Anyone here shoot a military irons-only rifle match?

[Bill in Oregon]

I was chatting with a guy yesterday who had just finished shooting his stock 1903-A3 with sling from prone. I love the old school way, although getting into and out of prone is no picnic for my partially rebuilt lower back.
We got to talking about getting together a military rifle match at our range, which has target positions at 100, 200 and 300. I can't shoot open irons worth diddly these days, but an 03-A3 or a Lee Enfield No. 4 Mark 1 would be good choicecs for my eyes. Could also try a 1917 Enfield but affordable specimens with perfect bores are tough to find any more.
Just wondering if anyone else here runs one the old warriors in informal competition -- or would you if you had the chance?

[Old No7]

Hello Bill:

I haven't done it in years, but one of the best ones I ever ran was in my other club further Down East here in Maine, where we shot prone and offhand relays at 200 meters (as the target butts were setup for IHMSA silhouette). At that club, 50% of the guns on the line would be m/96 Swedish Mausers, and typically 3 of the top 5 shooters would be using a Swede. Even shooters who didn't shoot well had a blast! Around Veterans Day, we always had the best turnout and we'd shoot for meat prizes -- prime rib or hot dogs -- and the highest score picks first.

I even know of many guys who would "get a free pass" on any given Sunday by telling their wife or significant other they were "Going to a meat shoot at the club..."; and they'd spend half a day at the range by themselves, or with a few others, and then stop and buy a nice steak on their way home -- "Hey honey, look what I won for you today!"
(And to be honest, I did that once too...)

Here's a view of the targets over a prone shooter:

200 m Targets.jpg

Some shooters were better prepared than others to shoot prone:

Bob A - Prone.jpg

Here's a shooter with his Swiss shooting the old fashioned way -- standing up, but with a sling allowed:

Matt W - Offhand.jpg

The same Swiss shooter with his target, so you can see the size of the "200 meter repair centers" (I think that's what they were called):

Matt W - Target.jpg

And here's more shooters on the line -- with yours truly on the left in the Swedish WWII uniform
(I even wore the helmet when I'd drive down range on the 3-wheeler to change targets...)
shooting a Husqvarna m/38 short rifle:

DH & m38b.jpg

If the 200 meters intimidates you, try clay birds on a berm at 50 yards -- 10 shots on 10 birds -- offhand, no sling -- it's not as easy as you think.

I'd say GO FOR IT -- try it and have some fun!

Old No7

[Old No7]

...try clay birds on a berm at 50 yards -- 10 shots on 10 birds -- offhand, no sling -- it's not as easy as you think.

Just remembered...

We also did a "Mad Minute" or "Rattle Battle" once..........

* 20 rounds, bolt action rifles, fired at clay birds on a 25 yard berm AS FAST AS POSSIBLE *

It was literally a blast, and as I called the line on the 1st relay, I got to watch it all happen!

Then I shot in the 2nd relay and got to experience it from a different perspective.

Old No7

[J Miller]

I'd love to and would if I could. Although I would need help getting up from the prone position

And to be honest my old No 4 Mk 1* needs a new barrel.

Sadly, were both worn out.

Joe

[2ndovc]

I've been to Camp Perry several times for the National Matches with my M1. Really had a blast!
They have a new shoot for Vintage "As Issued, manually operated" Service Rifles. I've been trying to get up there for that one but something always comes up and I can't make it. I really want to shoot my Finn 39 Sako, of all the military surplus rifles I have, it's the most accurate.

jb

[yooper2]

The Cast Bullet Association has a couple of military classes, but all are benchrest. Still fun and the postal matches are something to do on those early mornings at the range.


Eric

[Bill in Oregon]

Old No. 7, the three most accurate military rifles I have ever shot were the Swede M96, the Swiss K-31 and the Finn/Sako-reworked Mosin-Nagant M39 in that order. I just wish I could shoot open rear sights as well as I could 20 years ago. I know guys fit the Swiss Products diopters to the K-31s -- and that some were made for the Swedes, but I am looking at shooting an as-issued rifle.

[Shasta]

We have monthly Vintage Military Silhouette matches at Hat Creek Rifle & Pistol Club in Burney, CA from April to September. Rifles are M-14 or older, with an Iron Site discipline and a Scope Sight discipline, but we do allow newer types that shoot in what we call "Open" discipline. Slings are not allowed, but shooters can shoot prone from an improvised rest (usually an ammo box with a sandbag on top) for all but Chickens, which are shot unsupported standing or sitting. My back does not allow me to go prone, so I shoot in a sitting position using an upright duffle bag for a rest.

Targets are standard size NRA animal silhouettes, Chickens at 200 meters. Pigs at 300 meters, Turkeys at 385 meters, and Rams at 500 meters.

Our best shooter uses a 1903 Springfield with a long Unertl scope on it. He has shot a 38x40, missing only 2 Chickens.

I have a 1903A3 Springfield with a Leatherwood Optics USMC scope for the Scope discipline, and an 1898 Springfield 30-40 Krag for the Iron Sight discipline. I used to also have a nice Swedish Mauser, but lost it in the 2018 Carr Fire that destroyed my home.

I shoot strictly cast lead bullets to keep expenses down, but I rarely get more than a quarter of the targets anyway.





Shasta

[Old No7]

I just wish I could shoot open rear sights as well as I could 20 years ago. I know guys fit the Swiss Products diopters to the K-31s -- and that some were made for the Swedes, but I am looking at shooting an as-issued rifle.

Easy fix -- just find a used "Lyman Hawkeye" diopter that somebody's no longer using ** to affix to your glasses (via a suction cup), as it's match legal because it doesn't alter the gun -- it works great! And it's lots cheaper than a Merit Adjustable Diopter for your glasses.

** Or check out This Similar Diopter from ebay.

Old No7

[Lefty Dude]

I shot my 1894 KRAG In the Bucky O'Neil Vintage Military Rifle Match at CAS, Winter Range several Years ago. Cast bullets only, Fun, Fun, Fun. They now include 03-A3s, and Mausers, not KAR,s.

[earlmck]

Bill, you remember those characters you met who shoot the buffaloes out to 1200 yards at the COSSA range east of Bend? Well, they do that "buffalo gun" stuff on Saturday of their match weekend. But on Friday they shoot "military bolt" with iron sights. The young guys (mid 60's and younger) mostly shoot prone but us more mature fellers who might not be able to get up from a prone position shoot off the same sticks we use for the buffalo guns. 2,3,4, and 500 yards.

I've been shooting an 03-A3 and finishing somewhere middle of the pack; Skip, our best shooter, uses a Swede; but Tommy almost never misses with his Krag. And Skip tells us that the Swedes mounted a receiver peep for match work, and that is what he uses. He assures us it is military issue and I'm believing him.

This isn't NRA anything. We just klang the gongs at the various ranges. Good fun. And I have made the interesting discovery that some glasses I had made up for computer-distance seeing work rather nicely for me when using iron sights. Sights are plenty sharp, targets kinda fuzzy but good enough. I am no longer complaining about "old eye syndrome". With my "computer glasses" I can even use open sights once again, where I thought I had lost that ability five years ago...

If you get back this way some time give a holler and we'll go out and try her out.

[DocRock]

Not military rifles, per se, but I shoot in a competition that requires US rifles of a pre-1898 design (ie replicas are fine), shooting at 200 yards, and pistol caliber at 100 yards. All irons. We shoot sticks sitting and standing at 200 and sticks and offhand at 100, sometimes rapid fire.

I started shooting a 45-70 Pedersoli RB replica at 200 yards, but it's a bit overkill for 200 yards, so moved to an 1894 Krag-Jorgensen sporter with a Lyman peep sight. Quite accurate. In the Spring, when we pick up again, I will try my Miroku made "Browning" 1895 in 30-40 now that I've got the 'Climin' Lyman' 21 replica on it.

At 100 yards I shoot my Marlin 1892 in 22lr that my Grandfather got for his 16th birthday in 1906. Fitted with a tang sight, remarkably accurate and the best trigger of any lever gun I've ever shot.

[OldWin]

I bet that would be fun. Ten years ago I probably could have done ok.
Wow No7! The ranges down your way are sure nucer than ours up here!

[Bill in Oregon]

Earl, glad you are still having fun shooting with that cast of characters at the COSSA range out toward Brothers. They were a good bunch.
No. 7, I think I may still have that Lyman diopter somewhere, from when I tried to shoot handgun silhouette from the "Frogmoor" position.

[wolfdog]

Want to mess thier heads? Show up and shoot an 1884 trapdoor shooting bp loads in 200 yard military match. I didn't win(3rd) but the guys whining about not being able to see targets was pricless. I shoot in them whenever possible, and have done well with garands, a3-03s, k-31s but have done best with m96 Sweedes.

[Bill in Oregon]

Wolfdog, 25 or so years ago I attended a BPCR match at the Douglas Ridge range southeast of Portland, Oregon. I was only an observer, but what a darned hoot! Before the guys started pulling back from the target pits to shoot their Sharps, Rolling Block and Ballard rifles to 900 yards, they held a 200-yard Trapdoor match. It was frankly an honor and a thrill to see more than two dozen Springfields belching smoke rings in the still morning air. I wish I had recorded it. The sound alone was priceless.

I've been talking to a gunsmith friend about this military match business, and he shared some intel that has me in night sweats. Bill, he said, I have several relatively pristine Pattern 14 Enfields whose chambers were demilled and welded by the UK to make them drill rifles. Criterion is now making a P-14 replacement barrel.
The P-14 had a reputation for accuracy. I think it would be a lot of fun to show up at a military match with one of these, running .303 handloads.

[Merle]

don't know if this is of interest, but there were several "postal matches" last year that were for milsurp iron sights.
I would expect more this spring/summer.

[wolfdog]

Wolfdog, 25 or so years ago I attended a BPCR match at the Douglas Ridge range southeast of Portland, Oregon. I was only an observer, but what a darned hoot! Before the guys started pulling back from the target pits to shoot their Sharps, Rolling Block and Ballard rifles to 900 yards, they held a 200-yard Trapdoor match. It was frankly an honor and a thrill to see more than two dozen Springfields belching smoke rings in the still morning air. I wish I had recorded it. The sound alone was priceless.

I've been talking to a gunsmith friend about this military match business, and he shared some intel that has me in night sweats. Bill, he said, I have several relatively pristine Pattern 14 Enfields whose chambers were demilled and welded by the UK to make them drill rifles. Criterion is now making a P-14 replacement barrel.
The P-14 had a reputation for accuracy. I think it would be a lot of fun to show up at a military match with one of these, running .303 handloads.

Would have been awesome to see all those trapdoors being shot at one time! As to the p-14 would be cool. I had one of the demilled ones but it had been turned into a 45/70.