NEW Japan 1866 Winchester ...$3200.00

[rbertalotto]

I just read in the trade magazine "SHOT" that Winchester will be offering an 1866 reproduction, fully engraved in 44-40 for $3200 in 20126

$3200 seems large to me for a repro...........

[Blaine]

I just read in the trade magazine "SHOT" that Winchester will be offering an 1866 reproduction, fully engraved in 44-40 for $3200 in 20126

$3200 seems large to me for a repro...........

That's what my Shiloh Sharps was a few years ago.... That was too much, too, but if you want something bad enough...

[Pete44ru]

.


It's not a reproduction if it's made by Winchester, silly .....



.

[J Miller]

Miroku is not Winchester
Browning is not Winchester
It's a replica made for Browning .... or whoever owns the Winchester name today.

I wonder if people would still say it was a Winchester if Uberti had bought the rights to the name Winchester and made them in Italy?
Same thing, it's replica made by a foreign company for a foreign company. Not a Winchester.

As for the price .... they'll sell everyone they make. But not to me.

Joe

[kaschi]

If they end up making a non-engraved version, it'll be a lot less than $3200.

[Hawkeye2]

Taking inflation into account you won't be able to buy a Hershey bar for for $3200 in 20126. A Miroku quality1866 will sell or it wouldn't be in the pipeline. it's not a Winchester but based on the 2 I have and the ones I have shot it will be as good as if not better,

[winchester1886]

As Olin own the WINCHESTER name and Olin is still an American company, but they choose not to manufacture firearms at this stage, and they allow someone else to use the name for big bucks I imagine, then technically the rifle is still a WINCHESTER.
If we really are going to get down to the facts, then WINCHESTER has not been WINCHESTER since 1931-32 when the WESTERN CARTRIDGE COMPANY took over what was left of WINCHESTER, and WESTERN CARTRIDGE was owned by a member of the Olin family, and they have owned the name ever since, and I don't think they will ever sell that name.

[Rusty]

It looks like they're trying to keep up with Henry.

[Aussie Chris]

I'll never own one.

[RIHMFIRE]

I'll never own a Japchester....

Exactly correct....

[Pete44ru]

It's not a reproduction if it's made by Winchester, silly .....

FWIW, my earlier post was supposed to be a friendly poke at the naïve folks that think whatever name's stamped on a gun is the actual maker.

I apologize, that I didn't phrase it in a clearer form.



.

[vancelw]

It's not a reproduction if it's made by Winchester, silly .....

FWIW, my earlier post was supposed to be a friendly poke at the naïve folks that think whatever name's stamped on a gun is the actual maker.

I apologize, that I didn't phrase it in a clearer form.



.

I have seen numerous arguments about the "Original" made by Henry Repeating Arms......I had a guy who worked in a guns store tell me he didn't want an Uberti (at 50 to 70% price) because the Henry was the real thing.

[marlinman93]

Considering I could buy a std. Uberti for around $1,000. And an engraved Uberti for well under the listed price of the Winchester. I'd save my money and just buy an Uberti. Every one I've seen was a well made copy.

[Hawkeye2]

Here is #1:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =531725298

[Ray Newman]

Just looked at the link Hawkeye2 provided.

My initial reaction was "Well that look s like a rifle a pimp would be proud to carry."

[Blaine]

Just looked at the link Hawkeye2 provided.

My initial reaction was "Well that look s like a rifle a pimp would be proud to carry."

Tell us what you really think of it.

[claybob86]

I think I'll like the non-engraved version better, especially after the brass dulls down a bit.

[missionary5155]

I think I'll like the non-engraved version better, especially after the brass dulls down a bit.

Greetings A bit of Apple Juice will hasten that color turning right fast.
Mike in Peru

[marlinman93]

Or a bottle of Birchwood Casey's Brass Black. Probably need to dilute it a bit or it will end up looking like a iron frame when you're done!

[Grandpa Ron]

It is not where it is made, it is how it it made. Technology is world wide. The same pair of hands can make junk or jewels, depending the desires of their management.

Twenty years from now, the "Winchester" will be valued, simply because it is a Winchester. Where it was made means little a generation later.

[7.62 Precision]

I'll never own one..

I own three. I own them for one reason.

They are rifles models that I love, but that I cannot practically buy originals of and use hard like I do these three. They are of the highest quality, better than most Italian clones, while falling a bit short of the fine hand-polish of the originals. They allow me to really use and enjoy the rifles that I like, without having to beat up originals, which can be given lighter use. Makes sense to me.

But you may not need to put yours through the same hard use that I do, so originals might make plenty of sense to you.

This one makes no practical sense to me, because the price is too high to make me at all interested in buying it over an original.

[Malamute]

Just looked at the link Hawkeye2 provided.

My initial reaction was "Well that look s like a rifle a pimp would be proud to carry."

I may be a pimp at heart then. I sure wouldn't mind carrying one of them around. I've come to appreciate engraving or other pretty things, like high grade wood and good checkering.

I'm also over the part about being made in japan. I've been a long time lover of 1886's. When the Browning 1886s came out, it was sacrilege that it said made in japan. I handled a few, beautiful guns, and way more gun condition wise than I'd ever be able to realistically afford in an original. Still, that infernal japan thing. Then a friend told me about a used rifle for a reasonable price. And I fell. I flippin love it, and it doesn't matter if anyone else does. After that hurdle, the 92, 95, and such that came (and went) along here and there weren't such a big deal, they were just very fine guns, that I liked very much. If anyone else doesn't care for them, no skin off my nose, just more for those of us that appreciate them I suppose. Would love to have a 73 carbine. When they get around to 66 carbines, they may be quite interesting as well. Sadly, my taste exceeds my budget by a large amount.

The Browning Citori shotguns are outstanding over/under shotguns. Made by Miroku. Same with the later Winchester shotguns, the good ones, over/unders. 101's I believe. Ive shot several of them. My prejudices have fallen away over time. Life seems too short to get wrung up about that stuff to me. I'm enjoying guns I never would have otherwise. My gain.

prej·u·dice

/ˈprejədəs/

noun
1. preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.

[Aussie Chris]

7.62 precision, that's lovely that you shoot them and love them. Good for you

I didn't mention quality/workmanship or anything. Heck, I have not even handled one of the jolly things, only an old beat up original carbine that nearly made me sick. It's my opinion, nothing more nothing less.

''Twenty years from now, the "Winchester" will be valued, simply because it is a Winchester. Where it was made means little a generation later.''

Hmmm, not too sure about this one.....I'm about a third of the age of most Winchester collectors I have met and assuming you username am probably young enough to be your grandson. Hell, what am I thinking saving my pennies for my 40-65 '86 when I could have just bought a new one....

[buckeyeshooter]

Don't know about the price, would need to be fancy for 3200, but the Japchesters are well made. I own 6 and never a problem with them. Fit and finish are well above what American gunmakers turn out these days. The 66 is a good idea. The new Wincjester 73 is fast becoming popular with the CAS shooters. The 66 is the second most popular design for that competition and is 'legal' in every class except maybe plainsman?? They will have to keep the price close to the Uberti 66 to sell a bunch of them however.

[Grandpa Ron]

While it is true that to a future Winchester collector, a foreign made Winny will never hold the charm and value of a U.S. made gun. To the average shooter the Winchester name will prevail.

Simply look at today's offerings in ascending value, Rossi, Marlin, Henry and Winchester; each has its fans and detractors but few of us would ever wear one out.

The true gun lover enjoys the nuances of a particular gun, like an art lover admiring a fine oil painting. Many simply want a gun the can afford, functions well and looks good to them.

[Griff]

I'll never own one..

Not to beat up on you, as, if I were a "collector", I'd feel the same way. But I'm not, nor are the majority of folks here, (I believe), I'm a shooter; therefore, I own two, a Browning 1886 from 1985 and a Browning 1885 from 1999, both are fine arms. I thought that also when I started in on my cowboy action shooting career (as poor as it's been lately), until I fondled the 1886, a 26" octagon bbl in 45-70. A finer bit of the gunmakers art doesn't exist in a production firearm. The same is true of the little 1885 in 45 Colt. When I starting pricing original '73s & '92s in 44WCF for cowboy action shooting, I found that good examples were far above this working man's budget for a hobby, and "shooters" were in fact, worn out hulks, only an echo of their former selves. In order to play, & compete at a pretty high level (at the time), I went with reproductions that were either new, or like new-in-box. (Except my Colt SAA, which I already owned). And, let's face it, the reproductions of the SAA at the time, were nowhere near the quality of the original. Unlike the Rossi (after a bit of work), or the Uberti rifles.

I've never cared for the '66 or brass framed Henry's... too shiney, nor do I relish the idea of pre-maturely "aging" a firearm.

Looked at the link for the one on Gunbroker and see that it's been bid up over $14K USD... someone wants it... badly! In fact something like 42 bids have already been placed for this special edition. But hey, it's to a .org that's tax deductible! (According to the advertisement).

While the 1885 & 1886 have suffered a few stock dings and scrapes along the way, I'd postulate that they'll long outlive any of the originals, in better shape when they've reached the 100 year mark or well beyond. Simply because they're made of better metals than the originals, all parts included. No, they'll probably never bring the $s that an original will, simply because they aren't... but as shooting examples of the original Winchesters, they'll probably have a longer life span, with many, many years of service ahead of them. And that's what's important to me... as a shooter.

'Sides, I "almost" have enough original mdl 1894/94 Winchesters for my collecting urges... even if some of them are in "shooter" condition!

[cas]

Browning and Miroku aren't Winchester, but then Winchester isn't Winchester. Miroku isn't Winchester they just make better Winchesters than Winchester has in 50 years.

[marlinman93]

It is not where it is made, it is how it it made. Technology is world wide. The same pair of hands can make junk or jewels, depending the desires of their management.

Twenty years from now, the "Winchester" will be valued, simply because it is a Winchester. Where it was made means little a generation later.

I hope I'm around 20 years from now to prove me wrong or right! But I think a "Winchester" built in Japan will always be a 2nd class citizen to any collector in the world. Yes, a good gun can be built anywhere, but it is truly an American thing to want your guns built in America, if you're a collector. To the average shooter, it might not mean the same. But the average shooter wont be buying a $3200 Winchester 1866 clone to go shoot.
People are upset about Winchesters built in Japan still, and that generation has passed since they started doing so. So maybe 2-3 generations from now it might be OK, but not one generation.

[JB]

Browning and Miroku aren't Winchester, but then Winchester isn't Winchester. Miroku isn't Winchester they just make better Winchesters than Winchester has in 50 years.

I'd say your correct. Everyone wants Belgium Brownings, but the Japanese guns are probably made better and stronger.

[Bronco]

I guess I am just not edumaketed I have two Brownchesters, M71 made into a 50-110 with 32" barrel, 86 SRC in 45-70 with a 20" barrel and a Marlin CB in 44 mag with 24" octagonal barrel. All shooters not collectables. When I hold them, shoot them, for me the kewlness factor goes up into the sky. I imagine what it must of been like when they were the most modern thing in firearms. What it must of been like to use them in life back in the day. Kind of put myself into a different time.
But then I am just a simple guy.

John

[marlinman93]

I guess I am just not edumaketed I have two Brownchesters, M71 made into a 50-110 with 32" barrel, 86 SRC in 45-70 with a 20" barrel and a Marlin CB in 44 mag with 24" octagonal barrel. All shooters not collectables. When I hold them, shoot them, for me the kewlness factor goes up into the sky. I imagine what it must of been like when they were the most modern thing in firearms. What it must of been like to use them in life back in the day. Kind of put myself into a different time.
But then I am just a simple guy.

John

I agree!! I've owned unfired commemoratives in the past, and all I wanted to do was fire them! I ended up selling all of them eventually, and couldn't resist firing one! I had one of the Ruger-Lyman #1 Centennials in the case. Loved shooting it, and never regretted firing it. I took good care of it, and when I sold it, I still made money. Not as much as if I'd left it unfired, but I'm happy if I don't lose money on a gun sale!

[KWK]

... Winchester will be offering an 1866 reproduction, fully engraved in 44-40...

I do wish someone would make an 1866 (or a Henry) replica of the proper proportions. The .44-40 requires the receiver to be too long. How about one in .45 Auto or Auto Rim, please.

[Malamute]

I agree!! I've owned unfired commemoratives in the past, and all I wanted to do was fire them! I ended up selling all of them eventually, and couldn't resist firing one! I had one of the Ruger-Lyman #1 Centennials in the case. Loved shooting it, and never regretted firing it. I took good care of it, and when I sold it, I still made money. Not as much as if I'd left it unfired, but I'm happy if I don't lose money on a gun sale!

I've shot several NIB Winchester commemoratives. They were versions with 26" octagon barrels, and rifle trim, several of the Canadian Centennials and one or two Buffalo Bills. There wasn't any practical way to get that condition of older original 94s for shooting for anywhere near the money. I don't regret shooting any of them. Whatever small difference in lost value when I sold them was worthwhile for the enjoyment of owning and shooting them at the time. Despite some comments online about commemoratives being worth less than standard models of the same period if fired, I never found that to be the case. Some lowering of value, nothing like some claim. I'd like to know where all the giveaway priced used commemorative rifles are languishing around unloved and unappreciated.

[marlinman93]

Unsure how commemoratives stack up today, but I gave up on them as investment arms decades ago! I found them to be very inexpensive, and as you mentioned, cheaper than standard arms, even NIB 30 years ago! I remember buying a Legendary Frontiersman .38-55 for $400 NIB, and 10 years later I decided I wanted to pass it along, and couldn't find a buyer at $500. I eventually dropped the price back to my purchase price of $400, and still couldn't find a buyer. Finally I got lucky and traded it to a guy for a 1893 Marlin in .38-55, which was higher priced; so I was tickled to do the trade!

[OD#3]

Miroku is to firearms what the classic American names in guns used to be. There was a time when the "Colt" , "Smith & Wesson", and "Winchester" trademarks were all one needed to see to be satisfied that the firearm in question was of the highest quality. People could argue about the merits of each manufacturer's design, but the execution was always first-rate. Since then, Colt and S&W have had their ups and downs, and Winchester suffered declining quality before eventually going defunct as a manufacturer. Every Miroku I've had the pleasure of handling has been top notch, and I now own four--a used 1886, used 1892, used 1895, and a new 1873. As far as I'm concerned, any new Miroku-made firearm could just leave out the "Browning" or "Winchester" trademark. When I see " Miroku", on a firearm, quality is assured.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

I'll never own one....

I own three. I own them for one reason.

They are rifles models that I love, but that I cannot practically buy originals of and use hard like I do these three. They are of the highest quality, better than most Italian clones, while falling a bit short of the fine hand-polish of the originals. They allow me to really use and enjoy the rifles that I like, without having to beat up originals, which can be given lighter use. Makes sense to me.

I used to own a made in Japan winchester for the same reason ... I loved the 218 Bee but I couldn't really stomach an original model 65 in Bee. As 7.62 notes, the Japanese make a pretty high quality reproduction. I dumped it after I got over the Bee. When I was young (in the 70's) I recall my grandfather berating my father for buying a Japanese made camera ... all the rage back then I suppose. Some of the things he said at that time about serving in the Pacific theater have apparently stuck with me.