looking for the report of the reconstruction of adobe walls.

[king nero]

I once read a report where guys with computers, angular stands and a sharps (or several long guns, for that matter) tried to reconstruct the long hit that was made during the battle of adobe walls in 1874.
It was found that that shot, with a fifty-cal. Sharps, was made in an angle rather high, Dixon must have aimed for the clouds as far as I can remember.

Does someone know where I could find it, or a text fragment or some words, as I tried to google for it but didn't find it...

Many thanks in advance,

kn.

[JerryB]

Good to see you back with us. Cowboy Tutt might be able to give you an answer on that.

[Cimarron Red]

There was a three-part article on the Adobe Walls fight by Bob GLodt (I believe he was the author) in the Black Powder Cartridge News a few years ago -- I'm guessing '02 or thereabouts. I'll try to track it down further. As I recall he dealt with Billy Dixon's shot and may have tried to re-create it.

[Ben_Rumson]

FWIW @ 1500 yds. the angle for the 45-70-405 in the Sandy Hook tests was 5d 20' 4"

[Cimarron Red]

The Bob Glodt articles were in the Summer, Fall and Winter 1998 issues of the BPCR News (Vols. 22,23 and 24). In the final installment Glodt offers an analysis of Dixon's shot and takes some measurements of the surrounding bluffs, but does no shooting.

Here's a link to a Mike Venturino article entitled How Far Will a Sharps Shoot? describing tests conducted at the Yuma Proving Grounds, also published in the BPCR News Volume 3 in 1993. This may be the piece you were looking for:

http://members.tripod.com/~powderburns/sharps.html


And here's the link to the BPCR News site, although the relevant back issues are no longer available:

http://www.blackpowderspg.com/0809.html

[Birdman]

Ain'y it fun to show folks what Can't be done.

[king nero]

This may be the piece you were looking for:

http://members.tripod.com/~powderburns/sharps.html

Indeed, that is exactly what I was looking for. Ain't that a nice read....

I need to get me a .50 blackpowder rifle Well impressed by what it can do.

It was about 5 degrees of elevation for a 1500 yard shot, and:

. Incidentally, five degrees of muzzle elevation can easily be gotten with only the rear barrel sight on a Shiloh Sharps.

[TedH]

That was an interesting article by Mike V, thanks for the link.

[20cows]

That is WAY cool!

[Ridgerunner]

Remember, "scientists" have proven that a bumble bee can't fly....Wish they'd tell that to all the blasted BB's that fly around my deck in the warm weather....

[Slick13]

My question is how big does a 5'8" person appear at 1500+ yards (nearly a mile)? I have no doubts a buffalo gun can shoot that far, but a man, even sitting on a horse, is going to look pretty darn small at that distance.

~Michael

[Ben_Rumson]

I read that article of MV's a few weeks ago and forgot I saved it!

[Ray Newman]

"My question is how big does a 5'8" person appear at 1500+ yards (nearly a mile)? I have no doubts a buffalo gun can shoot that far, but a man, even sitting on a horse, is going to look pretty darn small at that distance. ":

--Slick

I recall reading that:

--The Indian Dixon shot was mounted & was in a group of 2 or 3 other mounted Indians.
--Dixon claimed that it was a "scratch" -- i.e. lucky -- shot.

In any case, you hit the nail on the head -- the "target" was very small @ 1500 + yards. Most people have no idea just how small something appears @ 500 or 1000 yards....

[Griff]

My question is how big does a 5'8" person appear at 1500+ yards (nearly a mile)? I have no doubts a buffalo gun can shoot that far, but a man, even sitting on a horse, is going to look pretty darn small at that distance.

~Michael

Ain't quite the same as being there in person... but, check out the photos in Cowboy Tutt's B. Dixon Ultra Long Range Event Report. Standing on the firing line, EVERYONE asked, "just where are the Billy Dixon targets?"

Edited to give the correct link.

[Little Doc]

WHAT GRIFF SAID

[CowboyTutt]

Well, I just now clicked on this topic. I thought it was about "reconstructing" the dwelling at Adobe Walls and didn't realize it was about a re-creation of the Billy Dixon Shot! Oh well.

I didn't have a link to that article, so thanks to "Red" for posting it.

I believe the actual shot was into a group of about 15 Indians, so they would have been easier to see than the 3 mounted Indian targets we were shooting at.

I don't quite buy that it was "scratch" that Billy Dixon made that shot. He had enough expertise to make an excellent educated guess as to range estimation and where to set his sights, but he would be correct that wind conditions do make such a shot unpredictable and therefore "lucky". But under clear and still wind conditions he could have done it.

One thing I noticed at the Billy Dixon Event was that cloud cover or bright sunlight really affected where you set your sights. What was correct for overcast conditions was shooting way low in bright sunlight. Lil' Doc had an expression for this fact although I forget exactly what it was. Hopefully he will post it for us.

I also find it interesting what Mike V. reported about the 400 grain vs. 500+ grain bullets and their trajectory. Since I started with a 400 grain bullet/load and progressed to a 500 grain bullet/load, I have been suspecting that a 500+ grain bullet is sort of a "best practice" and perhaps even a necessity at 1500 yards.

Here is a link to Part One of Mic McPherson's recreation of the Billy Dixon shot.

http://www.levergun.com/articles/bdixon.htm

They have also been working for years to create the Friends of Billy Dixon Ultra Long Range Facility.

http://www.levergun.com/bdixon_range.htm

Anyhow, thanks for taking interest in one of my favorite topics.

-Tutt

[Cimarron Red]

You're welcome, Cowboy Tutt! The old expression is "light's up, sights up."

I've always believed that Dixon's shot was plausible. But, as one who has 'walked shots' in to the 1000 + meter buffalo targets at both the Ridgway (Pennsylvania) Rifle Club and the NRA Whittington Center near Raton, New Mexico, I suspect that Billy needed more than a little luck to get on/near target on the first shot. That said, I hope Dixon's shot really did occur.

[Bill in Oregon]

If any of you are ever in the Panhandle, you really should make the drive to the Adobe Walls site on the Turkey Track Ranch. Billy Dixon lies there, and he was an honorable man. I felt a real sense of "big medicine" there. My great-grandfather's ranch just a few miles up the Canadian.

[Cimarron Red]

Bill in Oregon,

I intend to do just that next spring. I've wanted to visit the site ever since I first heard of the Adobe Walls fight. And now that I live about 300 miles from there, it's much more likely I'll visit. Thanks for the reminder.

[Bill in Oregon]

Red: The turnoff is just a few miles north of Stinnett, and you wind back down south to the Canadian, emerging through cottonwoods and sunflowers to the small plain where the stores were built. Gives me chills just thinking about the clash of cultures and the brave men on both sides.

[Cimarron Red]

Bill,

Thanks for the directions. I had already checked MapQuest and it tells me that Stinnett is 320 miles from my home -- well within overnight range for me.

[CowboyTutt]

Red, if you go, please take some pictures for me? I will not be that way for a long time if ever and would like to see the place even if it seems rather plain. I will have to live vicariously through you, my friend!

-Tutt

[Modoc ED]

Red: The turnoff is just a few miles north of Stinnett, and you wind back down south to the Canadian, emerging through cottonwoods and sunflowers to the small plain where the stores were built. Gives me chills just thinking about the clash of cultures and the brave men on both sides.

EDIT: Never mind.

[Cimarron Red]

I'd be happy to do so, Tutt.

[PaulB]

I thought it was "Adobe Wells"?

There was a big write-up in Precision Shooting magazine (or maybe the sister publication, The Accurate Rifle) two or three years ago. Sorry I can't be more specific; it would take some digging to find it.

[Cimarron Red]

PaulB,

Nope, it's Adobe Walls, so called because the battle took place at the ruins of an old adobe fort originally built in 1845. The 1874 battle is rightly referred to as the Second Battle of Adobe Walls, the first battle having occurred in 1864 when a contingent of 300 volunteers from New Mexico under the leadership of Kit Carson undertook a punitive action against marauding southern plains indians. The first battle resulted in a draw.

In 1974 some traders built several stores and other buildings near the old adobe ruins to supply the needs of buffalo hunters. This was the post attacked by Quanah Parker and his followers on June 27 of that year.

This is not to say that there wasn't another fight at a place called Adobe Wells, but I'm not familiar with that one.

[CowboyTutt]

I believe that Red got it right having read of the battle involving Kit Carson, one of my hero's. Not sure about the 1974 date though!

-Tutt

[Griff]

I believe that Red got it right having read of the battle involving Kit Carson, one of my hero's. Not sure about the 1974 date though!
-Tutt

Tough crowd!!

[Cimarron Red]

Howdy, Tutt,

One of the most mysterious phenomena associated with Adobe Walls is its inexplicable tendency to visit upon many students thereof the rare malady know as dysdatia. This can cause no end of mischief when sufferers of the condition engage in mundane functions such as dating checks. It may even induce paraoxysms of a related syndrome known as nitpickia in many associates of its victims.

[CowboyTutt]

Red, you don't know it, but I'm a school psychologist who identifies and designs programs for children with disabilities. Your post just cracked me up! How did you know! I half-expected Jimmy Carter to campaign with Billy Dixon at his side!

-Tutt

[Cimarron Red]

Why, hell, Tutt! A man should be able to recognize a fellow psycho-babbler merely by exchanging posts with him. But id doesn't matter! I also suffer from Trading Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome, so be gentle. And, BTW, the latter day Jimmy Carter would have likely descended on Adobe Walls with a legion of habitators to restore the crumbling mud walls.