Cast bullet "Bumping"

71fan · Post by **71fan** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:25 pm

I have a new-to-me Marlin 1881 in .40 Marlin (40-65) with a 0.4145" bore. That is a big problem, since the largest diameter 260 gr FP cast bullets available are generally around 0.409. There are also some 41 mag 215 gr SWCs that go up to 0.411.

Even if I could find a bullet the right diameter, I know from research that the loaded cartridges would most likely not chamber, with the throat being too small to handle the larger-than-standard cartridge.

This is a very similar situation as with early Marlin 1893s in 38-55 that go as high as 0.384". It is my assumption that 1-20 or 1-30 tin-lead bullets used with BP in the original loadings bumped up enough to give adequate performance.

So my question is simple: for a non-caster (me), what combination of alloy hardness and smokeless powder would you recommend I try to get the most bump, assuming a 0.409 is the largest bullet I'll be able to find, let alone chamber.

I'm not totally opposed to BP, I just don't have experience with it, and would like to get a good smokeless load first.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:58 pm

I'm not sure of a smokeless powder that will "bump" up a bullet like BP will. But, keeping yer velocity down to about 1400 or less you should be ok if you use that dead-soft lead, or a 30:1 alloy.

I'd write to Accurate Powder folks and ask them for a recommendation. They've been helpful to me in the past in loading smokeless in my .40-90SBN. They recommended 5744, which I'd been using, but they also gave me some data I could sorta hang my hat on while getting a bit more velocity outta my rifle.

cowboykell · Post by **cowboykell** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:55 pm

Smokeless won't "bump up" a bullet, you need the "explosiveness" of black powder. Use the smaller bullet diameter that will chamber, back off 10% on your smokeless powder load and top off the powder charge with shotgun buffer powder. The powder acts like a gas check and shoots great.

Kansas Ed · Post by **Kansas Ed** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:03 pm

My suggestion is this, though you didn't ask for it

but if you can lay your hands on some .411 diameter bullets first and see if they will chamber in a dummy round then you will know how far off you may be on the chamber and throat dimensions. If a .411 won't work, you can try a .408, then a .406...what you should try and determine is if you have enough brass thickness that you could neck turn your brass to compensate for a grossly oversized bullet. We had to do that with the 40-82's and it's worked great. But before we could do that, we had to determine just how much to take off of the brass. That would give you more options than trying to get bullet upset. There are ways to get your bullets sized up...a few thousandths, and if you can get them to chamber you would be better off IMO to go that route. If you want a few bullets to try, I have some at .406, .4085, .410, and .411 I'll send you for trials sake. PM me with your address and I'll send a few of each to you.

Ed

71fan · Post by **71fan** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:44 pm

Thank you all for the replies. Good info...and quick. I'm going to the range tomorrow to generate some brass from factory PMC 260s, which I know are at .406. I don't expect them to shoot worth a darn, but it was almost cheaper to buy the loaded ammo than the brass, and way more fun. Anyway, I should be able to tell a lot from the fire-formed cases, mainly chamber dimensions and case wall thickness, thus answering a few pending questions.

Kansas Ed,
I would like to take you up on your offer but I'll wait and see what tomorrow brings. I don't even have dies ordered yet because I don't know the specifics and whether I'll have to order custom dies. I'm pretty sure the RCBS Cowboy dies are designed for 0.410" bullets which is probably as high as I'll be able to go anyway.

Montana Bullet lists a 300gr (0.410 - 0.412) flat point GC designed for the 405 Win that looks like it would work. It may be on the long end for the 1:20 twist though. I wonder it they'd make me a softer batch without the GC...

Beartooth has four 41 bullets that'll go 0.411 to 0.412, but they are all hard cast GCs too.

The most depressing information I have so far is a Handloader article by Ken Chapman where he had a 0.412 bore '81 and found the only option was to ream the chamber neck

, and made his own custom bullet molds. Cha-ching!! I'll go to BP or duplex loads before I go to that extreme.

Kansas Ed · Post by **Kansas Ed** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:52 pm

Chad, measure the OD and ID of the brass neck after you fire it tomorrow. It should give you some indication on how tight the chamber is.

Ed

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:05 am

Check http://www.buffaloarms.com
They have alot of unordinary stuff for making these old guns shoot.
You might also talk with Dave at MBW and see if he's got some bullets that drop from the mold at your bore diameter. Then you could just pan lube them.
Smokeless will bump up a bullet but it'll leave lead in the throat, just like bp does if the bullet doesn't fit, so it'll be best if you can come up with at least a bore diameter bullet.
Accurate does/did have data available for the 40-65 on their web site.

Lyman's 40-65 dies do the .410 diameter.

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:35 am

I have two rifles that I have regularly shot undersize bullets in. The first is a 38-55 with a .381 groove diameter that I can shoot .379 bullets in accurately (5 shot groups at 100 yards that are less than 3"). The second is a Springfield 45-70 with a .461 groove diameter than I can accurately shoot .457 bullets in (5 shot groups of just over 1" at 100 yards). There are two ways that I do it.

First, you can bump up a bullet provided it is a soft cast bullet and you use SR4759 powder or something with a similar burn rate. That is what I do for my 38-55. The alloy is pure wheel weights or else pure lead with a wee bit of tin added. With this combination, I have not had any leading in my throat or bore and have gotten 5 shot groups of around 2 & 1/2" at 100 yards.

The second option is to use cream of wheat filler, which is what I do for the springfield. My bullets are .004 undersize to the groove diameter and made of pure wheel weights with a wee bit of tin added. Without the cream of wheat filler, I get groups at 100 yards of about 6" and the holes are slightly elliptical, due to wobbling bullets. With the cream of wheat filler, I can get groups of just over 1" at 100 yards. With cream of wheat filler, I use a slower powder which in my case is IMR 3031 and loaded to give traditional BP velocities.

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:37 am

In my search for accuracy with the .40-65 cartridge, I made my own bushing type neck sizing die and used the RCBS expander to just bell the case mouth.

In my Browning 1885 BPCR there was no problem with fitting to the chamber so it came down to bullet pull. five shot 100yd. groups under 1" with the factory tang and globe were the norm (on a good day) after I worked up the load.

You are on the right path. Many try to get these old rifles to shoot without understanding the difficulties involved.
Good luck!

Post by **Old Savage** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:42 am

Now that is curious - does the filler act as a paper patch do you think??

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:15 pm

Mpre likely the filler acts as a gas seal protecting the base of the bullet and making gas cutting on the base and sides of the bullet less of an issue.

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:21 pm

Don McDowell wrote:Mpre likely the filler acts as a gas seal protecting the base of the bullet and making gas cutting on the base and sides of the bullet less of an issue.

I think Don is right on the money.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:40 pm

How about trying a paper patch?

71fan · Post by **71fan** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:20 am

Now I'm scratching my head...

Before firing, the neck is 0.426"
After firing, the neck is 0.4265"
Inside diameter after firing is 0.4045"
Case wall thickness is 0.011"

It would seem there was no expansion of the case at the neck. There are no signs of gas/fouling on the brass, so it was sealed.

Out of 20 shots of the PMC .406 ammo, at 50 and 100 yards, I only hit 6 on my 14" target, scattered - they certainly were not grouping. I couldn't here them tumbling though.

I guess I have some experimenting to do to figure this one out. I appreciate all of the advice / comments and will be incorporating many of these suggestions into my loads.

Vall (marlinman93) also PM'd me some thoughts, saying he's successfully loaded and chambered 0.412 bullets in his 1881s, using Lyman dies.

So I'll start with Lyman or RCBS Cowboy dies, 411 or 412 soft cast (~ 1:30), and try both with and without COW filler. I just have to decide which powder to use, but most likely 5744 or 4759.

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:42 am

I think 5744 and 4759 are a little too fast for cream of wheat filler. As I mentioned in my earlier post, I prefer to use slower powders like IMR 3031 with cream of wheat filler. This is to keep the pressure down. It never hurts to be cautious. You can either bump up a soft cast bullet with a faster powder, or you can use the COW filler as a gas check and use slower powder. One or the other. Don't use COW with a fast powder.

One thing I did for my 40-82 was to stick my cases in a chuck and file down the outside diameter of the neck, so that I could chamber larger diameter bullets. If you took your case neck wall thickness down to .009, you could chamber a bullet that was .004 larger. Here's a photo of the finished 40-82 cartridges with the reduced neck O.D. That allowed me to chamber .411 diameter bullets (which were significantly oversize for my bore, by the way and, as a result, gave poor accuracy).

71fan · Post by **71fan** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:10 am

KirkD wrote:I think 5744 and 4759 are a little too fast for cream of wheat filler. As I mentioned in my earlier post, I prefer to use slower powders like IMR 3031 with cream of wheat filler. This is to keep the pressure down. It never hurts to be cautious. You can either bump up a soft cast bullet with a faster powder, or you can use the COW filler as a gas check and use slower powder. One or the other. Don't use COW with a fast powder.

OK. I got it. Thank you VERY much for clarifying that for me. I've still got a lot to learn regarding the whats, whens and hows of powders. But don't worry, I have a large and ever-growning reference library so I'll study a bit before I proceed.

Kansas Ed · Post by **Kansas Ed** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:55 pm

Teflon tape wrapping of the bullets helped my 38-72's accuracy immensely.

Ed

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:54 pm

71fan,

I think there might be one thing that nobody has mentioned. Waaaaaaaay back in the days of yore the ammo manufacturers used very soft, the 30-1 alloy you mentioned, hollow based lead bullets.
Between the soft alloy and the hollow bases the bullets would easily bump up to seal the bore and engrave the rifling.
I don't know positively, but if you got any original lead bullet factory ammo I'll bet the bullets are hollow based.
That is why they got away with such a great variation in grove diameters.

Other than getting a custom HB mold built I have no suggestions, this was just an observation I came up with.

Joe

jhrosier · Post by **jhrosier** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:46 pm

71fan,

Lyman has a 412263 bullet mould for the .405 Win that throws a 288 gr bullet.
You could probably stick a shim to the mould face to increase the diameter a bit.
This is a pretty common practice over on the cast boolit forum.
You would then need to outside turn or ream your case necks to make them a bit thinner.
I think that Forster will make a custom sized reamer for any size.

http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/bull ... entryID=68

Jack

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:36 pm

jhrosier , Lots of guys try the shim between the blocks trick but not many report success with that method. You just end up with a out of round bullet that don`t shoot well anyway.
A mold can be lapped out to a larger size by a few thousandths and that does work pretty good.

I think a soft bullet and relatively fast powder is the best bet. Neck turning is also a good way to go once you have a proper bullet.

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:35 pm

I'd have to agree regarding shimming the mould. I think it is a bad idea. I ended up throwing a bunch of those back into my scrap lead box. The cross section of the bullet is oval. Shimming only increases the diameter in one direction and does nothing for the other direction.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:27 pm

I shoot that Lyman bullet in my 405, it drops from the mold at .413. Montana bullet works also sells that bullet cast from hard or soft lead. I also size it down to use in the wifes 40-65 roller and it shoots well.
The hunter 412 300 gr fp's work fair, but do better with you seat the gas check.

You may want to get some of Montana bullet works bullets in .412 or larger diameter, and start with some 5744 powder.
I pulled the bullets from a couple of boxes of the PMC ammo to have the fresh brass , they look to be charged with 4198. They shot terrible and leading was horrific in the .408 groove of the roller.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:11 pm

If you're not in a great hurry I need to run another batch of those lymans from 20-1 I could send you a handful to try. Have a few ready to roll right now, but they are from Lyman #2.

71fan · Post by **71fan** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:03 pm

Don McDowell wrote:If you're not in a great hurry I need to run another batch of those lymans from 20-1 I could send you a handful to try. Have a few ready to roll right now, but they are from Lyman #2.

Don,
Thank you very much for the offer. I may take you up on it later. Ed is sending me some various sizes so I can determine the largest diameter I can chamber. I'd hate for you to send me a bullet I can't chamber. Anyway, I'm not sure I like that roundnose design in the tube magazine and it may be too long. I'll have to do a little research. The '81 is is a bit intolerant of increasing OAL.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:10 am

this is not so much a suggestion as it is a question, but what about swaging existing bullets to the fatter diameter?

would it be possible to buy a swaging die and use it in a regular press, or, maybe rig up a vise to crush them?

TX Gun Runner · Post by **TX Gun Runner** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:51 am

Take your bullet mold to a machine shop and have them chuck it up in 4 jaw chuck and dial it in a lathe and cut only the last band . Remember if you need .008 , only cut .004 because that is .004 from each side . I make all my match mold in a lathe like the one below ...

Kansas Ed · Post by **Kansas Ed** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:38 am

El Chivo wrote:this is not so much a suggestion as it is a question, but what about swaging existing bullets to the fatter diameter?

would it be possible to buy a swaging die and use it in a regular press, or, maybe rig up a vise to crush them?

Some of the bullets I'm sending Chad that was done to. I use a bushing of the ID I'm after, and which is a little shorter than the length of the bullet. I use it on a small arbor press in my garage. They are pretty hard bullets and still swage easily. I'm taking them up about .005" doing it this way, and can do 3-4 bullets a minute without any problem.

Ed

w30wcf · Post by **w30wcf** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:26 am

Kansas Ed wrote:
Some of the bullets I'm sending Chad that was done to. I use a bushing of the ID I'm after, and which is a little shorter than the length of the bullet. I use it on a small arbor press in my garage. They are pretty hard bullets and still swage easily. I'm taking them up about .005" doing it this way, and can do 3-4 bullets a minute without any problem.
Ed

Ed,
Great idea. In the past I have successfully used a "stop" inside of a cartridge case in combination with a seating die to bump up bullets. Here's something I wrote recently about it....
http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/inde ... 035.0.html

w30wcf

w30wcf · Post by **w30wcf** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:46 am

71fan,
I have a '73 Winchester made in 1882 which has a similar bullet / groove diameter to your rifle's.....bullet diameter .428" / groove diameter .433". I purchase that vintage Winchester 10 years ago along with some Winchester Cowboy Ammunition (.428" diameter bullets). My first trip to the range indicated that something was amiss.....all bullets keyholed at 25 yards.
I then slugged the barrel and found out what the problem was.

Since this ammunition would not work in my rifle, I decided to pull the bullets and try using PSB (Poly Shot Buffer) to act as a gas check. I replaced the powder with slower burning 4227 then filled the case with PSB up to 1/2 way up the case neck. What a difference! 5 rounds printed into a 5/8" group @ 25 yards!

The PSB had worked to keep the gases behind the undersized bullet, allowing it to center itself and transverse the oversized barrel undisturbed. Since that time, I have used PSB in a .32-40, .38-40, .45-60 with much less than perfect barrels, and in each case it worked very well.

Good luck,
w30wcf

Kansas Ed · Post by **Kansas Ed** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:19 am

w30wcf,
That's a great idea, and doesn't require any additional outlay to speak of. The arbor press I'm using is one of these..

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... umber=3552

and I've had it for years. I don't use it a lot, but is irreplaceable when I do need it.

Ed

71fan · Post by **71fan** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 5:09 pm

This is great...so much good information and ideas.

OK, so my next step is to confirm my throat size. I'm having a hard time believing the cases didn't expand...but they didn't. If my throat truly is .426", and my bore is .4145, that means I'd have to turn my necks from 0.011 down to 0.007" just to fit a 0.412 bullet. The optimum bullet size of 0.415 would require case walls of 0.0055".

I'm skeptical that either of these wall thickness will perform without splitting

So is there a home-grown way to determing my chamber dimensions at my throat with normal garage tools and supplies? I was thinking of driving an oversize lead fishing weight into the chamber until it barely engages the rifling, which I can measure (distance-wise) with a marked cleaning rod from the breech. Also, a .430 bullet may work as well, which I have plenty of. What do you think?

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:50 pm

You'll be fine with a neck wall thickness of .009, but do not go lower than that or you will eventually have split necks. I'm confident that the shortfall in bullet diameter will be made up for by cream of wheat or poly shot buffer. I use cream of wheat in my springfield to make up the shortfall because it's cheap like borscht, and it works beautifully. If your bullet diameter shortfall is really as bad as your preliminary measurements predict, then I'm skeptical that you will be able to bump up a soft cast bullet sufficiently to get good results, but I'm very confident that COW with the right powder will work nicely. I prefer about 1/2" of COW between the bullet and the powder. That means you need to use a slow enough powder to fill the rest of the case. Hope that makes sense.

Kansas Ed · Post by **Kansas Ed** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:47 pm

+1 on what Kirk relays. My 40-82's are at .008 thick, and after about 4 loadings some are starting to crack at the mouth. Due to the firm crimp I believe, combined with the thin mouth. Though you are using 40-65 brass which is much more plentiful than what I shoot, so it may not matter so much to you especially since you can do 1 stroke of 45-70 brass in your dies and have 40-65 brass. My initial tests with different fillers in the 40-72 also supports his conclusions. Out of a couple of different fillers, and wads I've used, the COW does seem to protect the base, where as wads and conventional loadings tend to lead up. As soon as you get your dies load up some dummy rounds and see which will chamber, then go from there. You may get lucky and only need to take a couple thou off of your brass.

ED

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:04 pm

I hate fillers, mostly because I am a volumn shooter and load just about everything on progressives. The German in me gives me little patience. The Italian in me gives lazyness.

Over the years when encountering rifles with fat bores and skinny chambers, I do one of two things.

1.) order an inside neck reamer from Forster. This may not work in your case.

2.) Shorten the brass and load the fattest bullet the chamber will take. In 38-55's, I use expanded 30-30 brass. These come up short but I just load the bullet out to the proper oal. The "skinny" part of the chamber is usually only the last 1/16"-1/8" or so.

w30wcf · Post by **w30wcf** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:37 pm

Since the .44-40 and some other dash cartridges have necks in the .007" range and, in my experience, some brass can be reloaded up to 10 times with no split necks, while others may last 5 or so reloadings before the neck starts to split, the quality of the brass has a great deal to do with fatigue. I now anneal after 5 reloadings and my brass now seems to last indefinitely................

w30wcf

BAGTIC · Post by **BAGTIC** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 7:52 pm

If your throat is too small get it fixed. Only needs to be done once as opposed to a lifetime of trying to make undersized bullets work.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:39 pm

Chad , you could do a partial chamber/throat cast with cerrosafe. Just cast enough to get a good groove measurement and chamber/throat diameter. Then you'll have a better idea about what you're working with.

otteray · Post by **otteray** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:23 pm

71fan wrote:
The most depressing information I have so far is a Handloader article by Ken Chapman where he had a 0.412 bore '81 and found the only option was to ream the chamber neck , and made his own custom bullet molds. Cha-ching!! I'll go to BP or duplex loads before I go to that extreme.

71fan, Can you make a copy of the article or give me the issue number?

I think my brother, Jim Chapman, in Ann Arbor area (Yipsilanti?) has that rifle, while I have one of Dad's
Marlin 1895 .40-65. Mine uses a gas checked 310 gr. .413" that Bernie Rowles made for me after Ken died.
It shoots better than I can aim when using softer than wheelweight lead!
Ray

71fan · Post by **71fan** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:05 pm

I sure don't want to mess with the throat on this nice old rifle. I'll try very hard to avoid that.

A HUGE thank you to Kansas Ed for the care package he sent me -- THANK YOU ED.

I ordered the dies and some Cerrosafe tonight so I'm on hold until I get that stuff.

71fan · Post by **71fan** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:17 pm

otteray wrote:
71fan wrote:
The most depressing information I have so far is a Handloader article by Ken Chapman where he had a 0.412 bore '81 and found the only option was to ream the chamber neck , and made his own custom bullet molds. Cha-ching!! I'll go to BP or duplex loads before I go to that extreme.
71fan, Can you make a copy of the article or give me the issue number?

I think my brother, Jim Chapman, in Ann Arbor area (Yipsilanti?) has that rifle, while I have one of Dad's
Marlin 1895 .40-65. Mine uses a gas checked 310 gr. .413" that Bernie Rowles made for me after Ken died.
It shoots better than I can aim when using softer than wheelweight lead!
Ray

PM sent. I'm happy to oblige.

I'm interested in your 310 gr. bullets - do you know the twist in the 1895?

Kansas Ed · Post by **Kansas Ed** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:35 pm

You're quite welcome. Glad to be of help. W30wcf sent me a similar care package awhile back that I really appreciated. It's good if we can all support each other in our shooting endeavors. Keep us informed.

Ed

otteray · Post by **otteray** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:23 pm

71fan wrote:
I'm interested in your 310 gr. bullets - do you know the twist in the 1895?

I think the Marlin .40-65, .40-70 and .40-82 are all 1 in 20 twist.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:13 am

Kansas Ed, what's the shipping on a 1 TON Arbor Press?

Kansas Ed · Post by **Kansas Ed** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:11 am

El Chivo wrote:Kansas Ed, what's the shipping on a 1 TON Arbor Press?

LOL...ask Griff....he's in the business.

Ed

71fan · Post by **71fan** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:24 pm

Update:

I made a chamber cast with Cerrosafe tonight, and it confirmed what I already knew - no big revelations, except bore size is even bigger at the breech end.

So the following numbers are pretty solid now, based on a combination of slugging, fire-forming brass, and chamber casting:
Throat: 0.4265"
Bore at breech end: 0.4155"
Bore at muzzle end: 0.4135"
Groove depth: 0.008"

My first 1881 (sold) had a tapered bore so the different bore sizes at muzzle and breech don't surprise me. Obviously when you slug the barrel you'll just get the smallest diameter, but the camber cast shows that there is a taper. (My other '81 tapered from 0.414" to 0.412".)

I'm still waiting on dies, which should come in a couple of days.

To be continued...

KCSO · Post by **KCSO** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 3:25 pm

IF yo cast a soft bullet 30 or 40-1 and use BLACK powder the bullet will bump up and give reasonable accuracy. Smokless powders have not done so well for me in bumping up the slug. What has worked is a hollow base slug, but I don't know who is making a mould like that now. I used a swedging die to put a hollow base in my 45's and had good results shooting these in a trapdoor with a 460 bore. Remember if this is an original rifle the twist is suited to a 260 gran or so bullet and NOT the 330's that follks use now in the 40-65.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:20 pm

Chad it's looking like you're going to need to get a custom mold from Mtn Moulds, or Old West Bullet Moulds.

71fan · Post by **71fan** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:46 pm

Update...

With the bullets Kansas Ed sent me I was able to determine the largest bullet that will chamber is a .407, and that is very tight.

I am ordering a neck cutter and an inside neck reamer from Forster to shave down to ~0.008 neck thickness so I can fit a 0.411 bullet, then Kirk D's COW filler advice will (hopefully) get me up to the ~0.415 bore. I will order up some very soft .411 bullets and see how things go before I invest in a mold.

Wish me luck, and Thanks again to everyone for the advice!

cowboykell · Post by **cowboykell** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:11 pm

Give the shot buffer a try, I think you'll like it a lot better than the COW.

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:34 pm

I'm not sure that an inside neck reamer is any better than an outside neck file (fine file), and the inside neck reamer is a lot more expensive. I've done the outside neck file (put the case in a chuck, spin it up to medium speed, and apply a fine file to the neck, moving the file slowly up and down the neck as the case turns. About a minute of that is all that is needed. I mic the neck thickness to get it down to .010.