OT - Winchester 231 in .357Mag

Scott64A · Post by **Scott64A** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:43 pm

I was reading a handloader's guide and the author was touting the use of this powder for pretty much any and all loads for the .357Mag and .38 special.

Any of you have experiences with this powder?
I'd love to keep some on hand if it really is a good powder for a wide range of bullet weights.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:22 pm

I started reloading on Winchester 231. It is a flexible handgun powder. Have loaded a slew of .44 Magnum, .357 Magnum, .38 Special and 9mm using this powder.

It is an excellent powder to have around, IMHO!

hartman · Post by **hartman** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:27 pm

I use w-231 with my .45 Colt and really like it, it meters well and seems to give good velocity over a wide range.

Hartman

Scott64A · Post by **Scott64A** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:46 pm

It's settled then.
-all I needed was to hear more to back up the claims of versatility.
Of course, I'll see if anyone else has any other input here.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:51 pm

Scott,

I am a big fan of Win 231. I've been using it for many many years. I've used it in every handgun caliber I load for and never had one bit of trouble with it.
The pre Hodgdon Winchester data booklets have 231 charges listed for all the bullet sizes Winchester loaded. I've used it only on the 158gr lead and jacketed bullets. Oh and some 160gr NYCLAD bullets. It works very good.
The loads listed in the Win booklets are full house loads pressure wise, so they aren't for the timid.

If you don't have any of the Win data booklets I can scan the .357 data in for you. Let me know.

Joe

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:58 pm

Yes, I have used it a lot. Espacally in the 38 Special and 45ACP, However I did switch to Bullseye for a lot of shooting because it goes a little farther. Still yet one of my favorite loads for the 38 Special case used to be a heavy load of 231 behind a 175gr cast flatpoint bullet. It was a magnum load but I used 38 cases, because they ejected quicker out of my Smith and Wesson L=Frame. The load was off the page for a 38 and should never be used in a .38 but worked fine in the .357 L-Frame. That's why I am not going to list it here, but it was also an accurate load and I used it for both IPSC Revolver Division, and NRA Hunter Silhouette.

Slick · Post by **Slick** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:27 pm

WW231 is an excellent powder in .32acp .380acp and 9mm. I also load Unique in these same rounds. My feeling is that WW231 would work OK in the larger rounds like .357mag & .44mag, but that there are "more optimum" powders to use that have a slower pressure curve. That said, I have not tried WW231 in the larger calibers..

It's been my experience that the powders which perform best (in any given shell) is the one that comes closest to filling all of the space in the shell under the bullet while leaving the least amount of empty space.

Also since I load my .357mag & .44mag to shoot well in either pistol or rifle, I've found that 2400 (a slower powder) gives more uniform results out of the longer barrels. YMMV

Ram Hammer · Post by **Ram Hammer** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:50 pm

I've used 231 in 9mm, 40 S&W, 38 SPL, 357 and 44 Mag. All of these loads have been slightly reduced below what the manual suggests. All I really want from them was to cycle the action on auto pistols. The revolvers only had to hit near point of aim with the lighter load. Good metering powder with a lot of versatility.

PS - If you cannot find 231 in stock, try HP-38. THe manuals show it to be within 0.1 gr on all loads to 231. I've been told they are the same powder. I still apply the usual safety/load development rules but they do come in pretty close.

Scott64A · Post by **Scott64A** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:48 pm

Awesome feedback.

I believe I'm going to try the 2400.

After posting this same question on the handloads.com forum, (my cheating heart, I know...) I found a lot of positive feedback for this powder. I can always scale it back a touch to keep things comfortable without squibbs.

I, too like a powder that nearly fills the case, it is the best way to enhance a round by providing for even detonation.

Thanks, again!

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:58 pm

I, too like a powder that nearly fills the case, it is the best way to enhance a round by providing for even detonation.

Scott, smokeless gun powder does not "detonate" in the case, it burns.

Joe

Scott64A · Post by **Scott64A** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:33 pm

touche!

And yes, I would love to have the Winchester load listings!

stretch · Post by **stretch** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:47 pm

WW 231 is a terrific pistol powder. I've used it in 38 Special,
9mm, 45ACP, 10mm, and 41 Magnum. As mentioned above,
it meters beautifully.

You could also try 2400, H110, WW296 in the 357 Magnum,
I believe. 2400 is an extremely versatile powder - if you
didn't want to buy and/or stock a bunch of different powders
for magnum handguns, 2400 might be my first choice.

Try 231 for your lighter loads in 38 Special, and any of the
others for your magunm loads.

Junior · Post by **Junior** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:56 pm

Surplus WC820 is a good medium-high-load to heavy-load powder in 357 mag rifle. Dirt cheap, too, if you can find it. It didn't work for me with 38 special-level loads. Without pressure, it gives high extreme spreads, squib loads, etc.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:47 pm

Scott64A wrote:touche!

And yes, I would love to have the Winchester load listings!

Scott, you got mail.

Joe

Scott64A · Post by **Scott64A** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:51 pm

Got it, Joe, and thanks.

I'm leaning heavily towards 2400.

WyrTwister · Post by **WyrTwister** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:20 am

Junior wrote:Surplus WC820 is a good medium-high-load to heavy-load powder in 357 mag rifle. Dirt cheap, too, if you can find it. It didn't work for me with 38 special-level loads. Without pressure, it gives high extreme spreads, squib loads, etc.

Check out

http://www.castbullet.com/reload/wc820.htm

God bless
Wyr

Ram Hammer · Post by **Ram Hammer** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:28 pm

If you can't find 231, you might try HP-38. All the loading manuals show the same charges within .1 or .2 grains as 231. I've had some folks tell me they are the same. I can't tell the difference. It has been a few years since I got some HP-38. Does anyone know if it is still made?

Noah Zark · Post by **Noah Zark** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:41 am

Joining the party late, but I'd like to add that W231 is the powder that I use the most. I load W231 in .32 ACP, .32-20, .380, 9mm, 38 Spl, 357 Mag (TARGET loads), 44 Mag (TARGET loads), 45 ACP/Auto Rim, and 45 Colt. Note that I load mild target loads with it in the Magnum cartridges; I do NOT load "magnum" strength loads with W231. I have some warm 9mm loads using 115 gr bullets and W231 that have been 100% reliable in my subguns.

Good stuff.

Noah

shawn45 · Post by **shawn45** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:02 am

I used the Mil surplus version of 231 for 32's,38's and 45's. I cant get that powder anymore but loved it. I am now using AA#2. I use the #2 for loads at 800-900 fps. It uses a small mount of powder compared to 2400 type powder. You can get 2-3 times the amount of loads from a pound of powder with a fast powder such as 231. I would suggest something like Unique or HS6 if you only want one powder. That being said you should buy a pound of 231 and 2400 to load with.

Terry Murbach · Post by **Terry Murbach** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:14 am

Scott64A wrote:I was reading a handloader's guide and the author was touting the use of this powder for pretty much any and all loads for the .357Mag and .38 special.

Any of you have experiences with this powder?
I'd love to keep some on hand if it really is a good powder for a wide range of bullet weights.

I HAVE NOT READ ALL THE ANSWERS HERE BUT I CAN TELL YOU THE STATEMENT " WAS TOUTING THE USE OF THIS POWDER [ 231 ] FOR PRETTY MUCH ANY AND ALL LOADS FOR THE 357MAG AND THE 38 SPECIAL " IS NOT CORRECT BY A LONG WAYS.
THE CORRECT USAGE OF 231/HP38 IS PRETTY WELL LIMITED TO STANDARD TO MID-RANGE VELOCITY LOADS IN BOTH CARTRIDGES. THIS PROPELLENT IS WAAAAAY TOO FAST FOR HIGH VELOCITY LOADS IN THE 357MAG AND THE +P 38SPL LOADS ARE ABOUT IT WITH THE 38SPL.
THE 230P/230/231/HP38 SERIES OF PROPELLENTS WAS DEVELOPED TO LOAD STANDARD CARTRIDGES AT THEIR STANDARD VELOCITIES AND TO DO SO AS CHEAPLY AS POSSIBLE WHILE CHEWING AS DEEPLY AS POSSIBLE INTO THE MARKET PLACE OWNED BY THE PROPELLENT, BULLSEYE.
MY CURRENT KEG OF " COMMERCIAL 231 " HAS GONE FROM 50lbs TO 30lbs STRICTLY FROM USE IN THE 32LONG, 32MAG, 38SPL, 44RUSSIAN, 44SPL ETC. I DO NOT AND WILL NOT PLAY WITH IT IN THE BIGGER " MAGNUM " CARTRIDGES. THERE ARE FAR BETTER PROPELLENTS FOR SUCH USAGE.

Charles · Post by **Charles** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:00 pm

I am glad Terry came along injected some reality into this thread. 231 is a flatten ball power just a hair slower than Bullseye and has the same applications.

231 will work just fine for target to mid-range 38 Special load, even if those loads are put up in the longer magnum case.

But..but if you try and produce magnum velocity and pressure you are skating on thin ice. Because this power is so fast, if you are near the red line, a small variation in powder charge can put you in the danger zone.

I use lots of 231 for target velocity loads in the 38 Special and 45 ACP cartridges.

I would not use any powder faster than Unique or AA5 for magnum loads in the .357. But even then I would choose 2400. AA9 or HC110 over the slower powders.

Any writer who touts 231 as a do-all pistol powder is not being responsible.

Noah Zark · Post by **Noah Zark** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:11 pm

Good point, Charles. I should clarify my post, then.

I use W231 for TARGET and CAS-type loads, not "magnum" loads.

Noah

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:27 pm

The reality is, if you follow proper load data such as that in the Winchester data books you're OK.
If you are careful and make sure you have one and only one charge in each case you're OK.
If you keep the bullet weights in the right category, you're OK.
And if you do this 231 will produce magnum 357 loads.

If you don't do this, you're gonna have problems.

Joe

Charles · Post by **Charles** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:58 pm

Mr Miller.. You can of course load 357 Magnum round to full magnum power with 231. But, there is no room for error. All of us maker errors from time to time and so it is best to use a powder that has a more forgiving nature at high end pressure.

OT - Winchester 231 in .357Mag

OT - Winchester 231 in .357Mag

Re: OT - Winchester 231 in .357Mag