Got a hankering to get a nice Winchester 1894, hopefully in the 1895 to 1908 or so time frame. Also hopefully in .30WCF. I want full octagon, 26" barrel and to be all original.
What are some of the details that I should hone in on when looking at these?
1) What year did Winchester quit the V type checkering on the hammer?
2) What particulars are there to having the patent date on the rear sight?
3) When did they change the tang marking from saying the patent date and go to saying "TRADEMARK"?
I know Marlin FAIRLY well, not great but fair. I know virtually nothing about Winchesters.
Could you guys help me out by educating me on some of the major things to look for. When I buy one I want it to be all authentic and original. Finish means less to me than shootability and authenticity!!
FILL ME IN PLEASE!!! Also, what is the ONE best book to buy about older Winchesters, something that would equate to Brophy's book on Marlins?
Thanking you all in advance!
Geoff
WIN1894/ MIKE D. OR OTHER WINCHESTER EXPERTS
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Re: WIN1894/ MIKE D. OR OTHER WINCHESTER EXPERTS
BTT
Still hoping Mike D. etc... will help me out on this.
How about you SIXGUN?? You know a thing or two about Winchesters!
Geoff
Still hoping Mike D. etc... will help me out on this.
How about you SIXGUN?? You know a thing or two about Winchesters!
Geoff
Re: WIN1894/ MIKE D. OR OTHER WINCHESTER EXPERTS
Geoff, I am by no stretch of the imagination an "expert" on any model of Winchesters, least of all the 1894. Others have done a lot of homework on this model, and new facts concerning dates of manufacture have come to light. Hopefully, I can offer a few answers to some of your questions.
The early, hammer knurling with the V border disappeared by serial number 200,000
I am uncertain about patent dates on rear sights, and unaware of any significance.
The patent date upper tang markings were of two types, but the difference is negligible. The patent dates were gone by serial number 250,000.
The fact that you have chosen the commonest caliber and rifle barrel type should help considerably in your search. Expect to pay a premium for 1894s made prior to 31 december 1898. The last "antique" serial number is 53,941. Cody has records for the 1894 from serial number 1-353,999, with a few missing here and there. Of those guns roughly half were caliber .30. The gun you are describing will probably fall into the letterable category, so don't waste time looking for one. They are rising in value almost daily. Fortunately, there are plenty of them to go around, but they ain't cheap no more.
The early, hammer knurling with the V border disappeared by serial number 200,000
I am uncertain about patent dates on rear sights, and unaware of any significance.
The patent date upper tang markings were of two types, but the difference is negligible. The patent dates were gone by serial number 250,000.
The fact that you have chosen the commonest caliber and rifle barrel type should help considerably in your search. Expect to pay a premium for 1894s made prior to 31 december 1898. The last "antique" serial number is 53,941. Cody has records for the 1894 from serial number 1-353,999, with a few missing here and there. Of those guns roughly half were caliber .30. The gun you are describing will probably fall into the letterable category, so don't waste time looking for one. They are rising in value almost daily. Fortunately, there are plenty of them to go around, but they ain't cheap no more.
"Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale, and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled or hanged"....President Abraham Lincoln
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kimwcook
- Advanced Levergunner
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Re: WIN1894/ MIKE D. OR OTHER WINCHESTER EXPERTS
I found one the other day numbering 135,XXX something. It was in fairly poor shape except for the bore. It looked good. As stated it was in pretty poor shape. Stocks, mag tube would have to be replaced. No rear sight. But, it appeared to cycle right. I asked the clerk what year it was made and read him the serial number. He went looking in some book and said 1898. They wanted $700. I started adding up the costs for what would end up just a shooter and decided it was too spendy. Maybe I was wrong.
Old Law Dawg
Re: WIN1894/ MIKE D. OR OTHER WINCHESTER EXPERTS
Kim, most published manufacturing dates for the Model 1894 Winchester differ considerably from those of the Winchester Polishing Room. Those records, which date serial numbers applied to receivers, show 135,XXX to actually be produced in 1901. To be recognised by the ATF as an antique the gun must have a number below 53,941. That was the last 1894 receiver numbered on 31 december 1898. I know that it is a fine line, but technically, the next number falls in the "modern" category.
"Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale, and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled or hanged"....President Abraham Lincoln
Re: WIN1894/ MIKE D. OR OTHER WINCHESTER EXPERTS
Mike D.,
Hey thanks for the great info. It sure is fun learning about these old guns!!
Like KWCook said, over on Gunbroker there sure is a ton of confusion regarding dates of manufacture. Even my little Madis dates of manufacture book shows discrepancy regarding the 1898 date.
You helped me a lot, with the serial number breaks regarding the checkering on the hammer etc.....
Mike, would you do me a favor and maybe go over to gunbroker and find a speciman of the 1894 Winchester that looks ALL ORIGINAL to you for this timeframe, say 1895 to early 1900's, regarding sights, markings etc.... and let me know the number of that auction so I can study that gun and memorize the details so I'll be better informed. I'm not in a hurry to do this purchase, but I'll have time to get better informed.
The overall objective for this rifle is combination of joy of owning a sweet old rifle and shooting lever silhouette with it. My desire is to compare the Winnie with other guns that I do this with.
Thanks again for your help sir! ( what do you mean you are not a Winchester expert????????????????)
Geoff
Hey thanks for the great info. It sure is fun learning about these old guns!!
Like KWCook said, over on Gunbroker there sure is a ton of confusion regarding dates of manufacture. Even my little Madis dates of manufacture book shows discrepancy regarding the 1898 date.
You helped me a lot, with the serial number breaks regarding the checkering on the hammer etc.....
Mike, would you do me a favor and maybe go over to gunbroker and find a speciman of the 1894 Winchester that looks ALL ORIGINAL to you for this timeframe, say 1895 to early 1900's, regarding sights, markings etc.... and let me know the number of that auction so I can study that gun and memorize the details so I'll be better informed. I'm not in a hurry to do this purchase, but I'll have time to get better informed.
The overall objective for this rifle is combination of joy of owning a sweet old rifle and shooting lever silhouette with it. My desire is to compare the Winnie with other guns that I do this with.
Thanks again for your help sir! ( what do you mean you are not a Winchester expert????????????????)
Geoff