To convert or not to convert that is the question

gordylew · Post by **gordylew** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:42 pm

I just got an old Ruger superblack hawk (1971) in trade. I'm thinking on sending it back to have it factory reblued. while there it will be converted to the hammer block safety. what are you guys thoughts on having the updated safety installed? And has anybody had their Ruger reblued from the factory and how was job?

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:47 pm

If you dont mind me asking why are you reblueing? The wear is just history and storys.

As to the safety issue if the gun aint broke dont fix it. Just only load five beans in the wheel and you should be good. Just my 2cents.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:54 pm

I have an Old Model BH .357 that has been converted. It had the original action in it when I got it. I've never installed the conversion action. See no need to.

"IF" I were to send an O.M. back to Ruger it would have to be for something I couldn't get done outside the factory. In that case I would remove the original lockwork and return the gun without it. THAT WAY you are positive when the gun comes back you have it's original action to put back in.

I have not had a gun reblued by Ruger, but I have read good reports from those that have.

I agree with JReed why bother with the reblueing? I've had maybe one gun reblued in my entire shooting life and they did a beautiful job, but not the way I wanted it done. Why bother?

But it's your gun.

Joe

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:59 pm

From what I have heard, just take it to a good 'smith to do the bluing and leave Ruger out of the equation, they will "updated" it for you.

I agree with JReed though, I believe that history can't be bought so why mess w/ it.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:06 pm

According to Ruger's website if they do the conversion for you they will return all the old parts with it. that way no collector's value is lost.

Rusty <><

gordylew · Post by **gordylew** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:15 pm

The blue is maybe 50% before someones attempt at cold blueing. A gunsmith @ here would charge a couple of hundred I would guess. Ruger charges $80. They charge $30 shipping but I don,t know if they charge that if your having the gun "updated".

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:23 pm

Like Rusty said they return the origional parts with the gun. The factory also checks it over for any other problems that may need addressed as in worn parts etc. I would send it to Ruger. They are the experts IMHO.

meanc · Post by **meanc** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:40 pm

First, shoot it and see how well you like the action and the idea of loading only 5 rounds at a time.

I'm use to loading a "Full" cylinder myself with all my revolvers, so all my Rugers are "New Models", of which I'm quite happy with.

Since you got it in trade, you apparently don't have any emotional attachment to it. I say send it to Ruger and get the re-blue and xfer system added, especially if you're use to a FULL cylinder. Just keep the original lockwork around in case you decide to sell it or want ti switch it back.

Tommy Reb · Post by **Tommy Reb** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:13 pm

I had an old model single six reblued by the factory some years ago. They did a very nice job. But I would not let them "upgrade" it. If they will not do the reblue without the conversion, find an outside shop to do the reblue. I have a number of old models. None are upgraded, nor will they be while mine.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:20 pm

Don't.

Okay, for Pete's sake DON'T!

I have three Black Hawks - one is a Super. All pre-1973 "new models" (one also being a Flat Top). You couldn't pay me to have the safety garbage added to it, and this is the reason I wouldn't ever buy a "new model". They just don't feel right.

With an ounce of common sense in gun handling this is simply not a problem. Problem is our society which has equal measures of stupidity and litigation-fever (i.e. - blame someone else for your stupidity).

Have it reblued locally if you must. Don't send it back to be ruined!

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:27 pm

Ruger will not do any other work of any kind on an Old Model BH until it has been converted. End of story.

If you send your gun back to Ruger you have no choice in the matter. It will be converted weather you want it or not.

So if you call them and tell them you have an unconverted gun they will send you a shipping box for you to send it back to them. You can have them do other things to it, but the shipping and the conversion is on their dime. You just have to pay for the other work done.
As for them returning the parts, there are a number of people over on The Ruger Forum who have stated they either got the wrong parts back or no parts back at all.
That is why I said, pull the original action out and send it in with out it. That way there is no question it's the correct action.
After all, there is four (4) types of actions used in the old models.

OK, I'm done now, gonna go to bed.

Nighty night.

Joe

oregon73 · Post by **oregon73** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:32 pm

To me, there is nothing so nice as that original, four-click action of an old single action revolver. I can't afford the Colts but I've got several Rugers, nearly all of them old models, and I'm not a fan of the safety conversion. I've got one old model Single Six that did have the safety conversion, and I hated it. The cylinder latch popped up too early, leaving a horrible ring on the cylinder. When cocking the hammer, the action felt gritty. Just terrible. Not to mention, the conversion transfer bar looks like a flimsy piece of tin, if you get my meaning. Hopefully that piece is a little more beefy in a Super Blackhawk, but I don't know. Hardly worth being able carry six instead of five. I've got two old model Super Blackhawks and wouldn't let Ruger near them.

Sometimes they lose pieces, so I don't fully believe them when they say they send all original parts back. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. Also, the part about "not losing collectors' value" is hogwash--Ruger will stamp an 'R' on the bottom of the cylinder frame. The R will be covered by the grip frame, but still it is there forever. The gun will never be the same.

My opinion: don't convert. But that's just my opinion. It's your gun.

Rob

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:37 pm

Might contact Signal Mountain Gunworks in Roundup Mt. Prices may have changed abit, but 2 years ago they'ld color case and blue a Ruger for 125.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:46 pm

Well, I declare. I love the ruger safety, it's genious. H&R has the same setup now. I can't see any reason not to have this.

But, if I had a collectible ruger I wouldn't want to alter it either. Mine are just boring old blue collar wheel guns with hammer block safeties.

buckeyeshooter · Post by **buckeyeshooter** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:45 am

NOTE!!! Remove the internals before returning the gun if that is what you want to do. Ruger no longer returns the original parts from conversion. This may be of no importance for you. However, the original parts are of interest if the gun is to be resold--- even refinished guns with the original parts have some collector value. Original parts kits themselves now have collector value. You will be throwing away $100.00 + if you let them convert the gun and do not save the original parts.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:10 pm

buckeyeshooter wrote:NOTE!!! Remove the internals before returning the gun if that is what you want to do. Ruger no longer returns the original parts from conversion. This may be of no importance for you. However, the original parts are of interest if the gun is to be resold--- even refinished guns with the original parts have some collector value. Original parts kits themselves now have collector value. You will be throwing away $100.00 + if you let them convert the gun and do not save the original parts.

Buckeyeshooter, please give us the link or source of your statements that Ruger does not return the old action.
I have checked the Ruger site { http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/PDF/Safet ... fferAd.pdf } and they plainly state that the parts ARE returned.

And I must correct a statement I made above, you now have to pay shipment to Ruger to get a gun converted. They've changed it. A waste of money as far as I'm concerned.

Joe

cubrock · Post by **cubrock** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:47 pm

Ruger says they will return the old lockwork, but why risk it? I have heard from a couple people that they didn't get the old lockwork back. Accidents happen despite Ruger's best intentions.

By the time you pay shipping both ways, you will still be out a couple hundred for the bluing by Ruger. I say you are even money either way.

Or, you could sell the gun to me.

Jeff Pitts · Post by **Jeff Pitts** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:02 pm

I've had 2 of the converted Rugers, none I had done myself

Both of them had the transfer break at least once. I don't have a gunsmith that is willing to put the original parts back in, I'm not to handy with tools. But if anyone knows of a gunsmith willing to put the parts back in and retune it, let me know and I'll have 'em in the mail by monday!

Jeff

cubrock · Post by **cubrock** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:13 pm

Jeff Pitts wrote:I've had 2 of the converted Rugers, none I had done myself

Both of them had the transfer break at least once. I don't have a gunsmith that is willing to put the original parts back in, I'm not to handy with tools. But if anyone knows of a gunsmith willing to put the parts back in and retune it, let me know and I'll have 'em in the mail by monday!

Jeff

Jeff,

It will likely not need retuning if you put the old parts back in. It is a relatively easy job that I bet you could do yourself. But, if you don't want to do it yourself and you want an action job with it, you'd be happy with Dave Clements, John Gallagher, Andy Horvath, Jim Stroh, or any of the other popular single-action smiths. The only problem with those guys is their backlog.

Or, I bet Ruger would send you replacement transfer bars for free if you called them. Those are even easier to replace than the whole lockwork.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:22 pm

Jeff Pitts wrote:I've had 2 of the converted Rugers, none I had done myself

Both of them had the transfer break at least once. I don't have a gunsmith that is willing to put the original parts back in, I'm not to handy with tools. But if anyone knows of a gunsmith willing to put the parts back in and retune it, let me know and I'll have 'em in the mail by monday!

Jeff

Jeff,

Putting the original action back in is simple. Don't overthink the job.
The only thing I'll say is to use the paul that is in the conversion action.
"Generally" that pawl will time up better than the old one.
After that it's just a simple matter to lay out the old parts and switch them back into the gun as you remove the conversion parts.

Go to the Ruger site: http://www.ruger.com/index.html and dig around till you find the owners manual section. It's a .pdf file. Print it out. It has disassembly instructions in there.
All you really need is a set of quality gunsmith screw drivers and some time.

Joe

cubrock · Post by **cubrock** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:24 pm

J Miller wrote:
Jeff Pitts wrote:I've had 2 of the converted Rugers, none I had done myself

Both of them had the transfer break at least once. I don't have a gunsmith that is willing to put the original parts back in, I'm not to handy with tools. But if anyone knows of a gunsmith willing to put the parts back in and retune it, let me know and I'll have 'em in the mail by monday!

Jeff
Jeff,

Putting the original action back in is simple. Don't overthink the job.
The only thing I'll say is to use the paul that is in the conversion action.
"Generally" that pawl will time up better than the old one.
After that it's just a simple matter to lay out the old parts and switch them back into the gun as you remove the conversion parts.

Go to the Ruger site: http://www.ruger.com/index.html and dig around till you find the owners manual section. It's a .pdf file. Print it out. It has disassembly instructions in there.
All you really need is a set of quality gunsmith screw drivers and some time.

Joe

+1!

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:35 pm

Jeff,

Here is a thread over on TRF that has detailed step by step instructions on how to disassemble an Old Model BH.
http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=16136

It really is simple.

I'll help to if you decide to do it yourself. You really should. Everybody should know how to disassemble and reassemble their guns.

Here is a pic of what the two actions look like:

Joe

Scott64A · Post by **Scott64A** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:42 pm

Gordylew,

If you have to have it done, just find a gunsmith nearby and talk to him a bit. Tell him what's going on, but don't quote any prices. Say, "I want to have this done, but I can't really see doing it for more outside of the Ruger factory."

He/she will understand. They will probably quote a price at or below Ruger, and you won't have to worry about the action being changed out.

I own a Ne Model BH in .357, and all I had to do to relieve the clunkiness of the action was to lighten up the trigger springs a little. Many that grew up with the priginal action and are used to it just plain don't like the NM actions, only because they are DIFFERENT. Different means the clicking isn't the same, and the cycling can be off a little, (which has less to do with the design than the TIMING of the action,) and the trigger pull can feel stiff.

I like mine just fine. A friend of mine had an Old Model and we shot that a bunch. My uncle Norman has an OM in .357 and we used to shoot flashcubes with it, (remember those?!?). As far as I can tell, the only difference I have felt is in the cocking and trigger pull. Once you lighten up the springs a little, it gets closer in feel to the Old Model.

I have to say, I like having six loaded up, and if God forbid,I ever drop it, I feel good knowing that I don't even have to think about the possibility of one accidentally touching off and hurting someone. IMHO, it's a very sensible way to improve a design while not affecting things that much. Different, but kind of the same. This is just my opinion. Ruger is and has always been a manufacturer that emphasizes superior integrity and quality for less money than the competition, and that puts them head and shoulders above the rest.

I know that not EVERY factory-worker is awesome all the time, so stuff gets out that isn't quite up to snuff every once in a while, but from all accounts, if Ruger screwed something up, they go out of their way to fix it. Good company, and I read that the guys who started Thompson-Center modeled their business plan after Ruger. They, too have excellent design and customer-service.

If I was holding an OM BH in my hand like yours, and it had had a shoddy attempt at cold-bluing done to it, I'd still take it to a GOOD gunsmith to have it reblued and NOT stamped with the "R" to preserve collector value.
You could have all of the original lockwork in it, and have it look nice, too.

Just be sure to look over some of his projects in various stages of the process to see if his bluing is the kind you want.
Everyone's different.
If a man can re-blue and have a gun come out with a factory-like jb on it, then go with him, whatever the cost. You get what you pay for.

Ruger will stamp it and update it if they get it, and they will charge shipping, to boot.

LeverBob · Post by **LeverBob** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:46 pm

Grizz wrote:Well, I declare. I love the ruger safety, it's genious. H&R has the same setup now. I can't see any reason not to have this.

But, if I had a collectible ruger I wouldn't want to alter it either. Mine are just boring old blue collar wheel guns with hammer block safeties.

I agree with Grizz. If your pistol is a "collectable", then don't convert it. If yours isn't then I would send it back for the conversion.
My BH .45 Colt isn't (1980). I really like having that 6th shot. A few yrs. ago I (myself) did an action job on it that included installing a Brownells freespin pawl. I like that just fine too. I set my trigger pull at 3.5 lbs & timed the bolt.

IMHO it is a safer pistol & smoother to boot!

By the way, I just pulled it out of it's scabbard and it still has the four clicks. See for yourself the next time you handle one with the safety system. Any Ruger BH I aquire that doesn't have it will be on it's way to Ruger for one.

Do a poor-mans trigger job. Also, remove the grips & carefully lift off one leg of the trigger spring. That will double the life of the spring & halve the pressure on the trigger & hammer. Again, see for youself.
The hammer is easier to cock, the trigger is easier to squeeze.

Since this is the gun that I carry in the field, it is dutied to protect me from bad animals. Can't think of a better combo that is this affordable.

LeverBob

Boge Quinn · Post by **Boge Quinn** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:42 pm

First things first - Cubrock, you don't NEED 2 Grover #5s......

To the matter at hand - I've never sent an OM back to Ruger, but I would if it needed work. I'd think about sending one back for reblue, but Ruger does a good job and they are cheap - I sent them a NM 4-5/8" .357 Blackhawk that had been in a house fire. The metal was fine as it was in a safe, but the plastic bag had melted on the gun and ruined the finish. Ruger did a GREAT job refinishing it completely, fixed some lockwork and timing issues, and replaced the grips (which had also been messed-up in the fire). They did all the work and replaced the grips for no extra cost.

My good friend (and a man I deeply respect) Terry Murbach sends ALL his OM Rugers back for conversion, and he has a reason: he says he'd rather wear out the BS new lockwork than the original parts. Hard to argue with that logic.

I do have an OM .45 that was converted when I bought it, and I miss the click (it has three). I also have a couple of converted OM Bearcats (that were also that way when I bought them), and I have to admit I rather like the look of the NM ("Baby Super Blackhawk") hammer.

cubrock · Post by **cubrock** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:20 pm

Boge Quinn wrote:First things first - Cubrock, you don't NEED 2 Grover #5s......

You are right - I need three. I still kick myself for not buying the .44 Special #5 I saw for sale about a year and a half ago. And the stainless one that was sold at the same time. Both went for very good prices compared to today's.

Boge Quinn · Post by **Boge Quinn** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:36 pm

That .44 Spl is a rarity!

I have a West texas Flattop Target .45 and I LOVE it, but oh how I yearn for a #5. I passed up on one a couple years ago, like new and CHEAP. Thought I couldn't spare the money, and very soon therafter I no longer had the money OR the gun! Lesson learned - but at least a good friend wound up with the gun.

cubrock · Post by **cubrock** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:56 pm

Boge Quinn wrote:That .44 Spl is a rarity!

I have a West texas Flattop Target .45 and I LOVE it, but oh how I yearn for a #5. I passed up on one a couple years ago, like new and CHEAP. Thought I couldn't spare the money, and very soon therafter I no longer had the money OR the gun! Lesson learned - but at least a good friend wound up with the gun.

Boge,

If you ever part with that Flattop Target, I'd like a shot. Maybe one day we could work out a trade - #5 for Flattop.

That .44 Special #5 is the only one in that caliber in my survey. I bet there are a few more, but they haven't surfaced yet! They are also rumored to have been made in .41 Mag and I've heard of one possibly in .32-20.

Boge Quinn · Post by **Boge Quinn** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 4:10 pm

I heard about that .32-20 as well. Wouldn't that be something to find at a gun show?

My West Texas Flattop Target was the last gun Grover made before he went out of business. He sent it to my dear friend Jim Taylor, and Jim sold it to me earlier this year. That's one I'll never let go.

cubrock · Post by **cubrock** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 4:46 pm

Boge Quinn wrote:My West Texas Flattop Target was the last gun Grover made before he went out of business. He sent it to my dear friend Jim Taylor, and Jim sold it to me earlier this year. That's one I'll never let go.

Why do you think I want it? The history and connections make it very desireable to me as well. Offer is open if you are ever in need of disposing of it.

Boge Quinn · Post by **Boge Quinn** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:18 pm

Didn't know you knew about it! If I ever get that desperate I'm sure you'll know that too.

cubrock · Post by **cubrock** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:29 pm

Boge Quinn wrote:Didn't know you knew about it! If I ever get that desperate I'm sure you'll know that too.

You are the one that told me about it.

We were chatting about TLAs on the Sixshooter Board, if I remember correctly. Just wanted to make sure you knew I wasn't spying on you.

Boge Quinn · Post by **Boge Quinn** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:42 pm

Brain fanny burp!

I didn't think you were spying, just omniscient.

Jeff Pitts · Post by **Jeff Pitts** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:12 pm

Thanks for all the info, guys!

I think..........gulp...........I'm gonna give it a try!

I reckon if I can get the first one done, I can do the 2nd one easier. I have all the old replacement parts.

THANKS!

Jeff