OT - Help me choose my EBP

RSY · Post by **RSY** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:00 pm

I'm looking at:

XD40
XD(M)
M&P40
M&P45

Now, if you say M&P45, should I get the 4" or 4.5" model. I like long barrels, but I'm not exactly sure that extra 0.5" is really worth anything, in this case.

Thanks, in advance.

Scott

pharmseller · Post by **pharmseller** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:02 pm

Glock

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:03 pm

I take it your not a Glock fan? Of the ones your listed I have only held a XD40, but I really liked it.

RSY · Post by **RSY** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:11 pm

No, not a real Glock fan for a number of reasons. The Glock is actually an OBP (OLD Black Pistol).

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:13 pm

I have an XD40 tactical model, and just got a Glock 27 (the sub-compact .40). Haven't had the latter long enough to make a good comparison. I do like the grip safety on the XD40.

gunslinger598 · Post by **gunslinger598** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:29 pm

I recently picked up a beretta PX4 Storm 45 acp.
Very nice ....

I'm not much help I reckon just one more to think about .....

jhrosier · Post by **jhrosier** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:35 pm

I had a .40S&W Glock. Every time I handled it, I worried about ADs and KBs. It shot very well.
I traded it for a .40S&W Sig.

It also shoots very well, and I am very comfortable handling it.
I suppose that someone, somewhere has KB'd a Sig, but you sure don't hear much about it.
Each to their own, I say.
It seems especially with autoloaders, most folks have one kind that just plain works better for them.
That doesn't seem to be as big a problem with revolvers.

Jack

airedaleman · Post by **airedaleman** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:34 pm

pharmseller wrote:Glock

Nichts mehr zu sagen...

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:53 pm

Either of the Springfields. Glocks are great if you like them; they're not if you don't, same as any other firearm.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 12:48 am

Love the Para-Ordnance's - wide body if you have large hands, regular if not. Plain old bangety-bang, but they are reliable and durable in my experience (maybe 8,000 rounds through several I've owned over the years).

ALSO - If you like double action, you owe it to yourself to at least dry-fire one of their LDA's before you make your purchase decision. Better trigger than anything I've shot other than maybe a Contender pistol; amazing!

H_Talon · Post by **H_Talon** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:03 am

I would suggest going to a range and try out you choices .. and get the one that fits ...

as for me I'm a HK USP fan, full size in 40 or 357sig. I prefer my 40's to
my glocks but have to admit my sig 220's and 1911's are just as high on my
list ... well after my 3" redhawk in 45lc.

just a thought ....

Talon

Post by **Old Savage** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:15 am

Wow - don't know what any of those are. Get a single action.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:42 am

Colt 1911

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:58 am

My son bought a Glock M21. He reads a lot. After a while he got rid of it and bought a 1911. Now he's as happy as a clam at high tide.

Sorry but IMNSHO plastic is for kiddie toys, real guns should be made from walnut and steel. The first time I ever saw plastic on a gun was when Mossberg replaced their trigger group with the one they have now. The old ones were alloy and top shelf. these are not so good. I guess it depends on yer comin up.

BTW, I shot the Glock myself. I could stack round after round in the X ring with it, but after firing a magazine full I'd look at the target and look at the gun and think to myself how did those things get there? The trigger just doesn't feel like anything I've ever shot before. It just made me uncomfortable.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:07 am

H_Talon wrote:I would suggest going to a range and try out you choices .. and get the one that fits ...

+1

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:05 am

Tycer wrote:
H_Talon wrote:I would suggest going to a range and try out you choices .. and get the one that fits ...
+1

+1 and then some.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:48 am

I've got a Glock. Have held an XD. I like the XD over the Glock for the one safety feature the Glock doesn't have and that's the grip safety. Running around my place with the Glock, I've had to place it in my back pocket, etc.. for a short walk to the tractor or whatever and it makes me darn nervous. If anything happens to get inside the trigger bow and push on the trigger. Well, there ya go, a ND.

Now, before everyone starts asking me why I'm not carrying that thing in a holster, I'll tell you. Have you ever bucked hay packing a piece.?Put up fencing? Jumped in and out of a tractor? It's a pain working with a gun on your hip in those situations.

Why do I have a Glock? Because, I'm not about to subject my 1911's to dirt duty. I picked it up when sometimes I was required to crawl through muck and mire and again I wasn't about to tear up my 1911's. Would they take it, sure, but it's like your car. Would your car take not having it's oil changed for some time again and a again? Yep, but would you want to do that knowing the end results. No. The Glock cost $400, my 1911's $1,000 - 2,000. Plus, I had an AR15 and a Rem 700 for company.

I love my 1911's.

salvo · Post by **salvo** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 12:04 pm

I have Glocks also, they are tools that work every time, but they are soulless creatures

A friend of mine bought the S&W M&P and he was a die hard Glock guy, I got to handle it and prefer it to the XD.
If I ever dumped my Glocks I would go the M&P.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 12:18 pm

Salvo said it.

I have Glocks also, they are tools that work every time, but they are soulless creatures

I feel the same way.

steveb · Post by **steveb** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:12 pm

I like the XD as it takes some from the Glock design, the Sig, and the 1911 grip saftey, and IIRC has a fully supported chamber. I had my XD-45 a couple years ago and Springfield didnt sell or make parts available like triggers and such. You had to send the pistol in if you wanted such or needed it serviced. With a Glock, there is no such nonsense as parts are everywhere. Dont know if Springfield has changed thier stance on this or not, but it is the reason I sent mine packin. There may be an abundance of aftermarket parts now available. I dont know.

RSY · Post by **RSY** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:11 pm

H_Talon wrote:I would suggest going to a range and try out you choices .. and get the one that fits ...

Sure, that is the source of my short list there. I have played with and could live with any of them. Just trying to narrow it down, at this point. For me, a defensive pistol does not have to shoot bug-hole groups. What is important to me is feel and function/reliability.

As for M1911s, I agree about the "soul" thing. However, I have seen many, many M1911s that have been modded out to the point where they have not an ounce more soul than any polymer piece.

I have plenty of pieces with character. Sometimes you just need something for a gunfight. As much as I worship at the altar of St. JMB, in a pinch I'd rather have something maybe a little uglier that is less finicky and feeds off a 15-round magazine instead of 7 or 8.

Scott

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:13 pm

I like my Glocks (19&26) but like a couple other's have said they are just tools. I began shooting IDPA a few years ago with my 1911. After about a year I decided I didn't really want to put all that wear and tear on a $1000 custom pistol. Plus the cost differece in ammo switching to 9mm would alomost pay for the new G19. Over 5000 rounds later I've had it jam once! That was with the CCI Alum. Blazers.

Probably isn'ta heck of a lot of difference between the Glock and the XD as far as function and reliability. Comes down to whtch one fits better. To me I the XD doesn't feel right.

jb

airedaleman · Post by **airedaleman** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:27 pm

kimwcook wrote:Salvo said it.

I have Glocks also, they are tools that work every time, but they are soulless creatures

I feel the same way.

Amen!

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:37 pm

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:58 pm

I don't think I've met a piece of "fantastic-plastic" that had a soul. Just don't think it is possible. As noted, they do make good tools and have there place in anyone's individual armory...

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:49 pm

Yes, as far as the plastic wonders go, my first choice would be a Glock. I used to own a Glock 19, it never ever jammed on me, but they are had to love, but then again what does love have to do with it?

I sold the Glock, and a couple of other guns, to finally scrape up enough money for a Wilson Combat 1911, and I have never regreted it. But then again I am a 1911 man, and I have been shooting them too long to change now.

Rexster · Post by **Rexster** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 4:44 am

One reason PDs still usually go with Glock instead of the XD for issued handguns is because detail-stripping is far more complicated, and there is no armorer program available for the XD; it has to go back to Springfield Armory for service. I do not know how good SA's customer service is. S&W is well-known for good customer service.

alnitak · Post by **alnitak** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:49 am

Some people swear by the Glocks. For me, they just don't fit my hand well. I think the XD feels better and points more naturally. I really like the 4" service model. The S&W M&P also feels very comfortable in the hand, and has the adjustable grip. Either one would be a fine choice. I went with the Kahr, since I was more interested in a slimmer CC pistol.

Which one do you shoot better?

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 5:01 pm

jdad wrote:SIG

I think if I were getting a "new" plastic pistol it would be the new SiG P250 Modular with the "drop-in" reciever/trigger group.

The ability to switch from subcompact to fullsize to whatever is really cool IMO.

That or maybe a FiveseveN... (if it weren't for the lousy supply train...)

RSY · Post by **RSY** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:47 pm

Old Ironsights wrote:
jdad wrote:SIG
I think if I were getting a "new" plastic pistol it would be the new SiG P250 Modular with the "drop-in" reciever/trigger group.

The ability to switch from subcompact to fullsize to whatever is really cool IMO.

That or maybe a FiveseveN... (if it weren't for the lousy supply train...)

The Sig website appears to be down for the count. Weird.

Scott

RSY · Post by **RSY** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:51 pm

One thing I forgot to mention about the S&W M&P is that it has an ambidextrous slide release. That is a dream come true for a lefty like me!

Scott

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:59 pm

RSY wrote:One thing I forgot to mention about the S&W M&P is that it has an ambidextrous slide release. That is a dream come true for a lefty like me!

Scott

As a fellow southpaw, I looked at the M&P. Ended up with a Glock 30. It felt better in my hand. That, and even with 1911's, I've always pulled the slide back if I ran a mag dry. Don't know why, had a couple of "experts" tell me it was wrong, yet, it works for me.

By the way, the definition of an "expert" is, "someone who tells someone else, who has been doing a thing for decades, how to do something they have never done themselves". They haunt every endeavor attepted by man.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:26 pm

RSY wrote:
Old Ironsights wrote:
jdad wrote:SIG
I think if I were getting a "new" plastic pistol it would be the new SiG P250 Modular with the "drop-in" reciever/trigger group.

The ability to switch from subcompact to fullsize to whatever is really cool IMO.

That or maybe a FiveseveN... (if it weren't for the lousy supply train...)

The Sig website appears to be down for the count. Weird.

Scott

Yeah. Oddly enough, it crashed while I was there this afternoon...

They may dislike me...

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:29 pm

jeepnik wrote:...By the way, the definition of an "expert" is, "someone who tells someone else, who has been doing a thing for decades, how to do something they have never done themselves"...

Naah. Here is the actual definition:

"Ex" is an unknown quantity,

"Spurt" is a Drip under pressure...

Therefore an "Exspurt" is:

"An Unknown Drip Under Pressure".

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:39 pm

I always heard that an expert was someone who's wife had left the room...

AFA the original question, I tried a sub-compact XD9 and the companion size Glock 9mm (26?). Neither felt good in my hand but I shot the 26 much better. I didn't care for the muzzle flip of the XD. OTOH a friend just bought a 5" XD45 and couldn't be happier.

This past weekend I took a class where G17s were supplied (along with the ammo so it wasn't hard to get past the idea of shooting a Glock

). It still didn't feel "right" in my hand but I scored 249 out of 250 with it.

I'd have no issues with a Glock IF they fit my hand as well as a BHP. Ever thought about getting a compact BHP?

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:46 pm

Old Ironsights wrote:
jeepnik wrote:...By the way, the definition of an "expert" is, "someone who tells someone else, who has been doing a thing for decades, how to do something they have never done themselves"...
Naah. Here is the actual definition:

"Ex" is an unknown quantity,

"Spurt" is a Drip under pressure...

Therefore an "Exspurt" is:

"An Unknown Drip Under Pressure".

Okay, I like this one. Anybody got anymore?

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:49 pm

Browning High Power. Now that is a seriously good suggestion. I used one for a bit overseas. Never shot anything live with it, but it did handle nicely, and even with the double stacked mag seemed to fit my hand well. Ended up going back to the 1911 though. For some reason, maybe just the felt recoil, it was more reassuring.

tarkio · Post by **tarkio** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:23 pm

kimwcook wrote:I've got a Glock. Have held an XD. I like the XD over the Glock for the one safety feature the Glock doesn't have and that's the grip safety. Running around my place with the Glock, I've had to place it in my back pocket, etc.. for a short walk to the tractor or whatever and it makes me darn nervous. If anything happens to get inside the trigger bow and push on the trigger. Well, there ya go, a ND.

Now, before everyone starts asking me why I'm not carrying that thing in a holster, I'll tell you. Have you ever bucked hay packing a piece.?Put up fencing? Jumped in and out of a tractor? It's a pain working with a gun on your hip in those situations.

Why do I have a Glock? Because, I'm not about to subject my 1911's to dirt duty. I picked it up when sometimes I was required to crawl through muck and mire and again I wasn't about to tear up my 1911's. Would they take it, sure, but it's like your car. Would your car take not having it's oil changed for some time again and a again? Yep, but would you want to do that knowing the end results. No. The Glock cost $400, my 1911's $1,000 - 2,000. Plus, I had an AR15 and a Rem 700 for company.

I love my 1911's.

Yes I have and do wear a sidearm on me constantly when bucking bales, working cows, in and out of a tractor, fencing etc. I really feel the need to emphasize that if you are going to carry a Glock, you must carry it holstered because your fears are appropriate. Put your holster at 4:00 - 5:00 and it shouldn't be in the way. The other option is opening a hole in your leg or butt or groin. If you aren't willing to do this, stop carrying your Glock. I, by the way, carry at 3:00.

You carry a Glock for the right reasons and know that how you are carrying it is incorrect yet you continue to do so. Not very good judgment.

As to the other choices. I don't have any experience with the M&P. However I have been around XDs handling them, having other students in firearms classes with me, watching them in action etc. People here are high on the grip safety, however, it raises a problem. Try to clear a failure singlehandedly with this firearm. Thry to clear a type III malfunction. Not very easy to do at all compared to most all other sidearms. Also, my experience with them is that the platform is a good platform, the grip angle fits some very well but I do not like the difficulty this sidearm causes when you have to clear malfunctions. I really believe the weak point with the XDs that I saw last year was the mags. We were dropping mags non-stop all day and a short time into the day, the XDs started faltering. Mainly from a failure to feed because of a little dirt that got into the XD mags. There were 3 or 4 XDs, 12 - 14 Glocks and 2 HKs and a 1911 or two. Going through 4-500 rounds per person, the only sidearms that had problems were the XDs. And THEY ALL HAD ISSUES.

So until you convince me that the mag issue is corrected, I have No interest. At the time of the course where I watched these sidearms, I was considering one for my wife. After that course, because of the mag issues and grip safety impairing your ability clearing this weapon, I bought her a Glock 19.

Me, I carry an HK USP compact and love it. The best sidearm for me.

You, I would suggest what others here have said, shoot them all and see which works for you.

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:33 pm

XD45 - 13 rounds of whoop butt

I love mine. Fits my medium sized hands great. Shoots cast bullets jest fine too.

CBinNH · Post by **CBinNH** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:35 pm

Not on your possibles list, but I have become fond of my FN Fiveseven OI mentioned. Not a small gun but very light. Loaded with 20 rounds it weighs less than an empty Glock 17. Modest recoil. FN loads do 1700 & 2000 fps. Elite Ammunition has a couple different loads that exceed the FN stuff. Their S4 Ultra Raptor does 2600 fps. I have had no malfunctions in the 600+ rounds I've fired so far. I like the little bottle-neck cartridge.

Terry Murbach · Post by **Terry Murbach** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:38 pm

DANG, I MUST BE GETTING STUPID IN MY OLD AGE. I'VE BEEN IN THIS BIDNESS 58 YEARS AND HAVE NO CLUE WHAT AN EBP MIGHT BE.
OR MIGHT IT BE YOU WHIPPERSNAPPERS ARE MAKING UP STUFF AS YOU GO ALONG ??

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:43 pm

It's one of them Ebil Black Pistolas made out of that plastic stuff.

Kinda like an Ebil Black Rifle, only stubbier, but just as scary to the Libs.

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:45 pm

I figured it meant Evil Black President the first time I saw it.... been reading too many of those political posts I guess....

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:08 pm

Terry Murbach wrote: OR MIGHT IT BE YOU WHIPPERSNAPPERS ARE MAKING UP STUFF AS YOU GO ALONG ??

darn it, we done been caught!

BobM · Post by **BobM** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:57 pm

I'd go with the M&P in 45 given the choices. I've been issued an M&P40 for 2 1/2 years now; I bought the compact 40 last year to use for back-up. I recently picked up an M&P9mm for my daughter and I'll probably get another for myself eventually. (Just not a big fan of the 40 cartridge)

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:06 pm

Terry Murbach wrote:DANG, I MUST BE GETTING STUPID IN MY OLD AGE. I'VE BEEN IN THIS BIDNESS 58 YEARS AND HAVE NO CLUE WHAT AN EBP MIGHT BE.
OR MIGHT IT BE YOU WHIPPERSNAPPERS ARE MAKING UP STUFF AS YOU GO ALONG ??

He He... Dang, never thought I'd start a trend!

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... bp#p150686

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:06 pm

Old Ironsights wrote:It's one of them Ebil Black Pistolas made out of that plastic stuff.

Kinda like an Ebil Black Rifle, only stubbier, but just as scary to the Libs.

That's what I figured OI!

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:07 pm

O.S.O.K. wrote:I figured it meant Evil Black President the first time I saw it.... been reading too many of those political posts I guess....

Okay Jac - now you owe me a keyboard!!!

Rexster · Post by **Rexster** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:16 am

RSY wrote:
Old Ironsights wrote:
jdad wrote:SIG
I think if I were getting a "new" plastic pistol it would be the new SiG P250 Modular with the "drop-in" reciever/trigger group.

The ability to switch from subcompact to fullsize to whatever is really cool IMO.

That or maybe a FiveseveN... (if it weren't for the lousy supply train...)

The Sig website appears to be down for the count. Weird.

Scott

No, not weird, just a friendly neighborhood ice storm in New Hampshire, where SIG's USA operations are located.

AndyM · Post by **AndyM** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:36 am

airedaleman wrote:
kimwcook wrote:Salvo said it.

I have Glocks also, they are tools that work every time, but they are soulless creatures

I feel the same way.
Amen!

agree!