Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
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Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
We have had a couple of posts on favorite cartridges...how about LEAST favorite cartridges?? Now, i know that if your least favorite cartridge is someone elses favorite it may cause some difficult feelings, kind of like telling a dog owner you dont like dogs, or telling someone their kid is a brat... so lets keep it civil and realize "different strokes for different folks". Now by least favorite take it how you want....most overrated, or just a cartridge whose existance you dont understand, or a cartridge that never 'did" it for you. I'll start.... while I dont like or see the need for any of those wsssm or however many s's there are in them now, my all time most boring cartridge is probably the .270. I know it is good, I know it does the job, i know it is accurate...but I cant understand it. Came out at a time when most people could only afford one gun to do everything. Well, the 30-06 was around then...that can do it all. If i wanted a necked down '06 (for whatever reason) I'd go to the 25-06. Just dont understand the .270. Never liked them, never wanted one, if I got one it would be sold before I shot it.
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Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
Least favorite ................... ummmm, well, ahh, hmmmmm. You got me. I have a limited number of cartridges I like, but I can't say which is my least favorite.
Joe
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Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
No such thing as a least favorite. If it'll go in a gun and go bang and propell a projectile down range, it's ok by me.
Danged if I'll tell a guy that his favorite cartidge doesn't measure up to my standards.
Danged if I'll tell a guy that his favorite cartidge doesn't measure up to my standards.
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Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
Obviously, that list is long and well populated with cartridges I DON'T own!
Griff,
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Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
Could never warm up to the .270 either.
The .243 is another one I never understood the hype. Especially since I have a 250-3000 and 257 Roberts.
jb
The .243 is another one I never understood the hype. Especially since I have a 250-3000 and 257 Roberts.
jb
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Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
Not me , I think the .30-06 is the oddball and the .270 should have come first. I have a little 22" barrel Ruger #1 in .270 that has harvested my largest deer. Each to his own I guess.
Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
My least favorite would have to be the 22 Savage High Power, .227-.228 bullets.
but I plan to remedy that with the new mould I just got in. Now I have to complete
the Savage 99 and fire the 120 rounds of old factory ammo first.
but I plan to remedy that with the new mould I just got in. Now I have to complete
the Savage 99 and fire the 120 rounds of old factory ammo first.
KI6WZU
NRA member
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Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
.25 ACP
Kind regards,
Tycer
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Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
[heresy ON]
How about the .32-20 ?
The guns are nice, and the ballistics impressive, but the brass is TOO DURNED THIN...
[/heresy OFF]
...not that I plan on parting with MY .32-20's though...
How about the .32-20 ?
The guns are nice, and the ballistics impressive, but the brass is TOO DURNED THIN...
[/heresy OFF]
...not that I plan on parting with MY .32-20's though...
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"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
7.62x39
Jeepnik AKA "Old Eyes"
"Go low, go slow and preferably in the dark" The old Sarge (he was maybe 24.
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"Go low, go slow and preferably in the dark" The old Sarge (he was maybe 24.
"Freedom is never more that a generation from extinction" Ronald Reagan
"Every man should have at least one good rifle and know how to use it" Dad
Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
Short magnums, Weatherby magnums, especially .30 and smaller caliber "magnums".
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
for me it is the 44 Mag. I have no good reason. I just do not get the least bit excited over it. I think maybe it is because it got way over exposed with all the Dirty Harry hype. No offense to all the guys here who own and love their 44's.
Always Drink Upstream From The Herd
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Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
That would be the 32-20 for me..........Sorry, I know lots of folks like it, but I can find no shine on it.
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Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
there is too many to list. Pick any out side of .22, .357, .429, .45-70, 30-30, 470 nitro, .375 H&H - I just can't excited about any of the other cartridges, perhaps since I don't own a rifle or pistol in any other cartridge.
Mike Johnson,
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Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
+1jeepnik wrote:7.62x39
Jeremy
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To err is human, To forgive is devine, Neither of which is Marine Corps policy
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Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
308 - except for my 88 - in my experience they are finicky and not particularly accurate in hunting rifles.
AND, in my 88 they are very finicky but I have found what shoots in it and I got it NIB 20 years ago.
AND, in my 88 they are very finicky but I have found what shoots in it and I got it NIB 20 years ago.
Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
I agree with the guy above, the .44 Magnum. Sorry Elmer Keith. I'm probably wimpy but I hate the recoil and muzzle blast of a .44 Mag in a revolver, I just don't shoot them well at all. I get caught without ear protection a lot and don't like a loud pistol much. Bought an S&W 29 with 8 3/8" barrel back when I was 16 years old in 1979. I was infatuated with it and shot it so much I had to send it back to Smith & Wession to get redone. So, it's not that I haven't given it a fair trial. Finally sold the 29 a couple of years ago and HAVEN'T MISSED IT A BIT!! Also had a Super BlackHawk, sold it years ago too.
The .44 Mag in a rifle is a different story.
Just my thoughts and certainly to each his own!
Geoff
The .44 Mag in a rifle is a different story.
Just my thoughts and certainly to each his own!
Geoff
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Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
Anything with heavy recoil.
What? You guys don't like the .30-30 Rimless?JReed wrote:+1jeepnik wrote:7.62x39
Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits.
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Proverbs 3:5; Philippians 4:13
Got to have a Jones for this
Jones for that
This running with the Joneses boy
Just ain't where it's at
-Mark Twain
Proverbs 3:5; Philippians 4:13
Got to have a Jones for this
Jones for that
This running with the Joneses boy
Just ain't where it's at
Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
Well lets see I gotta add another vote for the 7.62x39 . Never owned one and doubt if I ever will !
The 223 REM , 308 WIN and 30-06 have never been in favor with me either !
I've "owned" plenty 223's and 308's and usually they shot great . Just never really cared for either !
The 06 just never turned me on shall we say !
And thats not to say I might not get another 223 , 308 or 06 .
Now with that being said I like ALL of the cartridges built on the 06 case and just about all of the cartridges made from the 308 case (not crazy about the 358 WIN) .
As for the 223 , for wha I'd use that for I prefer the even older 222 REM or the newer 204 Ruger . And if I have centerfire 22 work at a longer range I prefer to go with a 220 Swift or 22-250AI .
There's alot of folks here who don't like the short mags and super short mags ! And I certainly cannot agree with them ! I've gotten so I like just about ALL of these cartridges
The 223 REM , 308 WIN and 30-06 have never been in favor with me either !
I've "owned" plenty 223's and 308's and usually they shot great . Just never really cared for either !
The 06 just never turned me on shall we say !
And thats not to say I might not get another 223 , 308 or 06 .
Now with that being said I like ALL of the cartridges built on the 06 case and just about all of the cartridges made from the 308 case (not crazy about the 358 WIN) .
As for the 223 , for wha I'd use that for I prefer the even older 222 REM or the newer 204 Ruger . And if I have centerfire 22 work at a longer range I prefer to go with a 220 Swift or 22-250AI .
There's alot of folks here who don't like the short mags and super short mags ! And I certainly cannot agree with them ! I've gotten so I like just about ALL of these cartridges
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
For me it's the 7mm Magnum. The only magnum rifle I ever owned. Too long, too loud and overkill in the Tennessee woods I hunt.
Derek aka "shootnfan"
Middle Tennessee
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Middle Tennessee
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Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
.223 is what I really dislike. My time with one of the Army's Mattel Toys was not fun. Pop, then the strange spring sound.
D. Brian Casady
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- El Chivo
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Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
SJPrice wrote:for me it is the 44 Mag. I have no good reason. I just do not get the least bit excited over it. I think maybe it is because it got way over exposed with all the Dirty Harry hype. No offense to all the guys here who own and love their 44's.
+1
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Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
Yep. Why not just use a 22lr?Tycer wrote:.25 ACP
Or, how about one of the three billion different 9mm cartridges, such as .356TSW? Many of them came and went, and probably aren't even remembered.
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Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
+1 +1TedH wrote:+1 Although I do own one.Tycer wrote:.25 ACP
Got one, and it is probably my least favorite. Expensive, wimpy, better than nothing but not much. I think guns in this caliber give their owners too much confidence...
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Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
I imagine the reason for that may have more to do with having them sent you way in anger, rather than their performance...JReed wrote:+1jeepnik wrote:7.62x39
- AJMD429
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Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
Gotta not at the 7.62x39, and maybe add some like the .44-40, because they 'almost' use standard .308 or .429 bullets, but not quite... so you have to slug your gun (I'm talking non-communist-bloc guns like the Ranch Rifle for the 7.62) to figure out what in heck it will shoot best.
And I'm not sure the 7mm Magnum is enough faster than the 280 Rem for all the noise and powder use...
And I'm not sure the 7mm Magnum is enough faster than the 280 Rem for all the noise and powder use...
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
25acp, 380, 9mm, and wssm in anything.
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Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
OK I'll wade in. .......................... 30 carbine .
Worthless little cartridge. My dad told stories of the south pacific (he was a CB) of the Japs taking shots to
the chest with no effect. They threw carbines into the ocean as soon as something better was found. He managed
to get a Navy issue 1928 Thompson . Now there was a weapon.
A friend has one I've shot and reloaded for extensively. Shooting anything is fun ...... but it is still a worthless cartridge.
On further reflection Ruger chambered their Blackhawk in 30 carbine. That might be fun.
Did hear though it had a terrible muzzle blast.
And what does it do you can't do with a 357 mag.
I stick with my first thought ................ 30 carbine ........ worthless.
Worthless little cartridge. My dad told stories of the south pacific (he was a CB) of the Japs taking shots to
the chest with no effect. They threw carbines into the ocean as soon as something better was found. He managed
to get a Navy issue 1928 Thompson . Now there was a weapon.
A friend has one I've shot and reloaded for extensively. Shooting anything is fun ...... but it is still a worthless cartridge.
On further reflection Ruger chambered their Blackhawk in 30 carbine. That might be fun.
Did hear though it had a terrible muzzle blast.
And what does it do you can't do with a 357 mag.
I stick with my first thought ................ 30 carbine ........ worthless.
"Any man who covers his face and packs a gun is a legitimate target for any decent citizen"
Jeff Cooper
Jeff Cooper
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Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
Sometimes I can be a real Bonehead.
I just got done trashin the 30 Carbine and here JBCABLE has one for sale over in classified.
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =2&t=13528
Sorry Cable ....meant no offense.
I just got done trashin the 30 Carbine and here JBCABLE has one for sale over in classified.
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =2&t=13528
Sorry Cable ....meant no offense.
"Any man who covers his face and packs a gun is a legitimate target for any decent citizen"
Jeff Cooper
Jeff Cooper
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Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
Its all good........I've never had a bad piece of pie.
- Streetstar
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Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
I will use the ,30 cal designation as my victim, but the same applies to 7mm and 338 as well.
What does a .30-378 WBY or a .300 RUM (or any number of "hot as Bo Derek" .300 mags like the Lazzeroni and Dakota cartridges) do that can't be done with a .300 WBY Mag or even a .300 Norma or H&H Mag for that matter?
I guess the boutique magnums bug me as well. I like the 300 wby, which has been around 50 -some years and the H&H, which has been around longer --- but the rest --------- why?
As for the short mags --- again, whats being done with those that can't be done with an '06
What does a .30-378 WBY or a .300 RUM (or any number of "hot as Bo Derek" .300 mags like the Lazzeroni and Dakota cartridges) do that can't be done with a .300 WBY Mag or even a .300 Norma or H&H Mag for that matter?
I guess the boutique magnums bug me as well. I like the 300 wby, which has been around 50 -some years and the H&H, which has been around longer --- but the rest --------- why?
As for the short mags --- again, whats being done with those that can't be done with an '06
----- Doug
Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
I look upon caution at the 243. The way I see it, the round is not really really good at anything.... too much for my type of varmints and too little for big game... I will say to its supporters, I have seen it kill a few black bear and an untold # of deer...
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid" - Han Solo, Star Wars...
Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
Hard question. Of the cartridges that I have shot I would have to go with the 25 ACP. Of those I haven't (but would like to) I think the Tround to be odd to the point of worthless.
Of those already mentioned, but I can't figure out why: I love the '06 and really like the 7.62x39. The '06 (03-A3) brought me my first deer and the 7.62x39 my biggest.
PaperPatch: love that sigline. Mekka-lekka hi mekka chahney ho!
Of those already mentioned, but I can't figure out why: I love the '06 and really like the 7.62x39. The '06 (03-A3) brought me my first deer and the 7.62x39 my biggest.
PaperPatch: love that sigline. Mekka-lekka hi mekka chahney ho!
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Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
I have favored the bigger bores mostly. 30 caliber is the smallest I want, preferring the .348, the .35, the .358, the .405, the 45-70. I've killed several deer with the 30-30, no problems there. But I detest the notion of a .243, or a .270 and their little brothers and sisters getting into my safe. I do appreciate my .300 Win Mag.
To hell with them fellas, buzzards gotta eat same as the worms.
Outlaw Josey Wales
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Outlaw Josey Wales
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Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
9mm, 380, 25ACP and the 30-30. I've never been able to warm up to the 30-30. Shot it in a Winchester 94 carbine and the recoil was painful. Crazy thing is, I have a soft spot for the 25-35 because of the rifle my grandfather had.
I guess I don't really care for the 7.62 Russian Rimmed, 7.7 Jap or the 6.5 Jap. I also have bland feelings towards more than a handful of European pistol rounds. Chambered in interesting pistols, but the calibers were underwhelming
I guess I don't really care for the 7.62 Russian Rimmed, 7.7 Jap or the 6.5 Jap. I also have bland feelings towards more than a handful of European pistol rounds. Chambered in interesting pistols, but the calibers were underwhelming
I am American
Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
243, I've owned two so I know what they can and can't do.
I took some large deer with them and some way out varmints but I just don't seem to like it somehow.
I think ,,, oh I dun know...
Nath.
I took some large deer with them and some way out varmints but I just don't seem to like it somehow.
I think ,,, oh I dun know...
Nath.
Psalm ch8.
Because I wish I could!
Because I wish I could!
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Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
bruce, if that threat arises - I am there for you - send the offending rifle to me.
Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
From a professional persepctive it's the 243 Win. Clients show up with rifles in this caliber fairly frequently but actually I've seen less in the past 3 years than prior. The casual hunter that is not a passionate rifleman often does not understand that good bullets designed for big game are needed. On the other hand I've had seasoned hunters with heaps of experience over-rate the cartridges capabilities, thinking it will be fine on animals over 300 pounds (and particularly with Western world anatomy). Sure you could kill an elk with good bullets, perfect shot placement and close range. However, the odds are not favorable if the bullets are less than premium, shot is not perfect (especially not a full on broadside shot) and/or the range is over 100 yds. Worse is when kids are given a 243 Win rifle and the shooting is at game they are not familiar with combined with shooting offhand or off sticks. Maybe exotics are not given proper respect. I have seen wounded and had to chase more animals shot with a 243 Win than anything else. It might be out of the norm for regular season native game hunting, but for exotic hunting I can't stand to see someone bring that caliber! It seems with smaller, lesser calibers or larger calibers people have a proper perspective of what they are dealing with, but with 243 Win it is so often exaggerated.
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Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
Any cartridge invented after 1899.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
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cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
You get that way being on the receiving end.awp101 wrote:Anything with heavy recoil.
What? You guys don't like the .30-30 Rimless?JReed wrote:+1jeepnik wrote:7.62x39
Jeepnik AKA "Old Eyes"
"Go low, go slow and preferably in the dark" The old Sarge (he was maybe 24.
"Freedom is never more that a generation from extinction" Ronald Reagan
"Every man should have at least one good rifle and know how to use it" Dad
"Go low, go slow and preferably in the dark" The old Sarge (he was maybe 24.
"Freedom is never more that a generation from extinction" Ronald Reagan
"Every man should have at least one good rifle and know how to use it" Dad
Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
Not at me personaly but quite a few friends of mine.Ysabel Kid wrote:I imagine the reason for that may have more to do with having them sent you way in anger, rather than their performance...JReed wrote:+1jeepnik wrote:7.62x39
It is the prefered round of our enemy and makes a distinct sound when fired at you.
Jeremy
GySgt USMC Ret
To err is human, To forgive is devine, Neither of which is Marine Corps policy
Semper Fidelis
GySgt USMC Ret
To err is human, To forgive is devine, Neither of which is Marine Corps policy
Semper Fidelis
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Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
jeepnik, I suspected as much...
Thanks Gunny...JReed wrote:It is the prefered round of our enemy and makes a distinct sound when fired at you.
Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits.
-Mark Twain
Proverbs 3:5; Philippians 4:13
Got to have a Jones for this
Jones for that
This running with the Joneses boy
Just ain't where it's at
-Mark Twain
Proverbs 3:5; Philippians 4:13
Got to have a Jones for this
Jones for that
This running with the Joneses boy
Just ain't where it's at
Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
Any pistol cartridge smaller than .44 except those that are 1/2 the size of a .44. Also mad at 9.3x72R these days for being anemic, obslete, and utilized in so many old school drillings.
Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
Well, I own guns in
22 lr x2
25acp x1
9mm x3
45 acp x3
40S&W x3
357mag x2
44mag x1
.223 x3
7.62X39 x3
7.62x54R x1
5.45.39 x1
.308 x1
30-30 x1
45-70 x3
.30carbine x1
300 Savage x1
I would have to say I love them all for various reasons and applications. My levers, trapdoor are always fun. my ebr's are great. my pistols are funner (funner?) than heck. I would have to say the 300 savage is my least favorite if only cause I have not started reloading for it and the ammo is twice that of my 30-30. I have no real interest at all in Magnum rifles. A Safari is a dream at best and my 45-70s will take anything on this side of the pond.
22 lr x2
25acp x1
9mm x3
45 acp x3
40S&W x3
357mag x2
44mag x1
.223 x3
7.62X39 x3
7.62x54R x1
5.45.39 x1
.308 x1
30-30 x1
45-70 x3
.30carbine x1
300 Savage x1
I would have to say I love them all for various reasons and applications. My levers, trapdoor are always fun. my ebr's are great. my pistols are funner (funner?) than heck. I would have to say the 300 savage is my least favorite if only cause I have not started reloading for it and the ammo is twice that of my 30-30. I have no real interest at all in Magnum rifles. A Safari is a dream at best and my 45-70s will take anything on this side of the pond.
"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are
willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom." - John F. Kennedy
willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom." - John F. Kennedy
- gundownunder
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1449
- Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:02 pm
- Location: Perth. Western Australia
Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
In a word, shotgun.
Those 12 guage shells boot like a mule, run out of legs way too soon and besides, I aint never been able to hit the broad side of anything moving
Those 12 guage shells boot like a mule, run out of legs way too soon and besides, I aint never been able to hit the broad side of anything moving
Bob
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You have got to love democracy-
It lets you choose who your dictator is going to be.
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You have got to love democracy-
It lets you choose who your dictator is going to be.
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Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
coyote nose wrote: . . . I'll start.... while I dont like or see the need for any of those wsssm or however many s's there are in them now, my all time most boring cartridge is probably the .270. I know it is good, I know it does the job, i know it is accurate...but I cant understand it . . . Just dont understand the .270. Never liked them, never wanted one . . .
I understand what you're saying, Rose. However, the .270 Winchester is as popular as it is because of 1) It works, and 2) the single-typewriter efforts of Jack O'Connor. It was Jack's do-all gun, and the subject of much of his writing. Many sportsmen who read Outdoor Life in the 50s and 60s drank Jack's "270 Kool-aid." I used to read my late father's and uncle's back issues that never got thrown away. Jack O'Connor joked that he only ever wrote a dozen articles, and just changed the first and last paragraphs. To a large extent, that's not an exaggeration.
The .270 works because of the sectional density of the .270 diameter bullet and the capacity of the case, which is of course based on the 30-06. I don't own a 270, but I highly respect it.
As for my least favorites, I too agree with Rose that anything ending in "-SM" or "-SSM" is a solution to a non-existant problem. I'll never own one.
Noah
Might as well face it, you're addicted to guns . . .
Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
Too much Eastwood for you young man. Now go to your room and read a book.JReed wrote: Not at me personaly but quite a few friends of mine.
It is the prefered round of our enemy and makes a distinct sound when fired at you.
Jeepnik AKA "Old Eyes"
"Go low, go slow and preferably in the dark" The old Sarge (he was maybe 24.
"Freedom is never more that a generation from extinction" Ronald Reagan
"Every man should have at least one good rifle and know how to use it" Dad
"Go low, go slow and preferably in the dark" The old Sarge (he was maybe 24.
"Freedom is never more that a generation from extinction" Ronald Reagan
"Every man should have at least one good rifle and know how to use it" Dad
Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
Too much Eastwood! No such thing thats like having too many gunsjeepnik wrote:Too much Eastwood for you young man. Now go to your room and read a book.JReed wrote: Not at me personaly but quite a few friends of mine.
It is the prefered round of our enemy and makes a distinct sound when fired at you.
Jeremy
GySgt USMC Ret
To err is human, To forgive is devine, Neither of which is Marine Corps policy
Semper Fidelis
GySgt USMC Ret
To err is human, To forgive is devine, Neither of which is Marine Corps policy
Semper Fidelis
Re: Okay.....LEAST favorite cartridge
Any "new" one that is an equal in performance to the "old" one. All the short mags, for a start. AND, those dang Gummy Tip bullets
The Rotten Fruit Always Hits The Ground First
Proud Life Member Of:
NRA
Second Amendment Foundation
Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms
DAV
Proud Life Member Of:
NRA
Second Amendment Foundation
Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms
DAV