New Zealand shooting.

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AJMD429
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New Zealand shooting.

#1 Post by AJMD429 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:53 am

This article claims New Zealand's gun laws are "considered more relaxed than many other countries outside the United States..." :roll:

https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/on ... 514l6.html

Thst say that is because the 'majority' of guns there are not registered. Yeah, but their laws SUCK, if you read through the article. It is a typical "gun ownership by permission and after background check only" nation, from what the article said. "Self defense is not considered a proper reason to own a firearm".....sorry but I don't consider that kind of government legitimate, and would expect sensible citizens to overthrow it forthwith. But they won't; even in the U.S. I'd bet that we have become too docile to push back at laws like that, even at the ballot box - it sure holds true in a bunch of states like Illinois and New Jersey and California. I guess even in New Mexico the laws are not gun-friendly.

I guess if the laws in New Zealand were more strict, the heavily armed (both bombs and guns) terrorists would have decided not to kill all those people, because they either couldn't figure out how to evade the law and get guns anyway, or would have decided that although they were comfortable committing mass murder of innocents, they weren't comfortable breaking gun laws..... :roll:

Wouldn't it be MORE sensible and logical for the 'journalist' to note that concealed carry, or even possession of a gun outside the home 'for self defense' is prohibited....?
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Re: New Zealand shooting.

#2 Post by gamekeeper » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:38 am

My son GKjr recently came back from 12 months in NZ, he was pleased to find that unlike the UK there seemed to be a more relaxed attitude to firearms. He had a visitors gun licence and was able to use rifles and shotguns for hunting.
I agree with the Doc. the law that denies owning a firearm for self defense goes against human rights when people who do not obey any laws are the threat.
I guess if my son returns to NZ he won't find the relaxed attitude anymore, it will be no different to the UK, thanks to knee jerk politics.
Prayers sent to the innocent caught up in this.
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Re: New Zealand shooting.

#3 Post by Old No7 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:04 am

gamekeeper wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:38 am
I agree with the Doc. the law that denies owning a firearm for self defense goes against human rights when people who do not obey any laws are the threat.
Amen. I have to agree.

The human right to self defense is not decreed, yay or nay, by any government -- it is GOD GIVEN.

This is an excerpt from the "Freedom and The Second Amendment" essay I once wrote (as referenced in my signature line)... It starts with "Take that, and I'll use this..." comments going from rifles, to handguns, to shotguns, to bows & arrows and ends up with...

"Take those, and I will defend our freedom with my arms,

With my legs, with my blood, and with my Faith in God above.

When there’s nothing left to take, I will defend our freedom with my life."


God help us in this insane world.

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Re: New Zealand shooting.

#4 Post by Bill in Oregon » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:22 am

This seems to be the specimen responsible. Do you see a face all twisted up with hate? He reminds me of Norway's nightmare, Anders Brievik.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-47579243

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Re: New Zealand shooting.

#5 Post by BlaineG » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:05 am

This is a good time to remind people that in spite of the death and outrage Islam has foisted upon the USA, this country is still the very safest place in the world for Muslims. Period. One would think that the Muslims in this country would start to repay the consideration instead of demanding that we adopt the laws that forced them out of their old country. :evil: What a pox on the world Islam has been. :evil:
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Re: New Zealand shooting.

#6 Post by Ray » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:07 pm

In our sunday/sabbath schools we are taught to love GOD, our neighbor, and even to pray for our enemies......

In their's, they are in the third jihad with billions of kaffirs to slay (original use of the word-arabic = infidels) .

When once europe and the other areas that were once conquered during the second jihad are recaptured, then the plan is for a fourth jihad on the western hemisphere. Already millions centered in toronto and our midwest. This is real !
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Re: New Zealand shooting.

#7 Post by AJMD429 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:00 pm

Wow, I'm relieved....I thought it was MY fault, since I belong to the NRA, and THEY are usually the cause of violent crime.

CNN has figured out that is it NOT my fault, it is indeed Donald Trump's fault....!

Breitbart aided him, of course, along with all the other 'right-wing' (i.e. anything non-Marxist) culprits....

https://www.breitbart.com/the-media/201 ... w-zealand/

If they just had MORE 'reasonable' gun control laws, this clearly would NOT have happened....

per https://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment ... -massacre/

"The University of Sydney’s GunPolicy.org describes New Zealand’s gun control as “restrictive,” because owning guns in that nation is not a guaranteed right but a privilege extended by the government.

Moreover, before legally owning a gun, residents must acquire a license. The acquisition of that license involves passage of a background check that “considers criminal, mental health, medical, addiction and domestic violence records.” Third party references must also be provided to authorities during the license procurement process and interviews are conducted with the applicant’s immediate family.

Even after licensing, New Zealanders cannot buy a handgun or “military style” semiautomatic without providing an acceptable explanation for why they want such a firearm. Additionally, those firearms must be registered with the central government upon acquisition.

It is illegal to sell a gun to anyone without a license, which means the background checks for license acquisition are universal; they cover all gun sales and transfers. And in the event that an individual is buying a gun from a friend or neighbor instead of retail, “the buyer… is obliged to pass official background checks before taking possession.” Also, “the number and type of firearms which can be sold by a licensed gun dealer to a single gun owner is limited to one pistol, military style semi-automatic firearm, or restricted firearm per acquisition permit.”

Further, gun show sales are highly regulated in New Zealand."
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Re: New Zealand shooting.

#8 Post by JerryB » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:36 pm

It will be interesting to see what our members from there have to say.
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Re: New Zealand shooting.

#9 Post by FWiedner » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:18 pm

BlaineG wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:05 am
This is a good time to remind people that in spite of the death and outrage Islam has foisted upon the USA, this country is still the very safest place in the world for Muslims. Period. One would think that the Muslims in this country would start to repay the consideration instead of demanding that we adopt the laws that forced them out of their old country. :evil: What a pox on the world Islam has been. :evil:
Muslims don't come here to be safe. They don't come here be Americans. They don't believe in our way of life.

They come here to spread jihad. They come here to grow the vast army that they have already infiltrated inside our borders. They come here with the ultimate goal of removing anyone who does not believe or behave as they do.

The come here because we are stupid enough to let them.

:|
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Re: New Zealand shooting.

#10 Post by gamekeeper » Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:16 am

Quote from New Zealand prime minister, I PROMISE OUR GUN LAWS ARE GOING TO CHANGE.

Well I expected that, what I don't expect is the new laws will make any sense and allow concealed carry to protect people from such attacks. Good folks will be penalized again as usual... :roll:
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Re: New Zealand shooting.

#11 Post by AJMD429 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:04 pm

Tucker Carlson has pointed out something I have seen NOWHERE else, is that the "right wing shooter" in New Zealand was (as usual with 90% of mass-shooters, since the 'left' is more inherently violent than the 'right') a LEFTIST. He scorned 'capitalism' and praised China.....hardly a 'right-winger'....

https://youtu.be/Gakh2SJ6nL0

Definitely worth watching.
Last edited by AJMD429 on Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Zealand shooting.

#12 Post by BlaineG » Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:15 pm

AJMD429 wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:04 pm
Tucker Carlson has pointed out something I have seen NOWHERE else, is that the "right wing shooter" in New Zealand was (as usual with 90% of mass-shooters, since the 'left' is more inherently violent than the 'right') a LEFTIST. He scorned 'capitalism' and praised China.....hardly a 'right-winger'....

https://youtu.be/BJMidhHT47o

Definitely worth watching.
+1 & 2, & 3.
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Re: New Zealand shooting.

#13 Post by Rube Burrows » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:41 pm

Sick individual. I watched a video this morning and he apparently had a go pro on him that filmed the whole thing. I don't agree with the Muslim Culture but detest evil people no matter who they are.

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Re: New Zealand shooting.

#14 Post by piller » Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:39 am

He is an extreme leftist Greenpeace type. That equals evil in my book.
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Re: New Zealand shooting.

#15 Post by KWK » Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:59 pm

I looked over his "manifesto." Claims that he is a white supremacist are false. Rather, his "thing" is purity in ethnicity, which he ties somewhat to race. He has no desire to enslave or conquer other races, ethnicities, or religions. He hates immigrants, truly hates them, obviously. He picked on the muslims there not because they were muslims, but because they were immigrants who in his view would not assimilate and were thus to be treated as invaders.

He likened himself to Nelson Mandela, a terrorist who sought to overthrow rule by a foreign culture. I wonder if he'd applaud Aussie aboriginals bombing whites in Sydney?

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Re: New Zealand shooting.

#16 Post by Griff » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:05 pm

Griff,
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Re: New Zealand shooting.

#17 Post by AJMD429 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:40 pm

....and this....
https://www.fort-russ.com/2019/03/flore ... tic-story/

....and this interesting comment.....

"When a muslim murders 49 gay people in a Florida night club, the community immediately rallied around the mosque and muslim community he hailed from. There were repeated admonishments to warn against a backlash, and remind people how peaceful muslims are.

On the flip side, when a terrorist shoots up a mosque full of worshipers, the whole community is blamed and punished collectively.

Has it occurred to anyone that THIS is what the shooter was aiming to expose?

If so, progressive culture has played right into his hands and given him exactly what he wanted. He’s exposed that some religious inspired murders are more outrageous than others.

What he’s really exposed is that the world has grown 100% complacent about Muslims murdering people. It doesn’t even shock the senses anymore. It’s only when the reverse happens that we feel outrage, precisely because it’s out of the ordinary
"

(from https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/0 ... der-video/)
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Re: New Zealand shooting.

#18 Post by wecsoger » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:12 pm

I looked over his "manifesto." Claims that he is a white supremacist are false.

EXACTLY! He put out pages of why he was doing this, essentially 'gaming' the news media and creating an event for today's internet age.

And the media is completely ignoring it, since it doesn't fit their narrative.

I swear to dog this is right out of an episode of Max Headroom and the next thing we need to expect are 'blip-verts'.

(realizing this is a pretty arcane cultural reference, but a lot of you will get it)

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Re: New Zealand shooting.

#19 Post by Carlsen Highway » Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:38 am

The guy shot at a range near me. He came across to fellow shooters as normal, open, chatty and balanced. He didn't have any off the wall political opinions that he expressed.

The irony of it all, is that he was an immigrant himself. He was Australian. Supposedly came over here two years ago just to 'train' to do this. (A15's and AK's are illegal in Australia) He then discovered there are 'soft' targets here in NEw Zealand and an immigrant community he could victimise, so he decided to stay and do it here. He's a good reason to be against immigration himself.

The whole country basically came to a stand still over it and has been in mourning and shock. I have seen the first couple of minutes of his horrific video he made while he was doing it, and then I turned it off. I didn't need to watch a video of harmless and bewildered woman and children being shot to death in their church.

The idea that he was targeting Muslims for some political reason, doesn't play the same way here as it seems to have done in other countries. We only have a small Muslim community (60,000 total I think) and most of them are from Indonesia. The general feeling is that these people were New Zealanders and that this was an attack on our community.

Virulent anti-immigration feeling is more an Australian thing - but that figures as the shooter was Australian.

But I do not for a second believe his 'manifesto' so called, or islamaphobia was the reason for this. It just suited his purpose. This young man wanted to be famous and he wanted to end his own life, but without actually killing himself. This is a form of suicide for him - his life is over, and at the same time he gets a lot of attention.

The first attitude towards him was that he should not be granted what he wanted. The general idea was his name should never be spoken, his image never shown In the media. As a consequcne, his manifesto has been banned and removed from NZ public view, and his video removed from any server that can be viewed from NZ at least. He now will be representing himself in court, another attention seeking move.

As one result of this - they are changing the law so no one can have AR15, AK47 or any form of semi auto rifle that is capable of taking a detachable magazine holding greater than 5 rounds. They are considering (for what its worth) gun registration, although that would have made no difference. Basically, this has opened the doors to a lot of firearms law change that the anti- gun element (mostly the NZ Police) have wanted for years but couldn't get traction on.

Pistols are unaffected and bolt actions, lever actions etc are not either.

The AR15 had been getting very popular in the last ten years, there will be a lot of Kiwi shooter hurt by this, to no real purpose, and it will cost the government 100 million or more in buy back money.
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Re: New Zealand shooting.

#20 Post by EG73 » Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:06 am

Carlsen - interesting hearing a NZ opinion on it. It feels over here in Aus they’re kicking up a bigger thing about it than over there. And you’re right, it all played exactly how he intended with the attention and worldwide talk. His manifesto even mentions the intention of getting a gun ban in NZ!

Your comment about his “suicide without death” is something I was thinking about also recently. He spent his last years before NZ travelling the world. I believe this was done to see the sights before lock up and that he’d planned on doing this for a very long time, just wanted to live it up a bit before he never could again.

Is the NZ prison system as cushy as Australia’s?

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Re: New Zealand shooting.

#21 Post by KWK » Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:40 pm

Carlsen Highway wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:38 am
The general idea was his name should never be spoken... they are changing the law so no one can have AR15, AK47 or any form of semi auto rifle that is capable of taking a detachable magazine holding greater than 5 rounds.
I'm surprised any detachable magazine would be permitted. How does one guarantee no magazine over 5 rounds can be fitted? I thought the magazine Voldemort (He Who Must Not Be Named) had was already illegal there. Limiting repeaters to tubular or other fixed magazines seems more direct.

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Re: New Zealand shooting.

#22 Post by AJMD429 » Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:22 pm

The 'leadership' is so wrong there....

1. His name SHOULD be mentioned, in SCORN, just as with HItler.
2. His manifesto SHOULD be not only available, but posted in public - and RIDICULED.
3. Firearms laws should be REDUCED, not increased, to allow and actually ENCOURAGE, concealed carry, and
4. Those who don't carry concealed weapons should be RIDICULED, not revered, for it is concealed-carriers who will stop the next massacre, NOT 'gun laws', nor those who enforce them.
Last edited by AJMD429 on Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Zealand shooting.

#23 Post by Carlsen Highway » Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:19 am

EG73 wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:06 am
Carlsen - interesting hearing a NZ opinion on it. It feels over here in Aus they’re kicking up a bigger thing about it than over there. And you’re right, it all played exactly how he intended with the attention and worldwide talk. His manifesto even mentions the intention of getting a gun ban in NZ!

Your comment about his “suicide without death” is something I was thinking about also recently. He spent his last years before NZ travelling the world. I believe this was done to see the sights before lock up and that he’d planned on doing this for a very long time, just wanted to live it up a bit before he never could again.

Is the NZ prison system as cushy as Australia’s?
EG73 -
I think your probably right about that too.
yes prison here probably more cushier. Underfloor heating and whatnot. I understand this creature is in isolation though and will probably be for the rest of life.
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Re: New Zealand shooting.

#24 Post by Carlsen Highway » Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:54 am

KWK wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:40 pm
Carlsen Highway wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:38 am
The general idea was his name should never be spoken... they are changing the law so no one can have AR15, AK47 or any form of semi auto rifle that is capable of taking a detachable magazine holding greater than 5 rounds.
I'm surprised any detachable magazine would be permitted. How does one guarantee no magazine over 5 rounds can be fitted? I thought the magazine Voldemort (He Who Must Not Be Named) had was already illegal there. Limiting repeaters to tubular or other fixed magazines seems more direct.

KWK,

What they are doing is making any rifle capable of taking a magazine of more than 5 rounds illegal. What they means is it outlaws anything like the AR15 and AK47's, because they are capable of taking a 20 - 30 round magazine (theres a billion floating around in private hands). They are not just saying you can have an AR15 with a five round mag - the whole rifle is illegal because it can take a 30 round.
The SKS is in a grey area - it can be imported with a 5 round magazine, but people have been selling those aftermarket mags that take 30 rounds that you can fit if you have a mind to. Efftively this means the SKS will be outlawed too, they just haven't figured the right wording yet.
They are going to try and ban all semi auto rifles except for .22 rifles, by coming up with some way that a rifle could be modified to take more than five rounds - and then banning it. (Any even some police seem to think that the Ruger 10/22 will be banned as well. The police are as confused as evrybody esle. )

The NZ police have been waiting to have the political freedom to do this for a long time, and they care going to ram it down as far as they can.

Our Prime Minister is going to get a Nobel prize, even though she hasn't even really done, well, anything at all. She looked concerned I suppose.
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Re: New Zealand shooting.

#25 Post by Carlsen Highway » Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:55 am

What is worse than the gun law changes is the change of public opinion. We are the midst of a strong public negative reaction to firearms of all kinds. Courier companys are no longer carrying rifles. Advertising billboards of a young boy being taught how to shoot an air rifle are being castigated in the news, and people agree that teaching a boy to shoot is wrong. All the ranges near me have been closed down. An episode of The Simpsons played last night, and it was preceded by a public warning saying "Warning this show contains Gun Violence.""

The general public have perceived that this creature committed this act with tools that were specifically designed for doing exactly what he did with them. And they don't want them around.

I dont own any semi-auto's. I just don't have the interest. You know me, I like the .44-40. But the biggest hunting season of the year starts this weekend, the rut period for the red deer'. Nearly every deer hunter will be out as they are every year, but I fully expect to be hassled by the police if they come across me and I am wearing camo.

The police rang me this morning to see if I knew the bad guy, who was a member of my shooting club. I did not know him but I am guilty by association because I own a firearm.

I am going hunting tomorrow. I am taking my .30-06 and a canoe and I will be in the mountains for two weeks. They can all go to hell.
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Re: New Zealand shooting.

#26 Post by AJMD429 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:56 am

The problem is, they are not going to hell, they are creating hell right here on earth, and the rest of us have to suffer along with them, if we can't muster enough resistance to stop them.

The Second Amendment is only twenty-seven words on paper, but has been the only barrier in many cases to prevent such dangerous nonsense in the U.S..
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Re: New Zealand shooting.

#27 Post by KWK » Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:32 am

Carlsen Highway wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:54 am
What they are doing is making any rifle capable of taking a magazine of more than 5 rounds illegal.
Okay, I misinterpreted what you had first written.

Seems the original Ruger .44 Carbine will be desirable there. Off the top of my head, I can't think of another semi that will pass the law.

Your comment above says "any rifle" but you may mean "any semi-auto rifle." Perhaps not, though, since one can do a lot of damage fast with a Remington 7600, for which large magazines are available.

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Re: New Zealand shooting.

#28 Post by AJMD429 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:39 am

Maybe a Garand....

However, instead of figuring out 'loopholes' (which will get so-labeled, and eventually legislated against), the gun owners in New Zealand need to descend massively upon the legislature and DEMAND that the gun laws be loosened, not made more restrictive.

However, chances of that are close to zero, and unless it were truly massive and continuous, it would fail.

That's what happens if there is no Second Amendment, and no political 'leaders' with any sense of principle or honor.

You, like every other nation without a Second Amendment, are screwed.... :|
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Re: New Zealand shooting.

#29 Post by JerryB » Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:58 pm

Carlson Highway, thanks for all the good reports. I knew that you would get the real story to us.
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Sixgun
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Re: New Zealand shooting.

#30 Post by Sixgun » Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:32 pm

Carslen Hoghway...thanks for the insight.....

The apples are picked from the tree one by one until the only apple left is the one at the top...the US of A. There's a hoard of children with sticks trying to knock that last apple down. Finally, a youngster, who is very innovative and deceitful , tapes two sticks together lengthwise hollers to the crowd, "I'll get the food for you" . The children voluntarily move to the side and let him through and he smacks that apple to pieces. His name is Muhammad.----6
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AJMD429
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Re: New Zealand shooting.

#31 Post by AJMD429 » Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:40 am

Sixgun wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:32 pm
Carslen Hoghway...thanks for the insight.....

The apples are picked from the tree one by one until the only apple left is the one at the top...the US of A. There's a hoard of children with sticks trying to knock that last apple down. Finally, a youngster, who is very innovative and deceitful , tapes two sticks together lengthwise hollers to the crowd, "I'll get the food for you" . The children voluntarily move to the side and let him through and he smacks that apple to pieces.....His name is...
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mickbr
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Re: New Zealand shooting.

#32 Post by mickbr » Sat Mar 30, 2019 11:18 pm

NZ has limited sctructures to resist what's coming. They mostly only had good gun laws like Australia because everyone left them alone. Now the crunch comes it isn't just their leaders they are fighting, the real push comes from international lobbying, UN, world media, even US politicians lined up to get involved. When they bring that much power and money to bear on a small population country like Aus and NZ they can't win, small countries only stay afloat by towing the line. I feel bad for NZ guys, especially since if it was just their anti-gunners they were fighting they would have a chance. But it aint. They got every left wing billionaire from the US to Europe lining up to jump them and they don't even realise it yet.

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