impeccable and he produces one hell of a rifle. Either of those calibers are clearly effective when they are used with proper consideration.
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Re: Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by JDL »

Did anyone notice how long it was between shots? Seems he must have taken the rifle down off his shoulder while cycling the lever. Not knocking him, just saying.
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Re: Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by TedH »

Well you got to also remember he was trying to place a shot on a running animal at what looked to be 75 yards or better.
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Re: Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by buckeyeshooter »

Mike, the reason that Turnbull has 2 .475 rounds has to do with the length limitations on the Marlin action. The winchester shoots the .475 Turnbull and it is a fulll length case. The Marlin will cycle only a 2.55 loaded case from the factory. There is a bit of room to lengthen the case a bit, someone will chime in with the max. length via gunsmithing. The max length however will not accomodate the full length 50-110 round.
As an aside, I had Turnbull rebarrel a Marlin Cowboy version with 26 inch barrel for me in 50 Alaskan. I can get the 500 grain at 2000fps out of my rifle without too much of a problem powder wise. Recoilwise, its not too much fun to shoot. Currently, I have been practicing with a 535 grain Woodleigh, with the nose flattened at 1860FPS for an upcomming bear hunt in June. I was getting 2 1/2 inch groups at 50 yards offhand with hte open sights saturday. From a bench, they shrink to 1 1/2 inches. But its really no fun to shoot from the bench. For my $.02. the 50 alaskan or 50-110 in modern loading makes the .475 round pretty much non-useful. Bullet weights run from 300 grains up to 600 grains if you want to single load them.
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Re: Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by jd45 »

Did I mention that IF he had ANY sense, it woulda been chambered in .50-110??? jd45
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Re: Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by S.B. »

I never considered Craig Boddington much of hunter. He shoots like he's recoi shy?
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Re: Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by RIHMFIRE »

Bang wrote:I am looking at a lever for Cape Buffalo - but it needs to weigh 6lbs and shoot 20mm cannon shells with no recoil ( just joking )

I am still looking at an OLD - new still in the box marlin .375 winchester for $600, but the .375H&H is still coming with me. A new Chapuis double in .375flanged is about $12k ( i wish )

2005 I chest shot a cape from about 10yards away - the PH eyes were crossing and he started coughing as i managed to stalk into point bank range. I was presented with a bayonet and dunce cap for my days work.

The shot was perfect - they dug the 300gr woodleigh bullet from the rump on the buff - it retained 257gr.

It will be the last time i try for a heart/lung shot.
It still took 15 seconds for the beast to die while it was hunting me in the scrub. I will be using a lever rifle with solids and taking head/neck shots next time.

Nambia in July hopefully. I like hunting but not when people are shooting back at me - they have armies to do that.

Any suggestions on a good Cape rifle ?
10 yds...get any closer....and he might check your oil next time
with his horns
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Re: Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by Idiot »

S.B. wrote:I never considered Craig Boddington much of hunter.
Oh my! :o :?
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Re: Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by TedH »

S.B. wrote:I never considered Craig Boddington much of hunter.

Care to elaborate?
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Re: Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by Bang »

10 yds...get any closer....and he might check your oil next time
with his horns
A newbie mistake that would have ended badly if the wind was in the wrong direction.
I am glad I am alive, older and wiser to admit I was an idiot that day. Nambia is booked for June.


Anywhere we can download this Craig Boddington video ?
I wish to die like my grandmother - peacefully in her sleep.
Not screaming like the passengers in her car !

Is there a 21st Century lever action?
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Re: Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by C. Cash »

Bang wrote:
10 yds...get any closer....and he might check your oil next time
with his horns
A newbie mistake that would have ended badly if the wind was in the wrong direction.
I am glad I am alive, older and wiser to admit I was an idiot that day. Nambia is booked for June.


Anywhere we can download this Craig Boddington video ?
It's better to try, and to make mistakes, than it is to die many years later in a pee soaked diaper in a nursing home, having never tried much at all.
:mrgreen:

Bang...love your tag line!!! :lol:
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Re: Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by flb »

Ever notice no matter how good a guy is or what he has accomplished someone always knocks him? In other words," I'm better than he is". I'm a good guy but I fully realize there is always someone tougher, smarter, better lookin, and luckier than I, get over it and grow up.
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Re: Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by S.B. »

Craig Boddington is and has been just as good as mommy and daddy's money can buy.
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Re: Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by RAC »

S.B. wrote:Craig Boddington is and has been just as good as mommy and daddy's money can buy.
Steve

You got any proof for that accusation?
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Re: Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by S.B. »

Where have you been?
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Re: Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by RAC »

I don't post much. Just lurk.
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Re: Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by missionary5155 »

Greetings I have not seen any footage but as we all know Shot Placement is everything. Buff have been shot with alot less successfully. I am not a Buff hunter but I do know anyone can fire that perfect shot and for some reason the results just do not happen. That Buff may have had a heart off centered for all we know. Genetic anamolies happen. But that´s hunting.. and when it can bite or stomp back that just adds the flavor !
I would use my 45-70 for any critter on earth. But I also would Deeply appreciate having a backup close by.
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Re: Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by 86er »

Does anyone know Craig Boddington personally? I do. In fact when he was in Dallas he spent time with my 3 1/2 year old son and he was great with him. He volunteered to take pictures with the boys and he gave them a book and some videos. He is a retired from USMC and then did another 10 years in the Reserve and retired as a General. He has always been down to earth and cordial to anyo9ne that walks up to him when I have been with him. His book produce a decent income each year and he gets some royalty stipends from sponsors. Tim Danklef and Safari Productions fund his trips that are in conjuction with a video (CD) production. Craig gets a free trip and is paid a bit as well. He is also on the staff of Guns and Ammo magazine and TV Show (formerly serving as the editor). The guy makes a living hunting and writing about it. He has more Safaris under his belt than any other American alive today. With that, he keeps the perspective that he is the client hunter and NOT a PH. He always yields to the PH's wishes, requests and demands and is always respectful to the PH even though he may be twice their age (or more). I has observed Craig as a very experienced hunter, respectful of animals and he enjoys doing the spot and stalk traditional hunting more than any other type. He has a little bit of a weird personality, and although I can't describe exactly what it is I can understand if some folks don't relate to it. To knock him for being successful in the hunting and shooting publishing industry and for his hunting ethic is unwarranted and out of line.
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Re: Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by TedH »

If any man is living the dream, it's Craig Boddington. I'd be honored to share a camp with him any day.
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Re: Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by S.B. »

TedH wrote:If any man is living the dream, it's Craig Boddington. I'd be honored to share a camp with him any day.
One of your heros, huh? Well, to each his own.
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Re: Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by Idiot »

One of the good things about Boddington is his willingness to admit when he's wrong. I remember years back when he was touting the virtues of the Remington 7MM Magnum. He'd go on and on about how flat it shot and how hard it hit and what a good "big" game cartridge it was. It used to drive me nuts. The Remington 7MM Magnum is nothing more than a very loud 270 Winchester, and although it's a dandy long range deer cartridge, it was never the magic "big" game rifle its advertising claimed.

Recently, I picked-up an article by Boddington that not only played down the virtues of Remington's 7MM Magnum but also contained a confession from the author that he was mistaken in his initial assessment of the cartridge. And he backed up his new enlightenment with actual field experience. I think Craig Boddington is a straight shooter. His writing sometimes puts me to sleep; but I was raised on Col. Charles Askins so that can't be held against him.

I read a bunch of Boddington's stuff and not only gained from his experience, but also admire his ability to deal with today's hunting realities without allowing the influences of romance and nostalgia to take over. He also hunts game the way it should be hunted - with his feet on the ground, and that is something I hold in high regard.
Last edited by Idiot on Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by C. Cash »

TedH wrote:If any man is living the dream, it's Craig Boddington. I'd be honored to share a camp with him any day.
You bet. I am thankful for what he has done for our sport(and for writing about levers in particular when doing so was uncool), and as he is a Veteran, for his service to our Country.
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Re: Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by KWK »

I have a book or two by Boddington on my shelves. They are written well enough, and I can see no reason to question his abilities or his experiences.

He takes the time to put out hundreds of pages of well written material, sharing much useful information along the way.

Some people cast one-liner aspersions on internet forums.

Golly, who would I rather share a camp with? :roll:
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Re: Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by TedH »

S.B. wrote: One of your heros, huh? Well, to each his own.
Steve
You've got some kind of chip on yer shoulder, don't you? :roll:
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Re: Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by flb »

methinks there tis a bit of envy involved! I can't do it so I'll belittle those who can!
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Re: Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by Mike D. »

I am having a difficult time understanding how this "non-issue" has carried on for so long. Craig Boddington has more than proved his abilities, so why the long winded discussion. Joe finally made some sense of it all, end of story. :?
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Re: Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by BwanaDave »

I have enjoyed his books much more than his articles. I just re-read American Hunting Rifles a couple of weeks ago and I think it is a quality book and I would recommend it to anyone. He clearly loves guns and hunting so that scores a lot of points with me. He doesn't harp on just his point of view, he covers all sides when discussing various guns, etc. I learn a lot from his books.

His articles are often revisions of things previously covered but that is a tradition as old as gun magazines.

I also enjoy reading both Askins and many of the other old boys. The is something about political incorrectness that I find joyful.

I can't fault the guy for making a living, we all know how hard that is. The way I see it he has paid his dues and has earned my respect.

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Re: Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by crs »

My, but wasn't that a fun post? :shock:
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Re: Craig Boddington with a Lever Action...

Post by madman4570 »

I have personally met and discussed hunting issues with Mr.Craig Boddington
and let me tell you from personal experience he is as good as they come.

Meet him/Talk with him a bit and you will see he is a great person.
I wish I have accomplished as much as he has or even half as much!!!!!
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