Paco Kelly's Leverguns.com

Bryan Austin

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ci0S2Yg6lkjq3Am7ZTDv8-4RbSeXKMCZn1DIe1qRl5UR7KjPHidjqs0DEkjpYcoc5jO_fF5MHaTadTM2NOW9S-6VK3N6quevAidGKxwSwCxqYEeQsRQ=w1280 Winchester 44-40/Starline 44-40 https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_1n7xrvhSkv1OMBAbBOzg4PgDAvv-yAIYIb1tBG75YXE01EYD8uENkDB1TaNMD9uc6c_LQVjf0rui...

Bryan Austin

Hmm, so what i get from that is standard 44 mag load data can be used in a 44wcf as long as its in a 92 or stronger action. Is that right? frankly I'm pretty sure the 44-40 brass isn't nearly as strong as 44 mag..... :o Does not necessarily matter. The 44 Magnum was designed for revolvers, not rifl...

Bryan Austin

https://sites.google.com/view/44winc...y-at-200-yards

Did this 200 yard target this morning with normal Winchester 73' loads.

Bryan Austin

Thank you Bryan, but it would not require any modification to a phone. The strain gauge amplifier board would just plug into the mic jack with a short cable. With a EE friend of mine, I'll be playing with this over the winter. If we get it working, I can mail you a duplicate of the amplifier board,...

Bryan Austin

Griff wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:15 pm Missed that one... I was busy over in Uncle Sam's southeast Asian games... But until I bought my Lightning (Colt rifle replica), I've never owned a .44-40... And won't be using any heavy loads in it, anyway!

Glad ya made it home....

Yeap, not a good idea!

Bryan Austin

Galloway wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:54 pm Hmm, so what i get from that is standard 44 mag load data can be used in a 44wcf as long as its in a 92 or stronger action. Is that right?

Take a look at what Larry Gibson has been working on. https://sites.google.com/view/44winches ... rry-gibson

Bryan Austin

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Bryan Austin

KWK, I catually do recall Jim talking about making a module out of an iphone but he was trying to keep the cost down as low as he could. I never thought to ask more questions about the iphone mod. I do have a few spare phones if you get a hankering to modify one.

Bryan Austin

Haven't seen one since 1983. I bet new ones are nice with all this technology!!

Bryan Austin

I'm sorry, oh brave Bryan, but the doctor is correct. Time is involved, and we don't have enough information here. We could figure out how much energy was used to move the hammer back (force times distance), but the energy to do that could come from a brief pulse of high force or a longer pulse of ...

Bryan Austin

and my kinetic energy Yeap, that is certainly there somewhere. Here is the same load in the test barrel, it did not move at all...and the firing pin, in this case the punch, was free to exit the housing. Energy is being transferred somewhere in there. VIDEO - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-NZFhk...

Bryan Austin

Bryan, I looked at your photos from this morning of the plate with 4, 5, and 6 gr of charge. It looks as if the primer was on the plate in all 3 tries. If so, I can't conclude bolt thrust is zero, unless there is something about the plate or it's motion that I'm missing. There are two gas pistons a...

Bryan Austin

Thanks Bryan for giving away knowledge that was gained from hours of dedicated work....I find it interesting....the firearm manufacturers know these things as they have the brightest minds and equipment for the testing but they keep us like a mushroom, "in the dark and feed us HRC." Some ...

Bryan Austin

... new 73's are offered in 44 Magnum using the same parts for other calibers.. Factory 240gr 44 Magnum loads would certainty be safe in the 44 Magnum 73's. I've exchanged messages with guys who own .44 Mag '73's and they seem happy with them. I asked one of the importers what they'd seen over they...

Bryan Austin

Thank you Bryan....I'm reading......your experiments showed me you reached about what is a maximum load for an original 1873.....The ballisticians who write loading manuals must know the point where bolt thrust actually starts....explains why I was getting case separations with 10 of unique in an o...

Bryan Austin

This will be my last post. This is 8.6gr of Unique with a 220gr 43-214A. Bullet penetrated 5" of pine board at 16 feet. 1 piece of 1" thick plywood followed by a 4x4 post. Bullet struck second 4x4 board but remained in first one. I added this information because 8.6gr is my normal revolver...

Bryan Austin

6gr Unique. Rather than keep posting more of the same, here is the blast plate with fresh paint showing the contact. The plate is slightly angled when clamped in place (typically I let it float) so the top part of the case head hits first. This time there is a bit more evidence of the top part of th...

Bryan Austin

5gr of Unique did not do much more.

Unique5grSecondary1.jpg

Unique5grSecondary.jpg

VIDEO - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4ENVK5q8j0

The case head really did not contact the blast plate, only the primer.

Bryan Austin

KWK, Just for you I just made this video. Again it is 4gr of Unique with a 220gr bullet. The video, in your defense, this time shows slight aft thrust BUT look at the rest of the story. Before testing I gave the blast plate a fresh light coat of flat black paint. With the paint still wet, but the pa...

Bryan Austin

In all your tests, the primer has reached the blast plate. Clearly, then, there is thrust on the bolt at these pressures. I think that at the minimum, the force off the primer will be peak pressure times the area over the ID of the primer cup. I suspect the area at the OD of the primer cup is close...

Bryan Austin

I tested a few more shots yesterday evening with the same results. What I can not do is test at what pressures the cases expand and to what pressures the bolt is subject to. If the case does not expand and the case thrusts back into the bolt, one would think the amount of pressure created in the cha...

Bryan Austin

Bryan, Thanks a lot for taking the time and energy to post this......I call these posts "a post of substance" and not a post where the title line is "What Color Socks Do You Wear When Buying A Loaf Of Bread?" I could be wrong but is the end of your punch rounded out and polished...

Bryan Austin

This test was performed using 6.4gr of Trailboss. I chose this load because it gave me the lowest pressure recordings of my handloads which were higher than Winchester Super-X hunting loads and Magtech Cowboy loads. 6.4gr, 220gr 43-214A lead bullet 7,224 psi @ only 925 fps...but we are focused on pr...

Bryan Austin

Stand-By to Stand-By....I have results!!!!!! Just finished testing a nice cowboy load, results as follows....photos and videos later!!! 6.4gr Trailboss Case thrust against "bolt", but very little. firing pin (punch) was kicked aft about 1.5", case moved aft out of chamber about 1/8&qu...

Bryan Austin

Sixgun wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:05 pm Good thing you and I are not neighbors.....man! We'd have an underground shooting facility doing all sorts of devious experiments... ----6

Yeap!! Boy I do miss my land in Georgia. Use to shoot right out of the garage!!

Bryan Austin

One of the items I've always wanted to know is "what is the pressure level" when thrust becomes a meaningful force? I understand that there are many variables to be counted as in the most important is case design as in taper and quickness of the powder burn rate.....then comes thickness i...

Bryan Austin

Very interesting Bryan......so no thrust..yet......you got big ones! Whatever you do don't experiment with 50 BMG primers like I did years ago....after drilling a hole in the side of the brass case to empty the powder...gotta use a sharp drill bit to get through before it heats up. :D l....I put th...

Bryan Austin

Nice work. I'm surprised by what appears to be blowby at the primer. I'd have thought it would seal pretty much instantly. The issue with the seal is that the case was set with such a large headspace for demonstrational purposes. The primer almost came all the way out but was slightly held in place...

Bryan Austin

Slow motion video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3a15DELim8

Bryan Austin

Well, I tried 4gr of Unique and a 220gr 43-214A bullet. Check out the results on the website. https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester/contributors/john-kort/bolt-thrust-pressure Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ex7DM2BG30 Unique4gr43214A.jpg Case remained in chamber, primer came almos...

Bryan Austin

video link . . https://youtu.be/M9SE7x5eAqc Working my up to higher pressures. There is a reason fast draw guys use shotgun primers with wax bullets as well as enlarging the flash hole. Here you can see normal primers being used with wax bullet shoved all the way down on top of the primer. The prime...

Bryan Austin

You're a brave man, Bryan, or should I use a different adjective? :wink: That firing pin and hammer have more inertia than the typical lever action does, apparently more than the impulse from the primer can bother. I'm looking forward to your future results; please post them here. Very little tap i...

Bryan Austin

Ok...I can't add nothing but I'm learning from your writings. Extremely interesting...not the same old "what crimp do you use"...If you need an old gun to blow up or something similar, let me know...I have most calibers. My dad told me back in the thirties the neighborhood kids in the com...

Bryan Austin

Great video Bryan. I am guessing you used an empty but primed cartridge? No bullet? Suggestion, fill the empty case with styrofoam, seat and crimp a bullet in the cartridge, then repeat the test. I have a few different tests in mind just for discussions. Wax bullets, some powder and wax bullets. I ...

Bryan Austin

Then there's Ackley's experiment with an unlocked bolt in, I think it was, a 94 Win -- and I seem to recall his test has been repeated in the last decade. The numbers I got suggest the primer should have blown the bolt rearward some. Maybe it did; it's been a long time since I thumbed through his b...

Bryan Austin

It is only obvious that when only primers are shot, the primer backs out from thrust against the front of the primer picket at the flash hole. As powder and bullets are added, the same thing...this is why our revolvers get jammed sometimes buy using such "Light Loads", light enough to wher...

Bryan Austin

If there's no force on the bolt, why do the pins and holes in the '73's toggle system 'oval' over time firing heavy loads? Why are there smears on the bolt face of hot loads in a semi-auto? Ask Steve Young how many rifles and carbines he's had to repair due to bolt thrust. Because those are higher ...

Bryan Austin

If you think your 73' has been exposed to covid...err...I mean Over Pressures, there is a simple way to check for stretched toggles....or even worn out toggles from wear. There is a quick test you can perform to check your 73's bolt if you suspect the toggles are getting worn or stretched due to wea...

Bryan Austin

Oh no need to take the wrapper off. I'd hate for something to happen to the box, I'd feel real bad. It's not important...I was just gonna try to get a date off the code. Those are some nice boxes.

Bryan Austin

Well what ya know? I did find it. It led me back to your video and then to the secondary topic Lets Talk Bolt Thrust. Any chance you can post the video, youtube link no worky I have some of this loaded up on the 44-40 web site but it needs editing before I can publish it. The link will be here: http...

Bryan Austin

Ok, finally had a chance to test the .44-40 ....... a few days later than anticipated. Life gets in the way sometimes ....... Anyway, the test indicates that the case head did not make contact with the bolt. I used 2 cases with thinned rims (front) allowing for .015" headspace. I seated the pr...

Bryan Austin

Don't forget about bolt thrust in the old guns.....with light to moderate loads, there is little to none. Even my friend Jack Kort proved this... THANKS! Much of what I learned with with John's help and much input. John posted a tad on the bolt thrust but I have never been able to re-locate it. I w...

Bryan Austin

Bryan...nice write up!.....it's nice to see someone who knows what they are talking about.....I like the scope rig..... You have a good rifle that was made on a good day.....429 groove diameter you say? What do you size the bullets at? See if it will take a .431 bullet....your groups are good for 1...

Bryan Austin

Here are some photos of my Uberti 73' that have had countless SAAMI Max pressure 44-40 loads shot through it with Reloder 7. Notice the unburnt skeletons. I tested 26.5gr of Reloder 7 in the 20"x 1 1/4" MGM "test" barrel with a 217gr 43-215C lead bullet. This was test #72 of 83 (...

Bryan Austin

Back in the day they stood up very well to quite a lot of abusive type testing. Of course now we have to use more powerful ammo with all the critters wearing Kevlar. Define "more powerful ammo" in regards to this subject My definition is any modern round that the Winchester or Henry was n...

Bryan Austin

My elbow was directly underneath the forend/chamber area. I was shooting off the bench......I'm left handed so I take my right arm and swing it underneath for support. When that round went off it was what guys who were in the military say when they are in an explosion....a bright white light.... Pi...

Bryan Austin

Sixgun wrote: ↑Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:17 pm 1886 in 45-90 built in 1903 ...1800+ of warmish loads since I owned it from 1976-2003. Came apart in my hands...was told it was metal fatigue.......-----6

Brutal!!

Bryan Austin

I am looking for information and photos for the 60', 66 and 73's where folks are claiming "normal" loads are causing such issues. I should have been a bit more clear. I already have a page for blow-ups and barrel bulges from obvious over pressure loads. https://sites.google.com/view/44winc...

Bryan Austin

gamekeeper wrote: ↑Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:28 pm Back in the day they stood up very well to quite a lot of abusive type testing. Of course now we have to use more powerful ammo with all the critters wearing Kevlar.

Define "more powerful ammo" in regards to this subject

Bryan Austin

Looking for photos of such that claim stretched frames and or damaged toggles to post on the 44-40 website. Any caliber is fine as long as there are photos. Prefer descriptions of ammo, charges and powders used etc. I am looking for information and photos for the 60', 66 and 73's where folks are cla...

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