SR 4759

Welcome to the Leverguns.Com Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here ... politely.

Moderators: Hobie, AmBraCol

Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.

Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Post Reply
Message
Author
Bob A
Levergunner 1.0
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:16 pm
Location: Northern California

SR 4759

#1 Post by Bob A » Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:19 pm

I have been getting good results loading cast in my 30-30 with SR4759. Lyman starting loads produce about 1500 fps with 170 gr bullets with good groups.
I have started looking for a real powder puff load - like 1100 fps. I have been using faster powders for this but wonder if 4759 can be used in even lighter loads. I did a search and the only ref I found was from "Shooting with Hobie" refering to the 25-35.

Hobie wrote "also took the .25-35 out with the load of 8 gr. SR4759 under the Remington 86 gr. JFP intended for the .25-20. Avg velocity/energy was 1191/268. Using the lower vertical leg of the duplex reticule as a post it went into a cloverleaf at 25 yards, on POA. This is exactly the use this load was intended for and I'll be making up more of them".

Can you go as light as 8 gr in a case the size of a 30-30 / 25-35? Does it get position sensitive?
I really like this powder and would like to use it with plain base bullets at the lower velocity

Bob A

Don McDowell

Re: SR 4759

#2 Post by Don McDowell » Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:23 pm

I wouldn't try to go any lower than what Lyman lists with 4759, it doesn't seem to like to be used that lite,seems to me it gets pretty position sensitive when you try to go ultralite with it.
5744 will go that slow.
While I don't like Trail Boss in anything other than straightwalled handgun cartridges, it will throw those 30-30 bullets at that 1000fps.

User avatar
El Chivo
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3597
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:12 pm
Location: An American in California

Re: SR 4759

#3 Post by El Chivo » Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:14 pm

I would go with Hobie's advice and load it in the single digits.

I tried the Lyman loads around 15, 15.5, and 16 grains. These were very good in the spring (65 degrees out) but when I used it in the summer (95-105) the groups opened up from touching at 25 yards to "lucky to be on the paper".

I gave up on SR 4759 for 30-30 because I think it's really a pistol powder. I came up with a nice moderate load for .357 which was very accurate. I hope it will stay that way in the heat! My .357 load is for 180 grain bullets, and I think SR 4759 being a slower powder helps with the big bullets.
"I'll tell you what living is. You get up when you feel like it. You fry yourself some eggs. You see what kind of a day it is."

2X22
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 933
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:08 am
Location: Salmon Creek, SW Washington

Re: SR 4759

#4 Post by 2X22 » Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:31 pm

SR4759 is NOT a pistol powder. SR4756 is. 4759 was originally designed as a case filling powder for light loads. It is a WONDERFUL cast bullet powder.

My Lyman reloading handbook, 4th Edition, shows a minimum 15.5grs and a maximum of 17.7 with SR4759.

Now, for SR4756 there is a minimum of 7 grs for 1102fps and a maximum of 10.5 for 1423fps. Would THAT be what you were thinking of?

22
"Yes, we did produce a near-perfect republic. But will they keep it? Or will they, in the enjoyment of plenty, lose the memory of freedom? Material abundance without character is the path of destruction." - Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
Borregos
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 4756
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:40 am
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: SR 4759

#5 Post by Borregos » Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:34 pm

I use SR4759 in my XP 100 in 7mmBR and it does not seem to change with the heat at all, it is very consistant. Have never tried it in the 30-30 though.
Pete
Sometimes I wonder if it is worthwhile gnawing through the leather straps to get up in the morning..................

6pt-sika
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 6473
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:15 pm
Location: Virginia

Re: SR 4759

#6 Post by 6pt-sika » Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:10 pm

I've used quite a bit of SR4759 over the last 9 years ! In everything from the 30-30 to the 45-70 and it worked well in all pllications However I will say it is a little postion tempermental inside the case !

I have also used SR4756 and SR7625 in the 32 Special and 35 REM with cast bullets with very good results . Also killed deer with both the cartridges and powders when pushing cast bullets !

But in my less then unbiased opinion I think XMP5744 is a far better cast bullet powder !

I now use 5744 in everything from the 25-36 Marlin all the way up to the 40-82 and 45-70 !

With 5744 I've killed 12 deer in the last four seasons using 11 different rifles and cast bullets . They included the 32-40 , 356 WIN , 375 WIN , 38-56 , 40-65 , 444 and 45-70 .

By no means am I knocking SR4759 and I make sure I keep a pound or two on my shelf at all times . But I have found that XMP5744 gets used a heck of alot more now :wink:
Parkers , 444 Marlin , 6.5mm's , Sika Deer and my family in the Philippines !

colo native
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 383
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:02 pm
Location: ruin va

Re: SR 4759

#7 Post by colo native » Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:05 pm

ya might wanta try Trail Boss or UniQ

Charles
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2004
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:29 pm
Location: Deep South Texas

Re: SR 4759

#8 Post by Charles » Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:15 pm

In spite of the SR (Sporting Rifle) prefix, 4759 was developed for military application during WWII. It was a bulky powder for reduced loads with "frangible" bullets for use in air to air gunnery training. For many years, it was THE cast bullet powder. It can be a little position sensative, but all powders are that way to some degree. I don't think you will have any safety issues by reducing the powder charge below loadbook levels. Those big kernels of powder are coated to control the burning rate and somewhere down the charge scale you will state to get poor ignition. But, go ahead and find out where that is.

4759 does have some pistol applications in large capacity sixgun rounds. Paco was doing some work with this powder in sixgun round, but it has not got to the printed page, or screen.

flake powders such as unique excell at igniting in small charges for you needs. I have used many pounds of 4759 over the years with cast bullets and consider it one of the best for that application.

Try it and then you can be the one to tell us how it works.

Lefty Dude
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1409
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:31 pm
Location: Arizona Territory

Re: SR 4759

#9 Post by Lefty Dude » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:45 am

I use SR4759 in 30-06 & 8mm Mauser cast loads, with great success.

In the 30-30, for a light load with the 170 gr. cast. I use 5744, 11 grains is my CAS/SASS long range side match prefered load. This is good out to 200 yards.
This load has won the Michigan State SASS, long range rifle caliber three years in a row.
Last week at the SASS Winter Range I scored 9 hits with 10 rounds. The target was a steel Buffalo at 190 yards,steel Buff was about 3' X 2'. I chocked a shot, and it was my fault. This also was a timed event.

For a power load with the 170 gr. cast I use Reloader 7. Knocking steel down at 200 meters.
SASS# 51223
Arizona Cowboy Shooter's Assoc.
Cowtown Cowboy Shooter's Assoc.

Uberti 73/44-40 carbine, Rossi 92/44-40,
Marlin 94CB/44 24" Limited, Winchester 94/30-30

User avatar
El Chivo
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3597
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:12 pm
Location: An American in California

Re: SR 4759

#10 Post by El Chivo » Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:25 am

2X22 wrote:SR4759 is NOT a pistol powder. SR4756 is. 4759 was originally designed as a case filling powder for light loads. It is a WONDERFUL cast bullet powder.

My Lyman reloading handbook, 4th Edition, shows a minimum 15.5grs and a maximum of 17.7 with SR4759.

Now, for SR4756 there is a minimum of 7 grs for 1102fps and a maximum of 10.5 for 1423fps. Would THAT be what you were thinking of?

22
I concluded that 4759 was really a pistol powder because it was close in speed to 2400. Although I see it falls on the rifle side of the line, several levergunners chewed me out for using it in 30-30. Although it is bulky, it doesn't really fill the case that well in 30-30, and those 15-17 grain loads gave me the trouble in the heat.

I should call it a pistol caliber powder because I'll be shooting it out of a rifle even though it's a pistol caliber.

I got excellent results (in the heat of August) with it in .357 and 180 grain bullets, but I haven't yet loaded up a batch for sighting in and testing. Very good on filling the pistol case and accurate too.
"I'll tell you what living is. You get up when you feel like it. You fry yourself some eggs. You see what kind of a day it is."

Charles
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2004
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:29 pm
Location: Deep South Texas

Re: SR 4759

#11 Post by Charles » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:41 am

I won't go so far as to say that data for 4759, 2400 and 4227 are interchangable. I will say the burning rates of these three powders are very close and they all have the same applications in rifle and hangun loading.

I will confess, I have never used 5744 and I read so much good stuff about it as a cast bullet powder, that I feel down right guilty for not using it. I am just old fashioned and have 50 years of use with 4759,2400, and 4227 and they can't play tricks on me. Beside, I have a pretty good stash of those powder laid in. But 5744 must be good stuff as large numbers of shooters swear by it. If I were starting over again, it would be on the top of my list to work with.

I am hopelessly out of date and stick to Bullseye, Unique, 2400, 4759, 4227, 4198, 3031, 4895 and 4350. I have used some 231, AA9 and AA5 like them fine, but they don't do any better than Bullseye, Unique an d 2400 so I don't see any reason to change. I have never tried any of the Reloader series of powders, but I do have a couple of can of Hercules Hi-Vel # 2 left over. I did shoot alot of the original WWII Ball C when it went for 90 cents a pound. Oh yess.. I have used some H335 as a cast bullet powder and it works well, but no better than the others I have used so long. Any information I give about powders must be placed in the context of my age and unwillingness to try something new when something old works just fine. :D

Don McDowell

Re: SR 4759

#12 Post by Don McDowell » Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:00 am

Charles I quit 4759 after the first bottle of 5744, accuracy improved a bunch, and I didn't think it would be that much better. :shock:
Some folks gripe about the old maids left in the bore, but if you pay close attention they're pretty soft, and have never caused me any problems, plus there's something of an oily residue from 5744 that just seems to help the lube do its job easier.
Heck for the 16 bucks a can costs if you don't like it the wife can apply it to her roses and nobody is out enough to worry about.

Charles
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2004
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:29 pm
Location: Deep South Texas

Re: SR 4759

#13 Post by Charles » Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:17 am

Don--- I am also hard headed and "sot" in my ways. I am also just arrogant enough to believe I could not get better accuracy with a change in powder. Not to brag..well maybe just a little... But all of my rifles will shoot cast just as well, if not better, than the best condom bullet loads. Yep..I am talking down to sub-moa in 30 caliber rifles. Not all rifles are capable of that level of accuracy with any bullet or load, but if it is, I can coax that level out with cast bullets. It requires lots of work, an attention to the esoterica, but that is the joy and fun of it all.

I am also too darn cheap to spend money on new fangled powders. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And just think, my poor, long suffering wife, has to live with me. :evil:

User avatar
KirkD
Desktop Artiste
Posts: 4274
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:52 am
Location: Central Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Re: SR 4759

#14 Post by KirkD » Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:55 am

Charles mentioned that 4759 makes a good cast powder. I don't have as much experience with it as Charles does, but based on the little I have thus far, I am agreeing. SR 4759 gave me the tightest groups with my 45-70 (405 grain cast PB) and with my 38-55 (255 grain BB). From first trials with my 38-40, it is giving me the best groups thus far of all the powders I've tried.

My Hornady reloading manual puts SR 4759 as slightly faster than either 5744 and 4227, but slower than 2400. I do not agree with this based on my experience with 4759 in the 45-70. I noticed that 4759 expands the case much tighter to the chamber than 5744 or 4227. I found out that 4759 is slightly faster than 2400 based on its Dupont Index (DPI) and its Relative Quickness (RQ). Here are the data for the powders in question (the first number is the DPI and the second number is the RQ) ...

IMR SR4759 ... DPI=210 .... RQ=30
2400 .............. DPI=189 .... RQ=27
IMR 4227 ....... DPI=180 .... RQ=25.7
IMR 4198 ....... DPI=160 .... RQ=22.9
RL-7 .............. DPI=136 .... RQ=19.4
IMR 3031 ....... DPI=135 .... RQ=19.3

I do not have the DPI and RQ for 5744, but in my own reloading, I have found that it gives almost identical ballistics as IMR 4227, grain for grain. In my own reloading, I use 5744 and IMR 4227 data interchangeably (of course, I am not working at max loads where a fraction of a grain might make a big difference).

All this to say, that thus far I am finding that IMR SR4759 seems to give that extra little pressure spike to obturate my cast bullets that even 2400 does not seem to give for the same velocity. It may be due to the fact that 4759 has a hollow core, permitting greater surface area to be exposed to the flame, giving much quicker burning than 2400. Based on my limited experience thus far, it seems to give a very similar pressure spike to FFg. Another bonus of 4759 over 5744 (which I've used quite a bit for quite a few cartridges) is that it fills the case better. My current experiments with the 38-40 is showing that 19 grains is almost a capacity load, so position sensitivity is less of an issue. In spite of advertising claims, I have found that 5744 still shoots more consistently (smaller E.S. and S.D.) with toilet paper filler. That tells me that it is still a bit position sensitive. Of course, it is a whole lot better than 2400 which, typically, gives me heinous E.S.'s and S.D.'s.

All this to say that I think SR4759 stands out as a unique powder within the medium burning powders in the range of Blue Dot to IMR 4227 and it appears to be especially good for cast bullets.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
http://p2c.com/students/blogs/kirk-durston

User avatar
Hobie
Moderator
Posts: 13886
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:54 pm
Location: Staunton, VA, USA
Contact:

Re: SR 4759

#15 Post by Hobie » Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:38 pm

I can only say that I have indeed used 8 gr. of IMR SR4759 (not SR4756) in the .25-35 with the 86 gr. and in the .30 WCF with the 140 gr. cast bullets.
Sincerely,

Hobie

"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
Image

Bob A
Levergunner 1.0
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:16 pm
Location: Northern California

Re: SR 4759

#16 Post by Bob A » Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:45 pm

Hobie wrote:I can only say that I have indeed used 8 gr. of IMR SR4759 (not SR4756) in the .25-35 with the 86 gr. and in the .30 WCF with the 140 gr. cast bullets.
Thanks Hobie,
Do you recall whether you noticed position sensitivity with such low charges of 4759?
I'm planning to load up some new rounds tonight for testing this weekend.
Its just a question of how low is reasonable to test.

I think I'll load up some Blue Dot as well.
All with 165gr plane base cast bullets.

Bob A

User avatar
Hobie
Moderator
Posts: 13886
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:54 pm
Location: Staunton, VA, USA
Contact:

Re: SR 4759

#17 Post by Hobie » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:21 pm

Bob A wrote:
Hobie wrote:I can only say that I have indeed used 8 gr. of IMR SR4759 (not SR4756) in the .25-35 with the 86 gr. and in the .30 WCF with the 140 gr. cast bullets.
Thanks Hobie,
Do you recall whether you noticed position sensitivity with such low charges of 4759?
I'm planning to load up some new rounds tonight for testing this weekend.
Its just a question of how low is reasonable to test.

I think I'll load up some Blue Dot as well.
All with 165gr plane base cast bullets.

Bob A
Didn't mention position sensitivity because I didn't notice any. Because I didn't notice a problem, I use the load. Don't see why there would be any sensitivity because it is about 50% of case volume with bullet seated.
Sincerely,

Hobie

"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
Image

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: iceman and 8 guests