OT: CA Lead Bans not enough for the antis ...

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86er
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OT: CA Lead Bans not enough for the antis ...

Post by 86er »

Despite the strong opposition of SCI and other sporting groups, the California Fish and Game Commission expanded a statutory ban on the use of lead ammunition in condor "range" in central and southern California (about a 1/3 to 1/4 of the State). Lead ammunition is now prohibited in condor range for all big game (e.g., deer, elk, bear, wild pig) and non-game birds and mammals (e.g., crow, coyote, ground squirrels). While the legislative ban recently passed by the California Legislature and signed by Governor Schwarzenegger did not include non-game bird and mammals (other than coyote) and did not cover rimfire firearms, the regulatory ban covers all of these. Most troubling, the regulatory ban covers .22 caliber rimfire rifles, used mainly for small game. Currently, no nonlead ammunition exists for this firearm. In addition, the State's environmental review concluded that nongame bird and mammal carcasses do not represent a significant threat to the condor. The regulatory ban tracks the statutory ban's definition of condor "range" to include large areas of historic range where no condors currently exist. Consistent with SCI's comments, the Commission did define nonlead ammunition as allowing up to 1% lead, as currently available nonlead ammunition contains trace amounts of lead. Under the statute, the Commission must establish procedures to certify nonlead ammunition and a coupon reimbursement program if private funds can be found. Finally, the Commission established that mere possession of uncertified (i.e., leaded) ammunition and a firearm capable of discharging it in condor "range" is a violation of the law punishable by up to a $1,000 fine and a year in jail. The lead ammunition ban goes into effect on July 1, 2008.

Another way the anti hunting beaurocrats use trickery and deceit to show one issue and take advantage of it as soon as possible thereafter.
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Hank Dodge
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Post by Hank Dodge »

Now I'm gonna' really have to look into what constitutes "condor range"!!

I've always got a .22 and ammunition in the truck. Seems that with this new ruling, a mere traffic stop and possible search could land a man in a good deal of trouble.

Just one more step at kalifornia trying to ban guns, ammunition, and good folks in general. Born and raised in this state, it really upsets me to see it being taken over by the liberal left wing factions that have gained ground here. We just can't seem to vote them out of office no matter how hard we try.

Hank
"Shoot them big guns......you can see the holes better!"
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Old Ironsights
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Post by Old Ironsights »

Is anyone suprised? :evil:

FWIW... isn't "quikshok" .22 ammo all copper?
C2N14... because life is not energetic enough.
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don Tomás
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Re: OT: CA Lead Bans not enough for the antis ...

Post by don Tomás »

86er wrote:...Finally, the Commission established that mere possession of uncertified (i.e., leaded) ammunition and a firearm capable of discharging it in condor "range" is a violation of the law punishable by up to a $1,000 fine and a year in jail. .
Say what??? :shock:
Tom
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Old Ironsights
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Re: OT: CA Lead Bans not enough for the antis ...

Post by Old Ironsights »

don Tomás wrote:
86er wrote:...Finally, the Commission established that mere possession of uncertified (i.e., leaded) ammunition and a firearm capable of discharging it in condor "range" is a violation of the law punishable by up to a $1,000 fine and a year in jail. .
Say what??? :shock:
Tom
Say, you better load any gun you have with Barnes Copper 'cause even a "permitted" firearm, like, say a Glock .40, would technically be in violation with anything else.

Better buy stock in Barnes, Federal & CorBon.

CorBon is the only provider of non-lead handgun ammo in anything but Revolver loads.

Federal does .357, .41, .44, .454, .460, .480 & .500.

CorBon gets those and all of the other main autoloader cartridges too.

http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/l ... mmunition/

If you've got anything but Barnes in your Handgun in Condor Land you're doomed.
C2N14... because life is not energetic enough.
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!
The Lewis
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Post by The Lewis »

Ummm, What the heck are these people thinking? I love California, spent many years there, I am sure glad I'm not there now. darn shame....
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El Chivo
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Post by El Chivo »

Wow, they doubled the penalty, and added jail time. Whew!

I got a notice they expanded the range eastward, but at the time you were going to be able to hunt ground squirrels with a .22.

Looks pretty bad. I'm not sure of the difference between the statutory and regulatory ban.

Well, I was figuring to stick to deer hunting anyway. I guess we can still go after small game with a shotgun and non-lead shells.

One thing I'll have to check into - our shooting range is within the Angeles National Forest, does that mean I can't take my .22 to the range? Or any other rifles with lead? I can't afford to practice with copper! They're going to have to have some clarification there.

Another thing, I'm not thrilled with my job right now, maybe it's time to move.
"I'll tell you what living is. You get up when you feel like it. You fry yourself some eggs. You see what kind of a day it is."
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Old Ironsights
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Post by Old Ironsights »

Sad to say, but here is a very unplesant prediction:

AFAIC the idiots at the California Department of Fish & Game who Upped the Ante with this Reg to include Rimfires, Fines and Jail Time just signed the Death Warrant for one or more CA Fish & Wildlife Officers &/or excitable types with guns.

If simply possessing a .22 (having one in your car or house) in a "Condor Zone" can get you $1000 & a Year, SOMEBODY is going to Shoot First when approached by a F&W officer.

If I were one, I'd quit on June 30 or sooner.
C2N14... because life is not energetic enough.
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
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Old Ironsights
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Post by Old Ironsights »

I have to post this because this is the type of BS we have to deal with WITHIN THE HUNTING & SHOOTING COMMUNITY:
delaney
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Rate Member posted December 10, 2007 06:37 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am for a lead ban. Unfortunately I am not a "gear head" or such that can come up with a new compound for these weapons. My point is simply that its really no big deal. The gun companies will simply make a new round that fits these guns that currently now only pound lead. I wish I was smart enough to come up with something and start a new company and beat the big companies to it. So, who's got the smarts and how much do we all need to invest it in to make a go of it, quickly. Then, when we've got the alternative, we'll strongly promote doing away with lead and we'll be set!
http://www.hoosierhunting.com/cgi-bin/u ... 5&t=000414

He's not joking. He's a Waterfowler and honestly hates centerfire rifles and rifle hunters... or at least wants to CONTROL them... Dictatorial Prig.
C2N14... because life is not energetic enough.
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
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Mike D.
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Post by Mike D. »

We are smack dab in the middle of the Northern, or "Pinnacles" condor range, and I have absolutely NO intention of letting my old guns sit idle. The gates are locked and NO PERSON(S) may enter uninvited. :evil:
"Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale, and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled or hanged"....President Abraham Lincoln
LeverBob
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Barnes & other solid bullets may not be legal

Post by LeverBob »

I can't remember where I read this & correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe there a traces of lead in these bullets. If so, then they would fall under the stature & be illegal.

Help me out boys! :?

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Hank Dodge
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Post by Hank Dodge »

Where do I find a link to what is declared "condor habitat"?? Seriously, this has got to be one of the biggest "backdoor" ways of disarming us kalifornians yet (or at least making us lawbreakers). Why is it that these laws never come up on a ballot? The people in Sacramento don't know their butt from a hole in the ground where firearms are concerned.

If they were truly worried about lead getting into the food chain, they should ban fishing. I've seen one heck of a lot more lead weights than bullets scattered around where birds feed. I don't get it, there is no factual basis behind this regulation as far as I can see. Any legal types out there got an Idea how to fight this one??
"Shoot them big guns......you can see the holes better!"
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Modoc ED
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Post by Modoc ED »

Won't be long before some guys start shooting Condors just for revenge against the ban. I'm not for that for sure and it's definitely NOT the way to go but they better starting dressing Condors in bullet proof vests.
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Old Ironsights
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Post by Old Ironsights »

Hank Dodge wrote:..If they were truly worried about lead getting into the food chain, they should ban fishing. I've seen one heck of a lot more lead weights than bullets scattered around where birds feed. ...
They have banned lead sinkers in some places...
C2N14... because life is not energetic enough.
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!
Scott64A
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Post by Scott64A »

California is so GAY.

I hope it falls into the Pacific, and takes all the pie-in-the-sky ecotopians with it.

All those with sense would be spared.

Now, is condor territory anywhere near the realm of the Bloods and Crips?

They sure posess plenty of firepower, and I'll bet they don't give a flip about the environment.
95fan
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Post by 95fan »

This is very frustrating, kalifornia just keeps getting worse and worse. There is just not enough information being fed down the pipeline for us to understand this outrage yet. I have heard conflicting info on affected areas, rimfire loads and shotgun shells. I wish the state would come out and tell us what the deal is. At least then we could figure out how it will afect us for sure in stead of just speckulating about it.

Rant over, I'm off my soapbox now.

FWIW if I did not have the Job I do now with the oppurtunities for continued education and advancement that it provides I would have left this state years ago and never looked back.
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Scott64A
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Post by Scott64A »

The longer you stay, the more taxes you pay them, and the more harm they do to YOU.

-Just a happy little thought.
The Lewis
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Post by The Lewis »

Perhaps you California boys should band together and challenge this thing in the courts. Plus, it seems odd to be able to ban lead bullets without a suitable alternative.
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Post by gary rice »

i live in this god forsaken place and i would be more than willing to participate in some kind of class action challenge.
The Lewis wrote:Perhaps you California boys should band together and challenge this thing in the courts. Plus, it seems odd to be able to ban lead bullets without a suitable alternative.
g rice
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