copper bullets

gary rice · Post by **gary rice** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:32 pm

anyone know who produces copper or non lead bullets for reloading? of course this is for kalifornia's new anti lead law. looking for 45 caliber, for 45-70 and 45 colt.

WCF3030 · Post by **WCF3030** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:46 pm

Barnes.
http://www.barnesbullets.com/resources/links/

86er · Post by **86er** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:54 pm

Federal and Winchester both have one coming - but I don't know if they'll be available in traditional levergun cartridges.

phlatnose · Post by **phlatnose** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:37 pm

A thought just crossed my mind.
I do not know if/who, is manifacturing copper bullets for the pistol calibers.
I may be wrong, but as far as I can recall it is illegal to use copper solids in pistols or revolvers. Wasnt there something about cop killer bullets, that penetrate body armor?
I dont know if this would deter manufacturers from producing bullets for pistol calibers, even if they were used in a rifle.
Just thinking aloud.

phlatnose · Post by **phlatnose** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:43 pm

OK. I just got an education. Barnes do have copper bullets for the 45 colt.
At a buck each, I dont think I will try them though.

gary rice · Post by **gary rice** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:58 pm

well if thats true then i guess theyve really got me this time. first they pass a lead bullet ban knowing that copper bullets are illegal? no more hunting for me in the condor range.

phlatnose wrote:A thought just crossed my mind.
I do not know if/who, is manifacturing copper bullets for the pistol calibers.
I may be wrong, but as far as I can recall it is illegal to use copper solids in pistols or revolvers. Wasnt there something about cop killer bullets, that penetrate body armor?
I dont know if this would deter manufacturers from producing bullets for pistol calibers, even if they were used in a rifle.
Just thinking aloud.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:08 pm

Barnes has some great bullets. I just stocked up on some from MidwayUSA. Keep in mind that copper is 75% less than lead in weight; therefore, in order to get a bullet in copper the same weight as a lead bullet the copper bullet will have to be much longer than it's lead conterpart. It's something we will have to work with and experiment with.

Copper bullets are much more (I'm talking MONEY here) than lead bullets too. Yikes!!!!! The difference is enough to bring tears to a grown mans eyes. Hell, it's so bad it would bring tears to an aligators eyes.

Hopefully someone will work on making lead free composite bullets made out of the same material as the newest shotgun pellets and put copper jackets on them so that we can get the weighted bullets we are looking for.

The Barnes bullets are going to be lighter than what you are used to or maybe want but they should perform well. Besides they are the only ones recognized for use in CA as it stands now. Even if Federal, Winchester, or Remington came out with lead free bullets tomorrow, they would still have to get them certified by CA Fish and Game.

gary rice · Post by **gary rice** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:13 pm

thanks for the info. i might order one box and see how they perform. obviously their was alot of thought put into this new law, making it very expensive for the average guy out here, knowing quite a few will stop hunting. i just looked at some on midway, looks like about a buck each. thats expensive.

Modoc ED wrote:Barnes has some great bullets. I just stocked up on some from MidwayUSA. Keep in mind that copper is 75% less than lead in weight; therefore, in order to get a bullet in copper the same weight as a lead bullet the copper bullet will have to be much longer than it's lead conterpart. It's something we will have to work with and experiment with.

Copper bullets are much more (I'm talking MONEY here) than lead bullets too. Yikes!!!!! The difference is enough to bring tears to a grown mans eyes. Hell, it's so bad it would bring tears to an aligators eyes.

Hopefully someone will work on making lead free composite bullets made out of the same material as the newest shotgun pellets and put copper jackets on them so that we can get the weighted bullets we are looking for.

The Barnes bullets are going to be lighter than what you are used to or maybe want but they should perform well. Besides they are the only ones recognized for use in CA as it stands now. Even if Federal, Winchester, or Remington came out with lead free bullets tomorrow, they would still have to get them certified by CA Fish and Game.

Leverluver · Post by **Leverluver** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:28 pm

The "cop killer" aspect deals with those intentional made to NOT expand. Obviously Barnes and others that will come later, made to expand, have no issues with the cop killer rule, even though they are a monolithic material.

new pig hunter · Post by **new pig hunter** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:51 pm

Lapua ammo with Naturalis copper bullet. Not your specific calibers, but just adding for general info.

http://www.lapua.com/index.php?id=874

Cheers,

Carl

phlatnose · Post by **phlatnose** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:01 pm

Leverluver,
Thanks, my memory slipped. Cop killer was associated with the solid non expanding bullets.

cutter · Post by **cutter** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:03 pm

Just thinking outloud here, how hard would it be to swage copper rod into bullets?

phlatnose · Post by **phlatnose** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:08 pm

Cutter,
Very hard.

bsaride · Post by **bsaride** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:12 pm

Just received my first 50 30-30 bullets from Barnes.
$.93 ea with shipping. Only 2 powders listed on their website.
I will wait until after the new year before contacting them
about any additional loads.

Guess I will order 50/mo now.

gary rice · Post by **gary rice** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:25 pm

i just make a modest living but i would donate all that i have to keep an anti gun democract out of office.

bsaride wrote:Just received my first 50 30-30 bullets from Barnes.
$.93 ea with shipping. Only 2 powders listed on their website.
I will wait until after the new year before contacting them
about any additional loads.

Guess I will order 50/mo now.

Bramble · Post by **Bramble** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:53 pm

I saw this the other day, don't know if it is of use
http://www.frangiblebullets.com/product ... index.html

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:30 pm

I like Barnes Bullets.

But they are too expensive - regardless of my Market/Capitalist bent.

I would venture to guess that I could use standard copper grounding rod and a lathe and turn copper solids for far less than Barnes charges.

Fortunately, I don't have to, because, though I have plenty of rod, I don't have a lathe.

As for Other Bullets...

I am leary of Tungesten/frangibles - I want penetration, not surface detonation.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 2:21 am

I'm going to get a box of the Cor-Bon and try it in my 30-30, see if I can get sighted in with 15 rounds, and save 5 for hunting. Given the realities of California deer hunting, those 5 rounds should last me 50 years.

I'm also thinking about developing a load for 35 Remington, using the Barnes 140 grain bullet. But that could become a more expensive project. Plus I'm thinking I'll be better off with the 150 grainers anyway.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 1:37 pm

OI,
I think if you check more closely you'll find that your "copper" ground rod is in fact steel with a copper coating.

With this lead ban has anyone thought of using Zinc? I talked to a fellow here at one of our ranges 20 years ago that was going to be making zinc bullets.

Rusty <><

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 1:59 pm

Rusty wrote:OI,
I think if you check more closely you'll find that your "copper" ground rod is in fact steel with a copper coating.

With this lead ban has anyone thought of using Zinc? I talked to a fellow here at one of our ranges 20 years ago that was going to be making zinc bullets.

Rusty <><

Already cut off a hunk with a file. It's copper - from an old house.

Leverluver · Post by **Leverluver** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 2:10 pm

Rusty is correct, ground rod is not copper, only copper plated. An FYI, at current prices a 6' stick of .5" copper would cost over $21 a stick IF you bought 4,000# from a foundry. Buying a few sticks on the retail market, it would more like $30 a stick. You won't get any more than one box (50) of 400 grain bullets out of a stick and that is with CNC machinery. You won't get anywhere close to that from a hand lathe. So now you have $.60+ in a bullet before even considering time of manufacture. If forced to use pure copper bullets, well you better go take out a home equity loan cause they will never be cheap. Barnes is not gouging so deal with it or shoot cast (in a few more years, good luck even with that).