Killing Formulas / How much is enough?

[kmittleman]

Hey folks,


I'm planning on picking up a Ruger BH in .41 mag in a month or so. I reload and plan on working up some loads for whitetail and hogs. However, I keep wondering, "How much is enough"? I've read through and tried out numerous killing formulas only to be told that they're imperfect and inaccurate. Well, that makes sense. Also, everyone tells me that, "it's all about bullet placement". Ok, I agree. However, in the same breath I'll be told that such and such caliber / load (ie. .357 mag in a handgun) is "marginal" for hunting. I've hunted with shotguns, muzzleloaders, rifles, and crossbows, but not handguns.

My question is, how do I know if my load will be reasonable for deer and hogs? My plan is to shoot no further than 50yds and hopefully have enough power that I can shoot broadside, quartering away/to, etc.

Any advice? Any ballpark numbers I can look at?


-Kevin

[El Chivo]

I did seem to hear that most 41 mag bullets are light for caliber, i.e., collar buttons. So that might have something to do with penetration. Consider the Barnes XPB, tests have shown them to be excellent penetrators when compared to lead and, being lighter, can get you a little more velocity. Or look for a heavier lead bullet.

I don't think you'll have any problems within 50 yards whatever you use.

[guido4198]

Bullet choice is ALWAYS a critical factor when you're hunting larger game with a handgun. I've been doing it since the 1980's. One of my trips to Africa back in the day, was handguns only, and a .41 mag. was in my 3-gun battery. The .41 mag is an excellent choice. A good quality wide meplat hard cast is a good option. SOME of the JSP bullets out there are also good. I hunt with 210-225gn weight range slugs, some like larger. You'll have to figure out what works for you and your weapon. The MOST important factor in whether or not you are going to be successful is YOUR ABILITY, and staying within your own limits. You owe it to your quarry to show some discipline. If you can't shoot accurately beyond 25 yds....don't take a shot any farther. PERIOD. If you can reliably make a 50 yd shot, then go for it. YOU have to know your skill level, and show a little class by staying within your own limits. Over the years...My general observation has been that for the most part, folks who choose to hunt with a handgun understand these points, and are considerably more highly disciplined than the run-of-the-mill rifle hunter. In the 80's I hunted with iron sights. As my eyes have aged, I've found that a red dot sight allows me to keep shooting at an accuracy level that meets my needs.

[stretch]

I'm thinkin' 41 Mag is enough for hogs or whitetail at 50 yards or less.

I'd be comfortable with that round on deer regardless of the shot to the
torso I was presented - quartering away, towards, or head-on. I personally
wouldn't try a neck shot at that range - but that's my limitation. Your
skillset may vary.

I have no experience on how tough hogs are on a quartering towards shot.
Paco's written that up in one of his articles on this site. I think he used a
factory 210 gr. load that worked just fine.

I own a Super Blackhawk in 41 Mag. It's accurate enough, but I seem
to consistently push shots a couple of inches left - something I don't
seem to do with any other guns. I'm thinkin' I need some new grips.
(Suggestions welcome, gents! Did I ask this question before on this forum?!?)
Other than that, it's a fine weapon for what you have in mind.

I recovered a 210gr. Speer Gold Dot HP from a wet clay bank shot at
50 yards. I believe the load was 18.5 gr. of 2400. It expanded
impressively and retained about 190 gr. of weight. I'm confident of
no problems with whitetail using that load.

There are some really heavy (260 gr.?) cast bullets out there for the
41 Mag. I'd think that loaded up to max gross weight they'd go through
a hog end-to-end if you had a mind to try that.

-Stretch

[86er]

I've got a "killing formula", known as the JAR Factor in my book, Hunting the Introduced Species in the United States.

A bunch of contractual stuff prohibits me from publically disclosing the formula. Anyway, the formula is based on rifle cartridges but can be converted to account for the velocity of the handgun. If you know what you are going to shoot (game) and approximately how far the shot will be the formula will give you a bullet weight with a traditional cup and core bullet or cast and another bullet weight if you use a premium controlled expansion bullet or wide metplat hardcast bullet. Using your basic information you provided, if your deer and hogs are 200 pounds, the muzzle velocity is 1000 fps and the range is up to 100 yards the formula says you will need a premium bullet of at least 186 grains. What this really means is that if you shoot a bullet of 186 grains or more at 1000 fps at a 200 pound animal up to 100 yards there are statistically significant odds (more than 55%) that your bullet will penetrate through the vitals on a broadside shot and result in a dead animal. The formula is based on analysis of over 3000 shots at animals with a huge variety of calibers, bullets and shot distances. It tells you a reasonable minimum to work with to stack the odds in your favor. You can also run the formula backwards. That is, tell the formula what bullet weight and shot range, type of bullet and adjust for velocity and the forumla will tell you (with regard to 41 Mag handgun) that is you use a 210 grain premium bullet at 1200 fps you should be good up to 100 yard on game up to 244 pounds. Again, that means the odds are better than 50% that you will penetrate through the vitals on a broadside shot.

If you don't like number crunching, John C. Clark and I have a booklet titled 1000 Tags Filled. You can find your cartridge and bullet weight and see what happened when game was shot with it, or you can pluck similar ballistics from other cartridges and draw a conclusion. Offhand, I see that a 225 gr or 240 gr bullet would result in a pass-through on lung and shoulder shots out to 120 yards on deer and hog sized stuff. Further out the results are more inconsistent but that is not to say it won't work or shouldnt be attempted if you are confident.

Best of luck with your handgun hunting!

Joe

[madman4570]

Just get the Ruger in .44Mag and not have that concern!

All kidding aside,that .41Mag is a fine Caliber and that Ruger BH is a fine gun.
No problem for deer! Good Luck!

[JBledsoe]

.

Gun writers often run out of new ideas for their work so they concoct all these formulas for killing, knock-down, retained energy, and the list goes on to the absurd. Formulas are fun for entertainment and something to do when there is nothing else but most are worthless. "Knock down power" means nothing and is another myth. Rifle and handgun bullets cannot knock down a deer, hog, cat, or other large game. Retained energy is a misconception based on a flawed formula for foot pounds. A bullet has no energy, it has momentum.

To answer your question, a heavy for caliber (250 gr. or so ) hard cast bullet at a velocity of 1500 fps (no more than 1600) will do a pass thru on a deer or hog from any angle. Hodgdon's says that 18.5 to 21 grains of H-110 will drive a 245 grain .410 handgun cast bullet at 1400 to 1550 fps. Good enough.

.

[Canuck Bob]

Round ball muzzleloaders are always faced with the reality that thier projectiles are sadly lacking in most modern ways. However they perform well in the field. I've never used a 41 Mag but they seem like a deer round to me. As always the proper bullet within a sensible range. They sure seem to develop more power than a 38-40 and handloaded in a strong 92 it is a fine deer cartridge.

[Lobo]

A little Paco Kelly to spice up the day.

http://fiveshot.org/backissues/paco/heavy41.htm

http://fiveshot.org/backissues/paco/mmagnum6.htm

[J Miller]

Too much thinking, not enough shooting. Go get your 41 Mag, load it with good accurate ammo and get to practicing. If you can put the bullet where it needs to go, you got a dead critter.

I guess I'm a bit simplistic today, but the 41 mag from a handgun will have more oomph than a 38-40 from a lever gun and look at how many animals that one has killed.
It's not the gun, it's the shooter.

JMHO

Joe

[tman]

I consider my self well heeld with a .357 180 hardcast and you have more power than that. Shot placement, as others have said. Good Hunting!

[piller]

Wow, I thought that you needed the latest eargashplitten loudenboomer double Magnum just to kill the deer of today.

Seriously, if you compare that .41 Mag to most of the calibers less than .45-70 from the 1800s, it stacks up pretty well.

[Hobie]

Too much thinking, not enough shooting. Go get your 41 Mag, load it with good accurate ammo and get to practicing. If you can put the bullet where it needs to go, you got a dead critter.

I guess I'm a bit simplistic today, but the 41 mag from a handgun will have more oomph than a 38-40 from a lever gun and look at how many animals that one has killed.
It's not the gun, it's the shooter.

JMHO

Joe

Amen.

[BAGTIC]

How much do you really need? About half what most of the formulas claim.