OT What is the correct trapdoor barrel length?

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:58 pm

Sorry for the OT post, boys, but I hope you'll let me sneak this quick question in. I'm planning to purchase an original antique Springfield trapdoor 1884 rifle in 45-70. I have different barrel lengths to choose from. One is 29.5" and the other is 32.5". Which is correct, or are both fine?

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:22 pm

32 5/8" Rifle
29 1/2" Cadet
22" Carbine

But...they also had a "Officer's Model" that had a 26 1/2" barrel and a very rare Experimental Model with a 28" barrel.

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:24 pm

Great. Thanks for the info. That clears up the different barrel lengths I've been seeing.

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:36 pm

Sorry Kirk, wasn't paying attention enough while watching CSI

The "Officer's Model" has a 26" barrel and the Experimental has a 24" barrel and the 1881 Marksman has a 28" rifle. Of course they only made 11 of the "Marksman" and 477 of the "Officers"

The one at the bottom of this picture, I've always called a "cadet" but that is because it has an added band, it is really one of the thousand "Experimental"s made in 1886. You can tell by the lack of a capped forend.

Here's a standard in the middle below:

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:00 pm

I'm looking forward to getting an original antique in my hands and practicing some 200 yard shooting.

Ben_Rumson · Post by **Ben_Rumson** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:23 pm

Heck while we're sharing...

32&5/8ths barrel

GEOFF · Post by **GEOFF** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:47 pm

Ben Rumson,

Looks like you know way more than average about Trapdoors! Hopefully with KIRK D's permission I can jump in here to increase my knowledge.

Couple of questions:

1) An old local guy was selling his personal 1884 Trapdoor a few years back. I bought it cuz the bore was excellent and he is a good guy and said it was the most accurate Trapdoor of about 8 that he had owned in his lifetime. Everything is authentic, but there is no cartouche. Somebody mustve sanded it off years ago. How much does that decrease the value???? I paid $600 and it included an original bayonet and that folding leather cartidge holder with the US on it. How badly did I do??????????

2) Everyone speaks highly of the Buffington rear sight. WHAT IS THE STRENGTH OR SELLING POINT OF THIS SIGHT?????????? Is it just because it is adjustable for windage as well as elevation. When do you stand the rear sight up and use it that way versus when it is down in more of a standard buckhorn format. ARE YOU SUPPOSE TO USE THAT LITTLE HOLE AS A PEEP SIGHT????????????????? This Buffington sight confuses the HECK OUT OF ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have just lately begun to construct blackpowder 500gr. loads for this old baby.

Any suggestions or observations about the 1884 with the Buffington sight would be appreciated. Thanks for the pictures of yours!

Geoff

Ben_Rumson · Post by **Ben_Rumson** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:41 pm

GEOFF The 1884 standing against the fence is mine.. the other pics were posted by Old Time Hunter ... Here is a link to just about any info you'd want on the guns... http://www.trapdoorcollector.com/ Even w/o a cartouche you got a good deal on your TD Yes collectors like them with it but for a nice shooter grade gun why pay an extra hundred bucks or more for a cartouche... I got a good deal on mine years ago..I got it because I thought it was a neat old gun..I'm not a collector of TD's but I like to shoot old military type single shot muskets with reduced smokeless loads.. I don't know what collectors think of the Buffington but I like it because it's windage adjustable by turning a knob..The hole in the elevation slide is an aperture sight.. not a very good one IMHO..

don Tomás · Post by **don Tomás** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:53 pm

GEOFF wrote: 2) Everyone speaks highly of the Buffington rear sight. WHAT IS THE STRENGTH OR SELLING POINT OF THIS SIGHT?????????? Is it just because it is adjustable for windage as well as elevation. When do you stand the rear sight up and use it that way versus when it is down in more of a standard buckhorn format. ARE YOU SUPPOSE TO USE THAT LITTLE HOLE AS A PEEP SIGHT????????????????? This Buffington sight confuses the HECK OUT OF ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Geoff

Hey Geoff,
Here's a pretty good explanation of the sight from the Army Manual:

Directions for the Buffington Rear Sight
From the 1898, "Description and Rules for the Management of the Springfield Rifle, Carbine and Army Revolvers"
(it's about a quarter of the way down)

I had switched to the M-79 buckhorn sight on my carbine, but recently had to switch back to the Buffington for the peep sight. Stupid bifocals and stupid eyes almost 60 yrs old was the stupid problem. FYI - if the windage adjustment won't move, don't force it. Some of the Army Commanders had them pinned in place so the guys couldn't fool with them.

Tom

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:24 pm

I'll tell ya what, I am at a quandry as to which is better, the M79 or '84 Buffington, but they both beat the heck out of the original '73 step ladder sight that has absolutely no provision for windage. On my '84 model carbine, the second from the bottom on the top picture above, I have a 3/8" high (off the barrel) front sight. Did that because my point blank is now 50 yards, anyways, I flip the Buffington up and use the lower open sight w/right lower arrow pointed to the 2 marker on the right scale and it is dead nuts on @ 100, move 'er up to the 3 and I hit 150 square....wind depending of course and providing I maintain 1200fps with a 500 grain bullet. My '73 rifle shoots high @ 100 w/M79 sight in the point blank position, but right on at 125, flip 'er up and it's pretty much dead on @ 200 on the lowest setting.

GEOFF · Post by **GEOFF** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 10:58 pm

Ben R. and Don Tomas,

Just want to thank you guys for the links and information. I will have to digest all of that for a while. I'm learning bullet casting and black powder reloading all at the same time. Bit of a learning curve.

Got a Shiloh coming in about 18 months but thought I'd start learning on my Trapdoor.

Thanks again!

Geoff

Yance · Post by **Yance** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:20 pm

Geoff;

If you haven't a;ready, either buy or try to borrow "The Book" written by Spence Wolf on loading original cartridges for the Trapdoor.

http://www.the45-70book.com/

While you're there go ahead and order at least the expander and compression plug and the die body, or their complete Lee die set.

I don't resize my cases like Spence recommends, just iron out the last of the crimp, prime, charge, compress, and finger seat the bullet. I then use just enough taper crimp, (not roll crimp like most dies other than Lee), to hole the bullet in place. They will still turn in the case.

My original '84 is about 90% and I had to give $800.00 for it last year.

You're gonna LOVE makin' smoke with yours.

GEOFF · Post by **GEOFF** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:08 am

Yance,

Thankyou sir for the additional suggestions!

Boy do I have a lot to learn. I got a powder drop from Shiloh and shot a few BP cartridges, enough to see that it is addictive. Now the farm work is heating up and spare time is getting shorter.

Thanks for the tip on the book too.

Geoff